Ships & Modules

tl;dr for you folks just joining;

OP asks if trans-racial cross training is it's own reward.

Response is yes.

OP insists nobody understands him, then merely goes on to re-frame the same question.

Response is yes.

Repeat ad infinitum, occasionally using the word 'sentimental' incorrectly.

If this saved you five minutes of reading, you know where to leave your ISK.

This was a public service announcement.

Flip side is two characters:
- 82M SP, cross trained into all subcaps with most T2 ship skills at 5
- 78M SP, pure Minmatar, almost perfect Nidhoggur pilot.

The 78M SP character is my main, but I almost never fly him now that I've got Liang so well trained in all subcaps. Even giving him the SP to make up the difference, he's 11M SP behind in just spaceship command alone. Cross training is its own highly effective reward. :)

-Liang

I hereby stop treating you like an adult until such time as you start quoting entire posts and stop trying to make false arguments

@ Liang: I d have to think your example through ... it is very complicated from where I stand so I can not say either way... If I knew more about the characters I migt be more inclined to comment...

My predicament is not that different form yours. I have two chars at about 70 mill (as a result of years not even bothering to set skills :D :D :D) each is two race specced roughly (Gallente and Minmattar with a heavy touch of Caldari for the one Ammar with Caldari for the other) ... and I find that there is little incentive to add races to each char... Cirmusmtancially here and there I might do it... Certainly the races have lost a lot of their unique flavor which further dissuades this. On he other hand if it was only one char I had access to I might see this differenty, though I doubt it....

Curse: the deadliest reccon and probably one of the best solo ships out there, I'd even say it's the BEST provided you have the very heavy skill set necessary to full fly it with only elite certificates.
Pilgrim, another small gang/fleet monster, you can now fly another set of reccons that are really awesome and WILL be the best choice you could do in certain op's you'll do.

I'm sorry you can't see the advantage of this, plus you have now Amarr cruiser at 5 that gives you better bonus on your Blood Raiders ships. Sure you don't need that lvl5 but having it is awesome.



Ho mighty, you just unlock the powerfull scorch APOC, did you ever heard about this monster? -simply a monster.
Another monster: Abbadon wich is the BEST T1 armour tank battleship out there dishing a dam decent DPS
Another monster: Bhaalgorn, jesus did you ever looked at what distance you can cap out a battleship or several cruisers with this stuff? -it a game changer and an unique powerfull game changer with this kind of ability

Once again, you are just looking at a Rembrandt picture, but you can only see the colours but not the message. It's hard, not to say impossible, for me to explain this to you. If you DON'T want to see the benefit, there's no argument capable of changing your mind.

Well I can not give a yes or no answer so excuse the wall of text:

(a) I am acknowledging the benefit. I am disputing the value of the benefit compared with the alternatives.

(b) I agree that your position (where you are now) is valed and many share it. I myself chose to avoid capitals a LOT longer than others in my corporation back in the Art Of War days. Therefore if races v classes came down to only "all sub-caps OR two races sub caps and caps" perhaps many people would be on your side of thinking (I am not aware of statistics but I note a large number of capitals on TQ flown by characters with a lot less than 100 mill SP).

(c) races v classes however is an ongoing issure not (IMO) accurately represented by the "all sub caps first or caps first question". IMO you have to look at slices. On your way to where you are now, if I was to take photos of your skillsheet as you progressed from mill to mill (SP) what would I see? Did you:

- first do all frigates to 5, or first trained a ceptor or AF or a cruiser before goign for the other races' frigates?
- Did you finish all cruiser 5s before going for BC.
-Did you learn to fly all 8 HACs before getting Reckon and Hictor.
- Did you first get all BSs skills to 5 before baking Marauder or Bops skill? (ok this is likely because you could have had them before there was a Marauder or Bops skill... pretend otherwise :P )

and many many more questions like this. Some might answer yes to most of the above questions but I ll wager it will be very vfew people... I have been in corps and alliances all the time I have palyed eve and I ahve never met a guys who adamantly first went for all 4 races in every class. I have met many who took pride in single class chars (even in the days before Amr had drone ships and missile ships lol) and the vast majority who had most classes in one or two races before thining of going for a thrid and seldomely a fourth in their favourite ships.

This is what makes me think that there shoudl be a discernible even if small advantage conferred by going all the way to the foruth race in every ship class. Perhaps in the sense that to be "endgame" (lol at word) in cruisers one would have to have all races cruisers trained at 5. Ok the advantage could be nominal... say cruiser proficiency confers 5% (flat) better cap for your cruisers, i.e. half of what you get from a tech I rig, woo hoo! but something.

Most people posting in this thread I think were under the idea of bittervet having trained everything looking for a reward but this is not the case. none of my chars can even fly all frigates. This is a "battle" I am fighting on principle if you like. I am one of those obnoxious people that are happy as clams with people disagreeing with them so long as they understand what it is they are disagreeign with... this is why I have had a protracted disagreement with some here. I hope I have explained myself helpfully in your mind and thank you for posting in a contructive way in this thread...

As this is my main it has shown me one thing that is kind rough, If your caldari getting minmatar is kinda low on your list. Main reasons no cal/min pie ship, just more shield, missile, and armour and ammar and gallente have already given me better. The only thing I will gain is blood raiders, serpentis, and angels hulls and for 2 of thouse I wont need a new gun, just the hull skill to use them.
I don't like this cheep-o-timmy power gamer ship but amarr/gallente and minmatar/caldari pie hulls would be nice.

Can you fly Battleships, BCs, any HACs, AFs, Reckons, etc or are you waiting till you have all frigs and cruisers to start this?

Edit: From a search I see you can fly Iteron 5 and that you use haulers a lot. Did you find it helpful to train all races haulers to 5, to have the great reward of versatility or did you only do Gallente?

I believe the reward for getting all 4 racial whatever to 5 is called "being able to effectively use all 4 damage types and weapon styles".

Yes I know you say more afterwards but it was not necessary. My question was more than answered by these first two sentences.

You think there might be a reason why you want all the way up to freighter and you only plan at some time in the future to do the other races to 5 and then their transports and later their freighters presumably?

You think if training all haulers to 5 gave your Iteron +20% cargo (arbitrary number) you might be more tampted completing that before moving on to Freighter?

See how this conversation has a way of making you see things differently sometimes?

If you feel like it post what sort of bonus to your Iteron 5 from training all races Indys to 5 would have convinced you to do that before going for a freighter or Transport.

Edit: I am asking you this because the thread is not about what is rewarding (or not) but rather about what is "more" rewarding, hence it is about "balancing".

terrible, terrible, terrible idea

EVE doesn t really need more unbalanced and OP ships that presumably will be used only by few with high skill and a large wallet

repeat myself: terrible terrible terrible idea