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kardjaval
Curtana Joyeuse and Durendal Security
#61 - 2012-05-05 01:29:03 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
The alliance tourney is an annual event for seasoned players who have already done (by themselves) what you propose.

You seem to be missing the part where all the toys you are asking for are already in the sandbox and all you need to do is pick them up.



aren't you being the one nitpicking now?

again, their has been zero true counterarguments against my idea, so far the only counter argument literally consists of nothing but opinion, and even that opinion is shaky.

so i've said it before, ill say it again, the only reason people don't like this idea, is because they are adverse to change.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#62 - 2012-05-05 04:01:04 UTC  |  Edited by: mxzf
kardjaval wrote:
again, their has been zero true counterarguments against my idea


There have been a ton of counterarguments to your idea (both in this thread and many others). But if you simply refuse to acknowledge them as valid points, then it's pointless to try to reason with you.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-05-05 06:01:32 UTC
mxzf wrote:
kardjaval wrote:
again, their has been zero true counterarguments against my idea


There have been a ton of counterarguments to your idea (both in this thread and many others). But if you simply refuse to acknowledge them as valid points, then it's pointless to try to reason with you.

It may be time to crash this thread. Doesn't look like anything new is being said.
kardjaval
Curtana Joyeuse and Durendal Security
#64 - 2012-05-05 06:28:15 UTC
mxzf wrote:
kardjaval wrote:
again, their has been zero true counterarguments against my idea


There have been a ton of counterarguments to your idea (both in this thread and many others). But if you simply refuse to acknowledge them as valid points, then it's pointless to try to reason with you.



lets look and see.
[spoiler]

"this is not how the sandbox works"

not a counter argument, just a opinion.

"it doesn't create any opputunities for play that don't already exist"

yes it does, it creates a tournyment(as in alliance tourny) equal playfooting for actual pvp, and not just gank pvp

post 6 talks about how it takes away from the sandbox, the fact is, it's a addition to teh sandbox, 1+1 will always =2, it takes nothing away, it offers no real incentives over "real" pvp other than far less stress.

post 7 was spam.

post 9 talks about RvB which is a great introduction to corporation pvp, but is far more restricted than my arena would be, first just because you are in either allience, you are stuck with restrictions, such as no t3, ecm, and all fights require approval from both sides, in my arena, the only people who would be there, are those who actually want to be there, plus, no smack talk is allowed in rvb which really go against the pvp nature.

post ten talks about how sp difference dont matter in pvp (uh wat??) and then goes on to state that my idea is basically what sisi is for, which opens up teh arguemtn to my sisi counterarguments, which in your words" i targeted because they were easy to counter"

post 13 is a opinion, about how t1 pvp is already no risk (opinion, and biased btw) and how if player want low risk pvp they should do low risk pvp(but i thought half teh arguuments were about how eve is so fundamentally awesome that at all times their are always something at risk..derp)

post 15 talks about how to instal sisi to use as my arena. frankly, this is a stupid idea, because not only is sisi a whole nother client package (a full 10 gigs just for something to do stress free, something which could very easily be implemented into current live server, well that is jus tstupid, and its a waste of harddrive space, and a waste is a waste, and a bunch of littler wastes always add up, just look at if you water faucet drips.

post 16 talks about how it would be a waste of dev time, and such, and that i would have to come up with a better reason then "it'll allow people to try stuff out without risk" well, my counter is, new turrets were nothing but graphic fluff, and those obviously were a waste of dev time, a game such as eve evloves, it's never static, new additions are made, some liked, some hated, but only a very few, would be considered a waste of dev time.

post 20 talks about a hypothetical situation where my system is implemented, and why would a player choose to risk his isk, when he can just hop in the simulater, i countered with the fact that real pvp would be far more beneficial to the player, and have a tangible effect in eve that would far outweigh teh benefit of being no risk, no risk = no rewards.

post 21 talks about how my arena wouldn't be pvp, how eve core philosophy is all about the risk, i countered with the fact that eve is not some "you are always at risk of being blown into a million peices" game, there are safe spots (aka docked stations) which still allow you to play the game, advance your character, with out any risk.

post 24 talks about how losing a not up to date clone can result in days and weeks of lost training time, (in counter to previous balancing idea) my counter was pretty simple, players don't generally fly without clones up to date. post also went on to explain that even players docked are still as risk of wallet pvp (um..what???) post also went onto other more opinionated reasons why teh arena would be bad...opinions are opinions.

post 28 talks about how the benefits of real pvp are not nearly as true as i seem to think, how part time pirates doen't care about the killmail, they don't get phat lewts, they talk about how they are only in it for the kill, couple of opinions, but for the most part, a decent post, don't think i presented a counter argument...but i probably would of said how if you are only in it for the fuzzy feeling you get when you make teh kill, then you wouldn't care either way for or against a arena, however for the most part, current pvp is less about making the kill, and more about making the other guy cry, whether its because of a wallet hit from a lost ship, or from a skill drop due to a outdated clone and being podd killed, such a feeling ouldn't exist in teh arena, hence "real" pvp would be more prefferred.

post 30 is a nice post, on the betting, did you know in the wallet their is a tab to show isk recieved/lost due to betting, so betting in game already exists somewhere. anyways back to topic.

post 30 talks about how pvp is more then just the actual combat, it's also about how your ship is fitted, finding the targets, and avoiding becoming a target yourself. states my arena would be no more pvp then incursions are, i counter that nothing is as simple as that, and how practice 1v1 would still be beneficial to pvp, i also stated that my arena allowed for testing of fits in pve enviroments without risk as well, just so you could go and test all sorts of whacky things, like fast tackling drakes (rofl)[/spoiler]


anyways, i'm running out of letters here, the fac tis, not a single counter argument is a fact, they are opinions or mere speculation for teh most part.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-05-05 08:45:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
kardjaval wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
The alliance tourney is an annual event for seasoned players who have already done (by themselves) what you propose.

You seem to be missing the part where all the toys you are asking for are already in the sandbox and all you need to do is pick them up.



aren't you being the one nitpicking now?

again, their has been zero true counterarguments against my idea, so far the only counter argument literally consists of nothing but opinion, and even that opinion is shaky.

so i've said it before, ill say it again, the only reason people don't like this idea, is because they are adverse to change.


I'll give you a counter argument. PvP is a privilege. Like everything else in EVE you have to earn it. You have to earn it's outcome, good or bad. An arena gives you the benefit with none of the nuances that go into pvp. Such as managing your assets so you can afford to field a better ship or able to sustain a loss in general. It gives you practice in a realm where practice is meant to come with a cost.

It also makes avoiding war decs and non consentual pvp far to easy as when you are under threat you can sit docked all day still enjoying pvp.

Not to mention the mindset that follows with the wowbrand kiddies. Once its allowed in, it's used as justification to ask for more. First a scoreboard then ships/gear as rewards.

It's 5am here I could elaborate in greater depth the nuances of why EVE players have a disdain for warcraftesque novelties but it's not going to happen so it's not worth the energy.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-05-05 12:05:14 UTC
I'm afraid I don't see a place for this in a sandbox game. If you need to do arenas create the organization yourself and police it.. or move your practice to sisi.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Im Super Gay
Investtan Inc.
The Republic.
#67 - 2012-05-05 13:36:37 UTC
Your response to 15 is just an opinion. "Waste of space" and "its just stupid" specifically.

21: any time you undock you risk being blown into a million pieces. Your "counter" is a sidestep of the main point. Any activity that involves making/acquiring isk or materials involves risk. Trading is the only activity that you can do without undocking certain characters, but most market traders have alt haulers, so as a whole their operation carry a risk of being blwn up in addition to losing tons of money on the market.
kardjaval
Curtana Joyeuse and Durendal Security
#68 - 2012-05-05 13:45:57 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
kardjaval wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
The alliance tourney is an annual event for seasoned players who have already done (by themselves) what you propose.

You seem to be missing the part where all the toys you are asking for are already in the sandbox and all you need to do is pick them up.



aren't you being the one nitpicking now?

again, their has been zero true counterarguments against my idea, so far the only counter argument literally consists of nothing but opinion, and even that opinion is shaky.

so i've said it before, ill say it again, the only reason people don't like this idea, is because they are adverse to change.


I'll give you a counter argument. PvP is a privilege. Like everything else in EVE you have to earn it. You have to earn it's outcome, good or bad. An arena gives you the benefit with none of the nuances that go into pvp. Such as managing your assets so you can afford to field a better ship or able to sustain a loss in general. It gives you practice in a realm where practice is meant to come with a cost.

It also makes avoiding war decs and non consentual pvp far to easy as when you are under threat you can sit docked all day still enjoying pvp.

Not to mention the mindset that follows with the wowbrand kiddies. Once its allowed in, it's used as justification to ask for more. First a scoreboard then ships/gear as rewards.

It's 5am here I could elaborate in greater depth the nuances of why EVE players have a disdain for warcraftesque novelties but it's not going to happen so it's not worth the energy.




MAYBE I SHOULD SHOUT THIS FROM THE HIGHEST MOUNTAINS, AND LOWEST VALLEYS.

there is already, in play a system where you can practice pvp that rewards no benefits, and can be done safely, it's called the singulartiy servers, it's safe at all times, their is none of the associated harships that go with eve pvp, their are also server enforced rules..yet,the market didn't crash, players who are wardecced don't flock to singularity to get their pvp "fix" furthermore, you must never of truly played wow from a pvp standbpoint, the arenas were a poorly thought out addition to the game, that didn't take anything away from wow, merely added more, with better incentives. which is why arena pvp became the preffered pvp,

Quote:
I'm afraid I don't see a place for this in a sandbox game. If you need to do arenas create the organization yourself and police it.. or move your practice to sisi.
and pray tell, how do i setup, police, and monitor a event which is utilized by the entire playerbase? you guys say i have the tools to do it, witch if false, no one has to tool to actually create and police a pvp organization, that is not restricted to low cost ships, if you can explain how i would stop some goons from greifing the pvp, jsut for their kicks, explain how i could encourage freindly pvp with not just the t1 fris, but with the other more valuable ships as well, i'll gladly keep my ears open, see what you can come up with.
kardjaval
Curtana Joyeuse and Durendal Security
#69 - 2012-05-05 13:59:10 UTC
Im Super Gay wrote:
Your response to 15 is just an opinion. "Waste of space" and "its just stupid" specifically.

21: any time you undock you risk being blown into a million pieces. Your "counter" is a sidestep of the main point. Any activity that involves making/acquiring isk or materials involves risk. Trading is the only activity that you can do without undocking certain characters, but most market traders have alt haulers, so as a whole their operation carry a risk of being blwn up in addition to losing tons of money on the market.



a waste is a waste, it something that should be ingrained into everyone at this point.

you do not waste stuff, it's a socioity ingreained thought prcess, don't waste food, don't waste electricy, don't waste water, or money, waste is not a opinion, a waste is just that, a waste, their is no way around that.

furthermore, 21, explain to me how the below is risky.

1.make character
2. dock character
3. start training skills on said character
4. train 25million sp of character.5. sell character for isk.



please, explain the market risk involve, i will wait, selling characters is a time consuming, but valid way to make isk, and their is ZERO risk involved, even the risk of being scammed is gone, thansk to systems mandated rules, that are in forced at the gm and above level.

further more, a character who just docks, and proceed to play the mrket, has very little risk involved to themselves, you talk about how they may have a a hauler alt, they don't need a hauler alt to makes tonnes of money in the market, buying low, to sell high works without the need for a hauler, furthermore, with skills in marketing, you cna buy and sell anywhere, in the region without having to leave your docked area. you can even contract out hauling missions to third parties, which thanks to a collatieral system is also risk free for the market mongol.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-05-05 15:06:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
kardjaval wrote:

MAYBE I SHOULD SHOUT THIS FROM THE HIGHEST MOUNTAINS, AND LOWEST VALLEYS.

there is already, in play a system where you can practice pvp that rewards no benefits, and can be done safely, it's called the singulartiy servers, it's safe at all times, their is none of the associated harships that go with eve pvp, their are also server enforced rules..yet,the market didn't crash, players who are wardecced don't flock to singularity to get their pvp "fix" furthermore, you must never of truly played wow from a pvp standbpoint, the arenas were a poorly thought out addition to the game, that didn't take anything away from wow, merely added more, with better incentives. which is why arena pvp became the preffered pvp.


I guess my counter argument really hit home. As to your WoW comments, I played a warlock, quite well. People don't flock to Singularity because its unofficial. Anything done on it would recieve no glory by peers. Which is why the population of EVE laughs at your arena idea and taunts you as you go. We know exactly why people of your mindset want Arenas, more specifically Arenas on the official server. You want to amass the best of every item in game to use in arenas, avoiding all conflict up until that point and then have the power to gloat how awesome you are in a 1v1 with the bling gear against blingless scrubs. And the arena enviroment would be without loss i'm sure.

Knowing this we say no. You will not have an arena, you will not have safety, you will not play safe until OP, and you will not become a combat legend 1v1ing in "Jitarena". You will suffer and be a miserable nobody in the cesspool like everyone else and when you tire of the taste of rat shat, you will harden the **** up and take or make what you want.


Plus at its core your idea sucks because EVE is all futuristic spaceshippy and arenas are for Conan and Orcs.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#71 - 2012-05-05 22:56:41 UTC
Once again, stop trying to take the risk out of PvP by having some magical PvP area where everything is done by consent and there is no risk of loss.

You should just deal with the fact that PvP has its inherent risks, and that PvP is everywhere in EVE. Don't like it, don't play.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Im Super Gay
Investtan Inc.
The Republic.
#72 - 2012-05-06 13:43:26 UTC
kardjaval wrote:
Im Super Gay wrote:
Your response to 15 is just an opinion. "Waste of space" and "its just stupid" specifically.

21: any time you undock you risk being blown into a million pieces. Your "counter" is a sidestep of the main point. Any activity that involves making/acquiring isk or materials involves risk. Trading is the only activity that you can do without undocking certain characters, but most market traders have alt haulers, so as a whole their operation carry a risk of being blwn up in addition to losing tons of money on the market.



a waste is a waste, it something that should be ingrained into everyone at this point.

you do not waste stuff, it's a socioity ingreained thought prcess, don't waste food, don't waste electricy, don't waste water, or money, waste is not a opinion, a waste is just that, a waste, their is no way around that.

furthermore, 21, explain to me how the below is risky.

1.make character
2. dock character
3. start training skills on said character
4. train 25million sp of character.5. sell character for isk.



please, explain the market risk involve, i will wait, selling characters is a time consuming, but valid way to make isk, and their is ZERO risk involved, even the risk of being scammed is gone, thansk to systems mandated rules, that are in forced at the gm and above level.

further more, a character who just docks, and proceed to play the mrket, has very little risk involved to themselves, you talk about how they may have a a hauler alt, they don't need a hauler alt to makes tonnes of money in the market, buying low, to sell high works without the need for a hauler, furthermore, with skills in marketing, you cna buy and sell anywhere, in the region without having to leave your docked area. you can even contract out hauling missions to third parties, which thanks to a collatieral system is also risk free for the market mongol.

So far your arguments against the already existing feature on the test server are "because of 10 gigs," "its just stupid," "waste of space", and "don't waste." Speaking of waste and 10 something, I've got 10TB of hdd space setup in raid one. That means I'm wasting 5TB on duplicate information. I'm counting on your head explodng at the mention of raid 1. Either way, waste of space is not a valid point, that is your own problem and not ccp's. Try harder.

Again, you're sidestepping. Eve's core philosophy revolves around risk. For anyone who undocks, its the risk of being blown up. For the market trader, its called market pvp. For the char trader, its the risk that the skillset you're training will still be one that is valuable in a year. Imagine if you were training an incursion char like everyone else, then suddenly incursions were nerfed and you couldn't get back your time investment, which is literally plex or money and the cost of skillbooks.
kardjaval
Curtana Joyeuse and Durendal Security
#73 - 2012-05-06 16:10:52 UTC
Im Super Gay wrote:
kardjaval wrote:
Im Super Gay wrote:
Your response to 15 is just an opinion. "Waste of space" and "its just stupid" specifically.

21: any time you undock you risk being blown into a million pieces. Your "counter" is a sidestep of the main point. Any activity that involves making/acquiring isk or materials involves risk. Trading is the only activity that you can do without undocking certain characters, but most market traders have alt haulers, so as a whole their operation carry a risk of being blwn up in addition to losing tons of money on the market.



a waste is a waste, it something that should be ingrained into everyone at this point.

you do not waste stuff, it's a socioity ingreained thought prcess, don't waste food, don't waste electricy, don't waste water, or money, waste is not a opinion, a waste is just that, a waste, their is no way around that.

furthermore, 21, explain to me how the below is risky.

1.make character
2. dock character
3. start training skills on said character
4. train 25million sp of character.5. sell character for isk.



please, explain the market risk involve, i will wait, selling characters is a time consuming, but valid way to make isk, and their is ZERO risk involved, even the risk of being scammed is gone, thansk to systems mandated rules, that are in forced at the gm and above level.

further more, a character who just docks, and proceed to play the mrket, has very little risk involved to themselves, you talk about how they may have a a hauler alt, they don't need a hauler alt to makes tonnes of money in the market, buying low, to sell high works without the need for a hauler, furthermore, with skills in marketing, you cna buy and sell anywhere, in the region without having to leave your docked area. you can even contract out hauling missions to third parties, which thanks to a collatieral system is also risk free for the market mongol.

So far your arguments against the already existing feature on the test server are "because of 10 gigs," "its just stupid," "waste of space", and "don't waste." Speaking of waste and 10 something, I've got 10TB of hdd space setup in raid one. That means I'm wasting 5TB on duplicate information. I'm counting on your head explodng at the mention of raid 1. Either way, waste of space is not a valid point, that is your own problem and not ccp's. Try harder.

Again, you're sidestepping. Eve's core philosophy revolves around risk. For anyone who undocks, its the risk of being blown up. For the market trader, its called market pvp. For the char trader, its the risk that the skillset you're training will still be one that is valuable in a year. Imagine if you were training an incursion char like everyone else, then suddenly incursions were nerfed and you couldn't get back your time investment, which is literally plex or money and the cost of skillbooks.


and you are sidestepping the fact that the main argument against my idea has been "it's already available in the form of sisi"
furthermore, now instead of talking about proposed idea, you instead choose to bring up something completely irrelevant to the idea (whoopty freakin do, i done have 10 terebytes in raid setup) you choose to cnstatnly bring up "that eve is all about the risked" when in fact MY IDEA ALREADY CURRENTLY EXISTS, the only thing my idea does, is optimize it, and brings it over to the live servers to where the majority of the players will be more justifide in accessing it.
kardjaval
Curtana Joyeuse and Durendal Security
#74 - 2012-05-06 16:12:12 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Once again, stop trying to take the risk out of PvP by having some magical PvP area where everything is done by consent and there is no risk of loss.

You should just deal with the fact that PvP has its inherent risks, and that PvP is everywhere in EVE. Don't like it, don't play.



my idea already exist, in the form of sisi, i am merely asking it to be optimized, and bought over to the live servers that way the test servers can actually be used for what they are designed to be used as (testing changes made by ccp to gameplay mechanics)
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-05-06 16:41:49 UTC
kardjaval wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Once again, stop trying to take the risk out of PvP by having some magical PvP area where everything is done by consent and there is no risk of loss.

You should just deal with the fact that PvP has its inherent risks, and that PvP is everywhere in EVE. Don't like it, don't play.



my idea already exist, in the form of sisi, i am merely asking it to be optimized, and bought over to the live servers that way the test servers can actually be used for what they are designed to be used as (testing changes made by ccp to gameplay mechanics)



I'll pull that out for you again

kardjaval wrote:
my idea already exist, in the form of sisi,


Now this isnt the first time ive seen a "I want Arenas in EVE" thread, and im pretty sure it wont be the last. The basic problem you are dealing with is the want for controlled PVP in a way that seems to run counter to the rest of EVE design philosophy.

the whole concept of its a waste of space applies to your arena idea too, it does noting to advance a player in a way that he/she cant already find out through trial and error on live, or test on the test server. Conversing with other players in various channels and getting advice from corpmates will teach new players a lot about how to fly. most of EVE is about experience and not sp.

If you really want a pvp arena organize events on sisi and see how they turn out. Im sure you can get a few people to try it out. But because of the lack of utility that such events will give people i doubt it will go further then that. Increasingly pvp is more about gang then solo. and thus experience gained in the arena will not benefit people all that much.

I have yet to see a good reason for it to be optimized and brought to TQ. It adds nothing that i can see to the game, nor does it fit with what i believe to be the rest of EVE universe philosophy.


Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
kardjaval
Curtana Joyeuse and Durendal Security
#76 - 2012-05-06 17:05:36 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
kardjaval wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Once again, stop trying to take the risk out of PvP by having some magical PvP area where everything is done by consent and there is no risk of loss.

You should just deal with the fact that PvP has its inherent risks, and that PvP is everywhere in EVE. Don't like it, don't play.



my idea already exist, in the form of sisi, i am merely asking it to be optimized, and bought over to the live servers that way the test servers can actually be used for what they are designed to be used as (testing changes made by ccp to gameplay mechanics)



I'll pull that out for you again

kardjaval wrote:
my idea already exist, in the form of sisi,


Now this isnt the first time ive seen a "I want Arenas in EVE" thread, and im pretty sure it wont be the last. The basic problem you are dealing with is the want for controlled PVP in a way that seems to run counter to the rest of EVE design philosophy.

the whole concept of its a waste of space applies to your arena idea too, it does noting to advance a player in a way that he/she cant already find out through trial and error on live, or test on the test server. Conversing with other players in various channels and getting advice from corpmates will teach new players a lot about how to fly. most of EVE is about experience and not sp.

If you really want a pvp arena organize events on sisi and see how they turn out. Im sure you can get a few people to try it out. But because of the lack of utility that such events will give people i doubt it will go further then that. Increasingly pvp is more about gang then solo. and thus experience gained in the arena will not benefit people all that much.

I have yet to see a good reason for it to be optimized and brought to TQ. It adds nothing that i can see to the game, nor does it fit with what i believe to be the rest of EVE universe philosophy.



wow a more reasonable response then the others.

anyways, the benefit of this, is 1st, to increase the awareness, and participants in pvp 1v1 testing, currently sisi never gets more then 1% of the total eve population, furthermore, the risks associated with actual 1v1 duels, limits the availability, and the viability of player ran pvp tournaments in eve, no player is willing to risk a officer fit unique ship, furthermore, it puts all players, from the 5 day old newb, to the guy who was born back in '03, on a equal footing, skill wise, and even ship wise.

1v1 competitions are already popular, having been ran by numorous player corps all over eve, however, such competitions have heavy restrictions, overly expensive ships are never used, their may even be restrictions on the meta quality of equipped items, all in a attempt to create a relative balance between participents, my idea creates and enforce the balance, while encouraging more participents, and more variation in ships.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-05-06 17:36:15 UTC
kardjaval wrote:

anyways, the benefit of this, is 1st, to increase the awareness, and participants in pvp 1v1 testing, currently sisi never gets more then 1% of the total eve population, furthermore, the risks associated with actual 1v1 duels, limits the availability, and the viability of player ran pvp tournaments in eve, no player is willing to risk a officer fit unique ship, furthermore, it puts all players, from the 5 day old newb, to the guy who was born back in '03, on a equal footing, skill wise, and even ship wise.

1v1 competitions are already popular, having been ran by numorous player corps all over eve, however, such competitions have heavy restrictions, overly expensive ships are never used, their may even be restrictions on the meta quality of equipped items, all in a attempt to create a relative balance between participents, my idea creates and enforce the balance, while encouraging more participents, and more variation in ships.



This is where it gets to , I dont understand why this is needed. Sisi is known to almost every player, mass testing warnings show up in the Calender from time to time. its on the loading splash page and in the eve news already, its not a lack of awareness thats keeping people from being on the test server.

duels on the test server have no risk, and are often done just not in an official format, and as such leave open the possibility of fleet warpins and other random passerbys joining the fray. which is realistic to TQ pvp. many however are true 1v1 fights. but they dont teach us about anything. they have no meaning. winning or losing there is no isk loss or connection to the fight.

The player run tournaments that you talk about have those heavy restrictions self imposed, to insure that the rules are followed, but there is always the possibility that some one will try to cheat, Just as in any other sporting event, people can and will cheat. Having a game mechanic that tries to limit this seems self defeating, when eve encourages asshattery, why limit it in this way?

Another thing about tournaments and expensive ships. Now that Officer gear and deadspace mods are seeded on the SiSi market, you can fit that Federation Issue Megathron that you've always wanted, or that Andrestia that you didnt win in the alliance tournament.

I dont see any Arena mechanics coming into play that isn't just
A) E-peen measuring / gloating about how officer fit their ship is,
This already happens without the fighting, Usually in trade hub local chats. and in some rare and funny cases it happens with the fighting and killmails are linked and laughed at.

B) completely useless for teaching people how to fight.
Either your opponent will be honorable and fight on fair terms or they wont. All other fighting in EVE is on those terms, why create an environment that teaches the wrong things about the universe that we play in?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#78 - 2012-05-06 17:39:22 UTC
kardjaval wrote:

wow a more reasonable response then the others.

anyways, the benefit of this, is 1st, to increase the awareness, and participants in pvp 1v1 testing, currently sisi never gets more then 1% of the total eve population, furthermore, the risks associated with actual 1v1 duels, limits the availability, and the viability of player ran pvp tournaments in eve, no player is willing to risk a officer fit unique ship, furthermore, it puts all players, from the 5 day old newb, to the guy who was born back in '03, on a equal footing, skill wise, and even ship wise.

1v1 competitions are already popular, having been ran by numorous player corps all over eve, however, such competitions have heavy restrictions, overly expensive ships are never used, their may even be restrictions on the meta quality of equipped items, all in a attempt to create a relative balance between participents, my idea creates and enforce the balance, while encouraging more participents, and more variation in ships.



Now explain what part any of that has in EVE, a game of risks and of consequences.
kardjaval
Curtana Joyeuse and Durendal Security
#79 - 2012-05-06 17:49:25 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
kardjaval wrote:

anyways, the benefit of this, is 1st, to increase the awareness, and participants in pvp 1v1 testing, currently sisi never gets more then 1% of the total eve population, furthermore, the risks associated with actual 1v1 duels, limits the availability, and the viability of player ran pvp tournaments in eve, no player is willing to risk a officer fit unique ship, furthermore, it puts all players, from the 5 day old newb, to the guy who was born back in '03, on a equal footing, skill wise, and even ship wise.

1v1 competitions are already popular, having been ran by numorous player corps all over eve, however, such competitions have heavy restrictions, overly expensive ships are never used, their may even be restrictions on the meta quality of equipped items, all in a attempt to create a relative balance between participents, my idea creates and enforce the balance, while encouraging more participents, and more variation in ships.



This is where it gets to , I dont understand why this is needed. Sisi is known to almost every player, mass testing warnings show up in the Calender from time to time. its on the loading splash page and in the eve news already, its not a lack of awareness thats keeping people from being on the test server. yes, people know that a test server exists, that doesn't mean people know how to, or even want to install a full client, the population of sis very rarely goes above 2000, which means, population wise, it's visited by maybe 204% of teh total eve population.

duels on the test server have no risk, and are often done just not in an official format, and as such leave open the possibility of fleet warpins and other random passerbys joining the fray. which is realistic to TQ pvp. many however are true 1v1 fights. but they dont teach us about anything. they have no meaning. winning or losing there is no isk loss or connection to the fight. the sis has rules against engaging in combat, point in fact, combat can only be done if it is agreed upon by both entities(according to the test server rules, which are still in effect)

The player run tournaments that you talk about have those heavy restrictions self imposed, to insure that the rules are followed, but there is always the possibility that some one will try to cheat, Just as in any other sporting event, people can and will cheat. Having a game mechanic that tries to limit this seems self defeating, when eve encourages asshattery, why limit it in this way? not sure the point you are trying to make here, but even player ran tournies have ways of punishing cheaters

Another thing about tournaments and expensive ships. Now that Officer gear and deadspace mods are seeded on the SiSi market, you can fit that Federation Issue Megathron that you've always wanted, or that Andrestia that you didnt win in the alliance tournament. again, a full 10 gig client just to test certain things, such as officer fit 1v1 pvp, is a huge ineffeciant waste.

I dont see any Arena mechanics coming into play that isn't just
A) E-peen measuring / gloating about how officer fit their ship is,
This already happens without the fighting, Usually in trade hub local chats. and in some rare and funny cases it happens with the fighting and killmails are linked and laughed at. epeen gloating will always exist on any media that has human players playing it, thats human nature, having, or not having a arena would do nothing to gloating

B) completely useless for teaching people how to fight.
Either your opponent will be honorable and fight on fair terms or they wont. All other fighting in EVE is on those terms, why create an environment that teaches the wrong things about the universe that we play in?everything a player is taught, can be the wrong thing, that again goes with the nature of player vs play combat, but teaching one thing, and saying it's wrong across the board is in itself wrong, it merely doesn't teach what you "think" it should teach, that doesn't make it wrong


please see bolded statements in quote
kardjaval
Curtana Joyeuse and Durendal Security
#80 - 2012-05-06 17:55:10 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
kardjaval wrote:

wow a more reasonable response then the others.

anyways, the benefit of this, is 1st, to increase the awareness, and participants in pvp 1v1 testing, currently sisi never gets more then 1% of the total eve population, furthermore, the risks associated with actual 1v1 duels, limits the availability, and the viability of player ran pvp tournaments in eve, no player is willing to risk a officer fit unique ship, furthermore, it puts all players, from the 5 day old newb, to the guy who was born back in '03, on a equal footing, skill wise, and even ship wise.

1v1 competitions are already popular, having been ran by numorous player corps all over eve, however, such competitions have heavy restrictions, overly expensive ships are never used, their may even be restrictions on the meta quality of equipped items, all in a attempt to create a relative balance between participents, my idea creates and enforce the balance, while encouraging more participents, and more variation in ships.



Now explain what part any of that has in EVE, a game of risks and of consequences.


oh yes, sisi is chalk full of risk and consequences isn't it?

the only reason this is receiving flak is because the majority of players don't like change, hell, just look at every single thread in the suggestion forums, a idea gets suggested, and instantly, you asinine ingrained pathetic wee boos come running and jumping at it, saying nothing beneficial to teh idea, and merely saying it's stupid, so **** it, why should anyone bother trying to improve the game , with you jackasses here.