Player Features and Ideas Discussion

As a Caldari FW NPC's in plexes are not a big issue for me.
If the other militias have a more difficult time plexing - then hell yeah, balance them so that it is fair.
I prefer the npc's despawn when a defender arrives.

Now the real NPC issue that needs a fix.
NPC faction Police in High Sec. (CCP or Hans - plz give your comments)

Why do they exist?

Who do they protect?

How do they protect them?

What does Concord do?

What would change if NPC police were deleted?

Why do faction police shoot their own military?

Name one advantage of having them in game-

Name one disadvantage if they were deleted-


I should be able to be -10 and still fly in my own factions space without 'police' interference.

If I decide to gank a pod in high sec - they can't stop me. Concord will respond but the 'police' will have done nothing to stop the gank. This proves the police are a purposeless annoyance that need deleting.

Wanna know the real reason why so many systems are left vulnerable???
CAUSE WE CAN"T GET OUR FKN DRAKES OUT OF JITA CAUSE OF SCRAMMING NPC'S.
Again FFS CCP please delete the faction police.

I said 'please' this time.

The biggest issue, that I can think of, with FW is that right now, as it stands, people are not forced to fight.

The problem with 0 day alts speed tanking in throw away ships (and how this isn't split evenly across all races, some races such as minmatar and caldari can do this while gallente and amarr can not) has been brought up, and I agree that it is more a symptom of the issue, and not the issue itself. It still needs fixed, though.

Here are a few ideas, that came up in a brain storming session. I think they fit in this thread, as they are predominantly ideas that are based on the rats.

1) Change the warp in to on top of the button.
- This would mitigate the ability to just warp off as soon as you see someone land in your plex and force more fights

2) Require people to kill all of the rats before conquering the plex
- This would require people to use ships other than 0 day alts. You could still use said alt to tank, however I think idea 3 is a good fix for this

3) Make FW rats akin to sleeper and incursion rats.
- This change should effect the target switching, and not necessarily making them incredibly tough
- This would require small groups, or well fit out individuals, to complete these plexes

4) Give rewards for defensively running plexes
- The idea here, is give a reason to go out and save your systems from being conquered
- (thought about the idea of, giving rewards to someone for chasing someone off or killing someone in an offensive plex and running the button down to 0, was shot down as the idea of using alts to exploit this was brought up)

5) Slightly off topic with the rats, however on par with forcing fights, change the way the ihub mechanic and system flip works.
- Once system is brought to 100% vulnerable, ihub goes into reinforced with some random or fixed timer for when it comes out and can be shot.
- This gives time for both sides to prepare for a big fight
- More found in this thread: See Third Post


Once we make it easier to engage and eliminate all of the ninja taking of systems, thus giving the defensive side a fair chance, I think the system will be a lot better. The rats becoming uniform, with all 4 races using the same weapon systems (as far as turrets and missiles, or just turrets) helps as well. These are things that need to be done together, and not one or the other.

Faction police shoot criminals because crime is a crime. Doesn't matter if you belong to the military, IRL you murder someone that isn't a war target, you're going to jail. I don't think conceptually there's any issue with police enforcing crime.

The penalty to being a full-blown pirate is restricted access to high sec space. If you want to ninja through it fast you still can, but ruthless criminals are not supposed to enjoy all the privileges of shopping and basing out of major trade hubs.

EVE is a game full of decisions and consequences, you're essentially asking for criminals to live without penalty as long as they enlist in a militia.

I understand why you're frustrated, but many players for years have simply made the decision to curb their piracy in exchange for shopping and basing freely in the safety of high sec, or to go full pirate and send an alt to do the shopping instead. You're really the first person that's brought up the idea of removing the penalty for crime.....

Ty for the response Hans.
At work atm so if something I say gets confusing - sorry - I'm rushing this response.

I understand your perspective - It does seem that I am asking for no penalty for crime. However that is not my motivation.
I would simply prefer the game make sense and not be annoying for no purpose.

In FW - once you move to low sec you will eventually end up with a negative status.
Mine has been heading south at a decent rate since I moved to low sec.

The low sec aggression rules were designed for a very different sov system/low sec. One has been updated but the consequences for actually playing within that system have not been updated.

This problem occurs mostly just from chasing pirates out of plexes. If you do not shoot first and control the situation - you will generally die due to inaction.
The only alternative is to leave the plex - which contradicts CCP's idea that these changes will encourage pvp.
Players in high sec can already shoot people with low sec status - NPC's are not needed.
The current system that has my own factions NPC's attacking me is flawed/broken.

As for the penalty for being a criminal - Increase my Insurance - broker fees - whatever - but not being able to return to the fight due to PvE content is not how FW should be.

Small ship are no hassle to get around in. As long as I don't undock a Drake and try and do something super evil like warp to a gate - all is OK. So I can warp a thrasher to someones pod - but not a drake to a gate.

I am not looking for a win button or an easier time in game - I just honestly believe that what most likely started out with the best intentions - is now a worn out and pointless bit of code that REDUCES player content and participation in pvp.

I just threw up inside my mouth a little, time to go brush my teeth.....

This is probably the most offensive thing I've ever seen in Faction Warfare, Dev's should strip players of their "pilots licenses" whenever they catch someone in such an abomination of a fit. This guy should never be allowed to fly Dram's again!

Thanks for the link, it'll certainly be saved and added to the information I'm providing to CCP regarding the speed tanking issue, this is now"Exhibit A" for sure! Surely Ytterbium, as a ship balancer, will have his stomach churned the way i do and double down on the plex NPC overhaul :)

After a long hiatus... I'm back and thinking about returning to the Caldari militia... and I figure with a bit of experience with game modification and so forth I can add my two ISK,

Faction Warfare: Issues
NPC Rebalancing and Tweaks

Before going into details about what I think should be done with NPCs I have a few comments I’d like to make about them and the design of factional warfare. Current mechanics revolve around the taking of complexes in hostile space to ‘advance’ your faction’s possession of hostile space. Taking a complex involves orbiting an object in space for a specific amount of time in order to ‘capture’ or ‘flip’ the complex.

From an in universe perspective… what the heck is going on? Are they some sort of automated installation we’re capturing or what? I’d like a bit more of a reason to bother with them.

I do love the suggested post involving clearing the space around the complex of hostile npcs, and the appearance of a transport you must protect until the complex is captured. That would be an excellent solution to the… rather arbitrary manner in which faction warfare players struggle for sovereignty.

From an out of universe perspective I can understand the idea behind the current mechanics… forcing a player to remain within a complex until it’s captured is a means of promoting pvp as they must stay there to take it even if an enemy militia pilot shows up.

This brings up the first question that should dictate how we think of NPC rebalancing and tweaking in Factional Warfare. That question is really rather obvious…

Question: What is the purpose of NPC opposition in Complexes?

If NPC opposition in complexes are supposed to be farmable… like mission npcs or other PvE combat, they’re serving that role rather well. The problem with that is that it makes complex runners fit for PvE combat.

If NPC opposition in complexes is to provide a fight or actual defense in the absence of hostile players, then they need to be significantly changed.

Think of it as a round in a FPS multiplayer game. If you get on an empty server… there’s no one there and nothing for you to do… unless they have ‘bots’ for you to kill while waiting for another player to appear. Bots act much, much different from the opponents you have in single player campaigns right? So shouldn’t these NPCs trying to keep you busy while waiting for an enemy militia member to show up be a lot different from mission running npcs?

The complaints about the EW ability of NPCs make me laugh… there’s nothing wrong with EW in pvp… so why can’t the NPCs wield EW as well. Our complaint is that their EW is either significantly more powerful or longer ranged then the same abilities we can wield. That’s a point worth making.

What should npc’s in faction warfare dungeons be like? Think newbie fit t1 ships with crap skills. I’ll put down what the stats for a few of those ships would look like (these stats are derived from playing with EFT…).

State Nihonoto – Merlin Frigate used by the Caldari State
A Combat Frigate of the Caldari State and will engage any hostile ship it detects in its patrol zone. Threat Level: High

Offenses – Battery of 125mm Railguns with Antimatter ~ 34.9 DPS
Cycle Time: 2.69 seconds
Optimal Range: 4,500 meters
Falloff Range: 5,000 meters
Signature: 40 meters
Tracking: 0.08925 radians
Damage per Hit: 55 Kinetic, 39 Thermal

Defenses – Standard Merlin with Rigging for Factional Resists and Shield Extender
Shield Hitpoints: 688
Shield Resistances: 30% EM, 20% Thermal, 40% Kinetic, 75% Explosive
Armor Hitpoints: 350
Armor Resistances: 50% EM, 45% Thermal, 25% Kinetic, 10% Explosive
Hull Hitpoints: 400
Hull Resistances: None

Electronic Warfare – Really you expect a PvP frigate not to have Tackle?
Warp Scrambling: Duration: 5 sec, 95% chance, Optimal: 7,500 meters, Warp Strength: -2
Stasis Webifier: Duration: 5 sec, 95% chance, Optimal: 10,000 meters, Speed: -50%

Targeting – Standard Merlin
Signature Radius: 52 meters
Attack Range: 9,500 meters
Attack Targets: 1
Locked Targets: 2
Strength: Gravimetic: 11 points

Movement – Standard Merlin + Afterburner
Orbital Range: 4,500 meters
Orbital Velocity: 635 m/sec
Max Velocity: 660 m/sec

I think a lot of you have encountered Merlin frigates with similar fits on TQ… though they are usually performing much, much better than this ship. As for the 95% chance on the Scram and Web: Human error is reportedly around 2% so giving anything a 100% chance of tackling someone seems rather dumb to me. Admittedly… I’ve seen and you’ve seen people fitting terribly setups, but we shouldn’t cater to idiots, right?

Ahw nice i see my fit made it to the headlines, not a smart move putting it out here you will get more of them now.
Why people always gotta whine and cry about plex runners. Its a way to earn good isk in game.. let it go stop complaining about it.
Some people love to mine or Pi or whatever. others love the danger of low sec like me and become plex runners. Dont complain about i dont pvp you. what do u expect u jump on a 2month old toon with 2 mil sp, using a 40mil sp toon and u wanna call that a fair fight? dont make me laugh.. your lookin for an easy kill. if u didnt engage the noob in the first place he wouldnt have to run now would he. And then they say dont be in low sec then. why not? cause i choose not to get blown up easy and decide this makes better money then mining or w/e ive seen so far in game? Thats why EVE is suppose to be a Free world. Deal with it.
Dont try to kill fresh born toons and try to call urself skilled. look for older players im sure they wont run. And no im not some alt This acctually is a main toon.

i mean... You dont see arm dealers in the front line of the war do you? they are in the warzone.. but they get the hell outta there when the fight gets to close.. picture me like that.. an arms dealer, i even like the sound of it

you keep throwing up, i'll keep kissing these billions.
And when im rich enough and i buy a decent pvp toon.. i'll pvp all of ya it will be actually fun for me 2 at that point. even if i die.

and dont go posting new players arent suppose to earn that much cause ive heard that 1 be4
eve is a free world.. deal with it dont whine about it.

funny how they dont whine about protecting new players from toons that are years older..
skilled.. my ***

Mining ship < not for pvp proffesion> mining
Plexing fit (mines) < not for pvp profession> Running Plexes

I'm not in faction warfare, and I certainly claim no expertise on the subject of PVP, but:

Take the above idea of having the warp-in near the button. Make the button an outpost. Have the faction NPCs wait to see what kind of ship comes in to take the plex, and have the NPCs undock from that outpost in a fleet designed to respond to that ship type. Is it a frigate in anything other than a baby plex? Send ships with launchers after it. Every faction has them (some are better than others, but that's a different problem, and one that CCP is addressing). Is it a ship appropriate to the class of plex? Send a small, hard-hitting crew out to try and hold the site until capsuleer help arrives.

I realize that I'm asking for a whole new subsystem here, but if the plex NPCs can react to the incoming enemy ship, even in the most rudimentary terms (frigate/not-frigate, or maybe slicing up responses by sig radius?) then CCP can tweak the NPCs to address not only this problem, but any other subsequent problems that come up with "win ships" farming plexes.

I think you are on to a good idea. - But not as a teleport.

Jumpbridges as a system upgrade would have a similar effect. Enemy's could even camp them.

You could set up baits in the plexes and wait for a response.

Once you upgrade - they could spawn near the hub in each fully upgraded system allowing travel to any other fully upgraded system.



The more I think about it - the more of a win idea it is. +1 Dude.

A proposal for a completely different plex mechanic

The Basic idea

You can't Offensive Plex unless you in a appropriate ship for the size plex.
There are no rats that aggress players interfering with PvP.
For both offensive and defensive plexing, if you are forced off the field your opponent can close your plex (but it doesnt close automatically)
You can defensive plex in a cheapy ship


Offensive Plexing

Warp into the plex
Shoot a structure (something that dies in less than 1 min if you have an appropriate sized ship for the plex, but something that you cant kill in a undersized ship)
Once the structure explodes a friendly hauler arrives to pickup the cans from the destroyed structure.
The hauler collects loot for 10min (or 15 or 20 depending on plex size / amount of loot to collect)
If you move away from the structure (button) the hauler stops working (timer stops).
If you come back onto grid, close to the structure (button) the hauler continues again.
However, if the hauler is destroyed by the opposing militia then the plex closes with no rewards (and no gain to contested level).
The hauler takes about 1 min to kill in an appropriate size pvp fit ship.



Defensive plexing

Warp into a plex.
Approach the structure.
Structure launches a minig ship.
While you are are at the structure (button) the mining ship mines.
Timer counts down (10,15,20 as normal)
If you leave the button (or grid) the mining ships stops mining (timer stops)
If you come back, it continues again.
If the mining ship is destroyed by the opposing militia then the plex close with no change to contested level. The mining ship takes about 1min to kill in an appropriate sized pvp fit ship.