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New inventory system > honest opinion and feedback.

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Madner Kami
Durendal Ascending
#281 - 2012-05-24 21:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Madner Kami
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
open cargo, go to the ship bay tab.... ZOMG HARD!!!


So assembled and fitted ships are cargo nowadays? It's counter-intuitive, imo. But even if you dissent on this point, you have to admit, that previously you opened the ship bay right away, if yu wanted to go into the ship bay. Now you have extra clicking to do and that extra clicking sums up pretty fast, if you do more then occasionally change your ship (and I think this applies to pretty much anyones occupation at one point or another - salvagers, industrialists, traders and so on, all of which know what the problem is right there). It slows things down, especially if you just want to get into a specific container of which's existance you are aware, but the system attempts to load any sort of container and it's contents on grid and throws it into your face unfiltered.

If I want to get into the ship bay, I want to get into the ship bay and nowhere else. I do not want to know what's in all the containers around me. I do not need to know which other containers are around at all (though that is handy to have under certain circumstances, I admit that, but if it forces extended loading time on me, then it's a nuisance under pretty much all circumstances, not a help), because I am usually aware of their existance already, either by experience or by overview.

@CCP: So in addition to the already usefull changes from today's patch and hopefully very usefull changes you have on your to-do list already, I also would like to see the tree beeing an optional choice, which you have to conciously make. Only load all containers on grid and their contents, if the tree is opened. Make the added loading time for checking containers available and pre-loading their contents a corner case, not the standard.

Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
and made it back to my orca, the way the inventory is organized doesn't seem hard to figure out at all... maybe slightly annoying if you are opening something from your station's corp hanger and trying to put it into your orcas corp hanger, I can only imagine having a ton of tabs open for that.


Believe it or not, other people work under different circumstances then you do and for those, this inventory system is mostly a burden, not a help. No amount of how usefull it is to you, will change their experience. It would be rather usefull to actually get yourself into their shoes or at least try to emulate and think about it, before posting about how great this new UI is to you. Sad as it may be, but you and the other yeay-sayers are the excemption from the rule. The majority of the players make houndreds, maybe even thousands of inventory-checks per day (inventory-check = opening a container of any sort). Every added click, every unavoidalbe detour, every repositioning or resizing, every unneccessary loading time, is taking time away from their gaming-experience.

Disclaimer: For the record, no I don't think the new system is entirely ****. It's usefull under certain circumstances and if it's improved upon and gets some additional functions (back), it will be really great.
Captain' Jack Sparrow
#282 - 2012-05-24 21:56:08 UTC
If the new inventory system is what new "features" are going to be, then PLEASE STOP GIVING US ANY NEW FEATURES!

The tree must go. NOW! Evil
Cocoro
Berzerks Inc.
#283 - 2012-05-24 22:06:49 UTC
the new inventory system is a drawback.

there was no need to change it. For a producer working at a POS it is a nightmare. Gimme the option to deactivate that ****.

Looks pretty, but sucks ass.
Emiko P'eng
#284 - 2012-05-24 22:17:45 UTC
Overall

No feelings either way over the new Inventory, it easier to use for some things but harder to use for others and of the others POS management is the clincher!

So option 2 please Big smile

CCP Soundwave wrote:
Quick update to the inventory stuff:

Solution two: All POS inventories are put in to trees, so you can open/close whatever subsection of inventories you're currently interacting with.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#285 - 2012-05-25 01:29:22 UTC
I'm very aware of difference between players, but so far nearly every post I've seen has been "WAAAAAH me no likey!"

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
ZhaoMin
Tennyson Court
#286 - 2012-05-25 03:46:04 UTC
We have 15 Eve accounts of which one belongs to my wife. I personally spent 2 years to convince her to try Eve out when back then she was playing other MMO. Our playstyles are rather casual and generally just do some missioning to blow things up and loot / salvage to our hearts' content.

If you don't know yet, the current system simply takes away the fun for our regular activities and turned it into a rather tedious task:
The extra clickings
The extra space occupied by the new inventory window (means less to enjoy the graphics Eve have to had to offer)
The extra time it takes to load any wreck's contents
The extra navigation to loot each wreck

All these extra "work" and time spent are deducted from the pure enjoyments we used to get out of the missioning part and naturally, we decided to spent our limited recreational time with some other game that recently got released starting with "D" and ends with "3". As players, we naturally made a choice once when options became limited and playstyles of which we do not like are forced onto us.

-

I'm a collector type of person, and I love Eve because of its sandbox nature, and the amount of things I can collect and have them show up pretty in my hanger. Once collected, I developed my own workflow to get into manufacturing and trading in order to obtain more items into my collection while sustain my in-game finance.

This new inventory UI is now giving me headaches, due to its nature of flow and presentation. To give the big picture, I have estimated assets value of 50 billion across all my characters, of which only less than 3% are cash. Now that's a lot of assets in items that I need to keep track of that are scattered in more than a hundreds of stations in the Eve Universe, from null to low to high sec, so at my major bases of operation where I have loads of assets to consolidate, now it's a lot longer to even load the items up not to mention to arrange them into categories that caters my needs.

I run personal mining OPs - with Orca of course, some POSes, PI to sustain POS and lots of trading aside from some regular missions and explorations. I run 3 clients simultaneously at least at almost any given moment and so screen estates are extremely valuable to me. Now these ops apart from exploration are severely affected in a negative way.

My personal computer used to run up to 6 clients before lag kicks in due to limited computing power client side, now it barely keeps up 3 clients with the same efficiency and most likely I'd blame that on the extra load the new system seems to cause - hence, server side.

New system is not hard to learn, but unnecessary hassel remains, so for the mean time, I'll simply let my accounts lapse until the situation gets better or a solution offered. I unachored my POS, unrented all corp offices, so no upkeep for me and I can simply decided to start paying again when the time's right.

TL;DR
New System:
lacks the ability to present information flexibly
is a huge resource hog and causes performance issues
lacks the abilityto arrange inventory with heirachy
takes up valuable screen estate
did not consider deep enough on complex workflow and only focused mainly on visual presentation
lacks the ability to turn it into an optional feature
lacks the ability to import/export filters (very important for multiple account holders)
give little incentive for people to run any coorperative contents (Even PVP with carrier refitting on the fly)
on average requires more stress and focus to do large amounts of operations on asset arrangement between entities.

very sleek and streamlined for solo players who has little need to keep non-liquid assets and no set base of operation
easy to hand-on for new players who just started, as it contains familiar interface most modern OSes has to offer visually

Won't consider actively playing and paying in since the enjoyment value per dollar and time put in are significantly lowered.
Large Marg
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#287 - 2012-05-25 04:01:58 UTC
Allow setting so we can pick old style or new.

Heaven help us if you let 3rd party devs make new UI's for everything to give players more freedom.
Bauloe
FBN 4893
#288 - 2012-05-25 04:50:13 UTC
with the shift click option it has made the use of the inventory system just like before. for me
Captain Cheerios
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#289 - 2012-05-25 04:56:46 UTC
I like the UI it is just not finished. Great concept but there are certain areas of functionality that are missing to truely make this a user friendly application.

I think the big issue is some important functionality of the old system, like having your items/ships hangar open when you dock. You took that away. Then the list of corp member hangars is not alphabetical, I don't think I need to why having an unorganized list of 100+ names could be bad.

Additions:
  • Sort Corp Member Hangars alphabetically. (Seriously Its a random jumble how do you expect anyone to manage more than 5?)
  • Be able to set Ships/Current Ships/Items/Corp Hangars etc. as default. This would greatly benefit industrial pilots

    • I also would like to suggest that at some point we can sticky windows open, so if i open my items and my ship's cargo. When I undock it should stay open then when I dock in a new station it opens automatically. So I can quickly move items. The new UI makes moving items more tedious than it was before.

    The sticky or pinned windows would allow it to function like the old system but have all the awesome features of the new one.
    Malachi256
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #290 - 2012-05-25 05:57:06 UTC
    Just wanted to give some quick feedback, haven't read the thread...


    The filtering system is great. I'm already liking it. But my enthusiasm was quickly tempered by the poor options for filtering.

    IMHO, the filtering options absolutely need to include a hierarchy system that mirrors the marketplace. For example - allow me to set up a filter that includes all ammunition. Or the subset of projectile ammunition. Or just two specific faction projectile ammunitions. You get the picture. That marketplace already has the hierarchy established, and everyone is used to it - take advantage of that.
    Ky'trana
    Ky's Del
    #291 - 2012-05-25 06:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ky'trana
    have not fully read this whole topic.. but for me.. the new inventory thing sucks.

    Not intuitive at all and I miss the drag ship to window to change active ship..

    I have not been on since the change until just a few minutes ago.. and i could not figure out how to change the active ship..

    Thought double click would work or even a drag but nodda... not happy..

    And i too want a single window with just ships.. not showing everything in the flipping universe.. here..

    So.. when do we get the drag and drop back for active ships.. not like it is the first time CCP has taken it away only to bring it back to the game..

    What is going on with CCP.. not learning from past mistakes.. or is it simply just programming because it is easier for the programmer and caring not for the end user whom actually pays for the game?


    very annoyed!!!


    Edit.... for what ever reason.. it jsut now let me drag and drop.. why it would not allow me to before is beyond me.. i even asked around for help..

    Simply put.. not intuitive at all.. and i have been playing even since 06
    Sentinel Smith
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #292 - 2012-05-25 06:22:01 UTC
    Double Clicking on a ship in your hangar makes it active.. or as always, right click --> Make Active..
    Gorenaire
    Theosophical Society
    #293 - 2012-05-25 06:59:50 UTC
    You need to add sublevels. especially for POS management, having the tower control, the silos, and epecially the guns at teh same tree level makes items mamagement and moving really annoying,

    Also you need to correct the lag, even opening a SMA with few ships in takes upto 10 secs
    Dasola
    New Edens Freeports
    #294 - 2012-05-25 07:36:16 UTC
    i think its pretty clear new inventory system was designed by dev that dosent do any serious industry work in eve. Its clomsy and slow... Really dont understand how did this get throw QA department to release into game.

    Please, please give us option to revert back to old system, it was better in many things... Others has sugested this too....

    Just becouse something is old, dosent mean its broken. Eve has things that need fixing and inventory system was not one of them... If you need something to do, how about you go fixing corporate role system or get us new pos system. That should keep you busy year or two...

    We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
    magikalcoffee
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #295 - 2012-05-25 08:53:34 UTC
    Gnast wrote:
    As I and many others have pointed out in the feedback thread;

    The performance of inventory after the patch is godaweful. Incredible lag, espesially when you work with laaaarge
    volumes.
    As its now, for trade tycoons (i have well over 1000 orders), it becomes unbearable to even play this game.
    Each trade and opening of windows take rather significant amount of time more than in the past, and it
    really adds up rather fast, to the point of being aggrevating.

    When a game gives you that feeling, then you will simply log off and play something else, which is prolly
    not what CCP wants.





    ^^^^ this:
    my ps3 has had more action in the last 3 days than it has since i bought it, the inventory windows are too slow to load and generally unuseable i cant even double click on a ship to open the cargo hanger, hell i cant even shift click from the new and improved awesome tree. this game has become an annoyance and i cant really be bothered to play which is terrible as i love this game i play every day and have done for nearly 4 years and in 1terrible move ccp has driven me away. i tried to dock my ship in my carrier last night and discovered there is no r/click option to store vessel anymore even though there is still one available on a ship maintanence array, i had to eject from my ship and then scoop it into the carrier a very safe option ty ccp. this is a blatent example that ccp dont give a crap about there customers i doubt very much if they are even reading these forum pages anymore i cant remember the last time i saw a dev post.
    TigerXtrm
    KarmaFleet
    Goonswarm Federation
    #296 - 2012-05-25 08:58:52 UTC
    Bauloe wrote:
    with the shift click option it has made the use of the inventory system just like before. for me


    Same here. People just want to complain before they even try anything.

    You can drag your stuff from the active container to one of the items in the tree list, placing them in there. And shift + click opens a container in a new window. It's as intuitive as it can get, but everyone feels the need to complain about 1 or 2 extra clicks. Are you kidding me? Most of us are behind a computer all day anyway, how are two extra clicks going to ruin your life?

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    alittlebirdy
    All Hail The Liopleurodon
    #297 - 2012-05-25 08:59:55 UTC
    +1 day to using it -10 more points for SUCKING... maybe it helps the morons who could not posistion windows... SUCKS for me who could.
    Jajas Helper
    #298 - 2012-05-25 09:17:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jajas Helper
    TigerXtrm wrote:
    Bauloe wrote:
    with the shift click option it has made the use of the inventory system just like before. for me


    Same here. People just want to complain before they even try anything.

    You can drag your stuff from the active container to one of the items in the tree list, placing them in there. And shift + click opens a container in a new window. It's as intuitive as it can get, but everyone feels the need to complain about 1 or 2 extra clicks. Are you kidding me? Most of us are behind a computer all day anyway, how are two extra clicks going to ruin your life?


    those 1-2 extra clicks result in over 500 extra clicks and 300 full cargo refreshes everytime i install invention jobs in our pos (using multiple toons) , i do this 3 -4 times a day - more if we have an increase in production ( occasional corp manufacter members who happen to be have time to instal some jobs for us and so reducing the spare bpcs)

    So tell me again, WHY was this 'improvement' needed? I have yet to see any logic answer.. the closest thing was " It needed to look better" and lets face it, put more metalic/shiny color themes on the old system and it was going to have a better effect.


    Conclusion, even the people who like the new system admit that it is taking them longer to do things.. and even they can't give an argument to what reason the old system needed to be "fixed"/ "upgraded".

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1360013#post1360013
    go to that link, support a rollback on inventory and putting the new inventory system into the asset window - which makes alot more sense.

    Inferno do _stuff _with _stuff _to imitate the _stuff _you could do faster with the old stuff

    -stuff-
    Madner Kami
    Durendal Ascending
    #299 - 2012-05-25 09:19:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Madner Kami
    TigerXtrm wrote:
    Bauloe wrote:
    with the shift click option it has made the use of the inventory system just like before. for me


    Same here. People just want to complain before they even try anything.

    You can drag your stuff from the active container to one of the items in the tree list, placing them in there. And shift + click opens a container in a new window. It's as intuitive as it can get, but everyone feels the need to complain about 1 or 2 extra clicks. Are you kidding me? Most of us are behind a computer all day anyway, how are two extra clicks going to ruin your life?


    Are you just trolling or do you really not grasp the concept of persistance? These two extra clicks have to be repeated for every container that you do not want to have opened in the main window. It does not last beyond a session change and also those additional windows do not stack but each occupies screen-space and can't be accessed directly via something that is comparable with the old stack-tabbing. Some occupations amass several houndred, if not thousand clicks in addition to what they already do for "just" this basic functionality and then there is the loading time on top of that.
    Jajas Helper
    #300 - 2012-05-25 09:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jajas Helper
    Bauloe wrote:
    with the shift click option it has made the use of the inventory system just like before. for me



    So the new system wasn't actually needed... thanks for letting us know. Now look at the 'power users' who are ****** because of it.

    zero improvement for you, massive reduced efficiency for others: sounds like a bad upgrade to me

    Inferno do _stuff _with _stuff _to imitate the _stuff _you could do faster with the old stuff

    -stuff-