Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I stand corrected. It's only of no interest to players like me who have no real industrial skills. There's plenty of FW players out there who know how to do that stuff.

I support this. Like, 3 plexes worth of buffer at the MOST. Give the little guy a chance to make a difference, thats what FW is all about.

The way I see it is this - FW PvPers with no industrial skills are not going to be dumping LP into upgrades to obtain the industrial bonuses. Sure, they'll scatter their LP around to keep a tier level so the juice keeps flowing, but it will be spread to the systems where its cheapest to get WZC points, not poured vertically into a single system, 24/7. Someone who really wants to invest in an operation within a specific system won't be able to just rely on the resident PvPers to keep their bonuses going. If someone *depends* on these upgrades, and wants to have a static operation - they'll directly participate, even if its through an alt.

I think a lot of this has to do with the emotional "why do they get something they didnt work for" argument rather than looking at the fact that the industrialists that are serious about moving an operation into FW space in order to maximize profits cant afford to depend on the casual whim of PvPers making random upgrades to make sure all their projects are cooking on schedule. They will have some means to fill the gaps themselves. So yes, I DO think they will participate in the warzone on some level. Maybe they'll make an agreement with the local militia - you guys keep the system upgraded, I'll toss you some goods. But there has to be either direct participation, or direct negotiation, in order to maintain these bonuses. And that's a good thing.

I think its naive to think that everyone is going to put their industrialist characters (who may also be doing the hauling and transport) directly into the militia in order to install jobs, and becoming part of an active war dec. I think at that point we are right back to the risks of lowsec massively outweighing the rewards. They won't even have the protection of GCC and sec status at that point....and thats a lot for most industrialists to swallow.

That's exactly why Ytterbium said they will be stopping the formation of this 300% buffer to begin with:





This way no one should ever have to chew through the buffer, the most you'll ever D-plex a system to get it back to stable is a few plexes more than it took to get it to vulnerable. This should be vastly more attractive an option than flipping the system and possibly taking a WZC hit (and losing payouts militia wide) only to plex it back.

Why not make refining more efficient as a FW upgrade?

What about docking rights based not only on militia status, but also on standings? I find the players that take advantage of the militia mechanic to get kills to be exploiters.

Edit: this could also address the many corps that instead of relocating when losing their home system just leave militia and continue performing their pvp activities against the oppossing militia anyways.

Faction warfare fails because it does not reward APPROPRIATELY

DON'Ts

#1 Keep in mind that PVP and industrial-mining toons largely belong to two separate player camps with maybe 10-15% overlap. So low sec industrial and PI rewards tend to be pointless for the PVP individuals.

#2 DOUBLE JEOPARDY REWARDS -- even if you assume their corp has industrial-mining arm...a warzone is a terrible place for advanced industry both via story logic and by gank risk logic. Do you really think that every idle PVP ship in system is not out looking for haulers attemtping to grab stuff from Customs Stations or maybe blowing up PI stations for fun?
Sure fleets can fight over PI and other industrial-mining attempts...but then that cheap/advanatageous rate goes out the door in overhead -- does it not? Same for mining and for the most part industry products which will not be used on spot (msut be shipped elsewhere and subject to factional gank). And nothing should change the fact that warzone space is bad for general industry.

DOs

Ia. YES tie high sec empire faction taxes and industrial fees to war progress (rise and fall from standard rates). Heck there are even some NPC only goods like BPOs that could rise and fall. NOW high sec folk care and support ...even if not everyone races out to low sec to fight.

Ib. Maybe open a factional war effort service store where industrialists can donate or sell at lower prices exclusively to faction warfare folk. Similar to materials drives of WWII. Not more people initially maybe but better equipped ones. Lower prices might attract more players later though.

IIa. Do NOT lower industrial efficiency of high sec stations and raise those of low sec. Its illogical storywise for progressive settlement etc and its indirectly part of that DOUBLE JEOPARDY REWARD system. Instead ask yourself why hi sec belts and PI resources have not been more tied up by the NPC MEGACORPs and EMPIRE Governments.

IIb. Recommend Government reserve belts operate on a system simialr to old POS charter system with amount of charters linked to ship size and faction standing. Charters only purchasable with faction LP. NPC controlled belts would be accessible only via missions for that NPC corp (ship size restrictions, amount restrictions, split take with NPC corp, etc). In either case you effectively join NPC fleet when comlying with rules and otherwise get flagged for stealing to NPC guard fleet. And yes players might get PVP missions to help NPC fleets patrol belts looking for stealers.

IIc. Obviously schools would get certain exemptions for ships under certain size and maybe for a certain total number of missions per toon. On faction government side due to schools being part of government training and on NPC side due to recruitment efforts. But limited time and size offering.

The above would either force people into low sec -- OR divert a certain amount of player support to those wh are out there doing factional warfare.

The one thing I can see you would need to take care about is to not let things swing to far to one side in terms of penalties or advantages. Otherwise poepl might jsut all move to one faction to suck up the benefits and let other facions simply suffer collapse. Perhaps put a cap on the number of mining charters or ore available in given faction (maybe local rats start inflationary counterfeiting of charters and scoop up all the ore).

Why not less time for manufacturing/research/etc. instead of more slots. Less time for a job is way more cool while having somewhat similar effects....


I suggest even more stuff:

(moderate) PI bonuses (now that is something that locals like and will def. plex for)

going crazy: bonuses to scan probe strength (both a slight boost to exploration but also to combat probing)

Also simply more, if you can think of stuff (keep the boosts moderate, but anything goes)


Otherwise, love you guys.

The cyno takes 10 minutes to spool up. It lasts for an hour. And then it self destructs. And it can only be lit in fully upgraded FW systems. It is a 'Do Not Disturb' sign for FW cap fights.

I may be alone but I do not have a problem with the current war zone control swing and cash out events. It requires a lot of plexing (more pvp potential) and a level of coordination to achieve. There are issues with massive lp generation through speed tanking plexes but this is better resolved via the plex changes proposed in the other thread.

Better system upgrades are good and it is the quality of local upgrades that will drive lp investment into the hubs for people's home systems above the lower levels that will be easier to maintain war zone control.

Interestingly I think the capture changes may encourage factions not to defensive plex to much. Systems close to vulnerable state will only pay out so much when offensively plexed. This would be the best time to invest lp to raise the upgrade level as there will only be a limited number of offensive plexes to be run before no rewards are given. Rewards for defensive plexing at this level are higher and combined with reduced lp bleed could be fed back into the hub.

In fact the defensive plex rewards at this level are higher than the lp bleed amounts.

There is the danger the enemy plex and bash an upgraded system and this could force tough fights. 

My biggest fear is the gallente war zone drops back to a stagnant level with low level of war zone control and poor rewards. 

Sadly although we can test mechanics on sisi the outcome will not be certain until it is live.

Please don't make me run missions for cash again.