Crime & Punishment

As a pvp'er and a sometimes miner (when I get so bored with life looking at rocks just floats my boat). I think this is NOT an exploit.

So this whole thread is discussing something that may or may not be an exploit (but is mostly a silly tactic to buff up killboards but I'll refrain from going down that road atm) and you are openly discussing it and talking about the CCP devs like they don't read this? The original locked thread reads to me like a "nerds guide to cheating CONCORD" there are maths there are explanations of theory and you guys are wondering if by posting that you are gonna force CCP's hand in doing some kind of nerf? XD

CCP you were quick enough to lock the thread how about being quick in providing us an answer? Literally all we need is someone with a red tag saying GM to come and say yes it is an exploit or no it is not an exploit.

The problem there is that evading concord is not well defined. See CCP Guard's post in the locked thread.

@ James: It is possible to warp away. It is an exploit, if you do it for long enough, so that your GCC wears off and you are no longer pursuited by CONCORD. That's what i was saying. That doesn't mean, that it is an exploit if you warp away a few times but get blown up in the end.

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I don't have a source right now, but i think i remember a statement, that cleary said: You can warp off, and unless your ship gets destroyed, it's totally okay. It hasn't to be destroyed at the same location where the crime has been comitted.


And as we're onto this,


Dear Mr. CCP Guard,

Please ask your Game Master Friends, if this policy concerning the GCC and the destruction of Ships apply to the GCC in GENERAL, or to the GCC inflicted by, for example, CONCORD SWAT, who show up when you have a security status not tolerated in the current System. Cause, as of not long ago, i made a shopping trip into 0.8 with a shuttle, cause you know, my sec status was kinda bad at that moment and i had the Concord Swat show up, as i jumped in in mky shuttle. Totally okay, i don't have a GCC, i'm just having a low sec status. So i docked up, got my 2 modules, stored them in the Shuttle, undocked, Concord Swat showed up, i warped away and jumped back into 0.6 where i was safe.

THEN i asked my self: Well, that ain't the same Concord that shows up when you commit a Crime (read: gank someone), it's actually CONCORD Swat! What happens, if THOSE guys agress me?

So i jumped back into 0.8, aligned to a planet and waited for the CONCORD Swat to agress me. It were i guess 2 Cruisers and a frigate. The frigate locked me first, landed a blow which took my shuttle into armor, but didn't point, and i imediately initiated warp. So my shuttle was warping away. Note: It took around 2 seconds for the frig to lock me up. And you know, shuttles align pretty fast and enter warp pretty fast. However, since the Concord Swat Frigate shot me, i had a GCC now, and i got blown up at the planet when i recognized it, cause no sense trying to jump out with GCC.

Now mack to my question: Would it be considered an exploit HERE, if i evaded Concord Swat for 15 minutes until my GCC wears off? I didn't commit any crime, i didn't harm anyone so there shouldn't be the need of my ship being blown up, now should it?

This is really the key part that needs to be answered. Preferably by a senior GM so we don't have to worry about it going back in forth again in the future.

If the above is okay then the boomerang maneuver should be fine, warping about the system on a crime spree until the police (concord) kills you. Its sort of like a high speed chase in space.

E: Actually we need two rulings.

Is it okay or not okay to refit our ship with an orca mid GCC?

Is it okay or not okay to warp away in order to have more time to execute more ganks before concord catches us?

Yeah, i'm sorry for capsing all over, maybe should have made it bold.

And: In your scenario, you are implying that there is an infinite amount of targets to be shot.
However, if you warp in your belt 2 or 3 times, i dont think there are many potential targets left, that can be blown up before reinitiating warp. Same for the Freighters, you can't say that there is always a freighter at a gate. Of course, there are many freighters around, but if you check the killmails, you can see, most of the Tornados are hitting 2 or even 3 volleys, with a good part of the gang already being taken down by concord when the freighter finally blows up. So no chance of escaping here and ganking another freighter and so on. See this KM: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12791044

Note how it is in 0.5, so they have maximum time before Concord shows up.

Main problem I have with this...(well, other than your flawed assumption that 'warping out' is automatically an exploit)

...is that warping out is a totally reasonable self-defense mechanism for outlaw alts.
Any player can engage you - and any player can loot your blue wreck.
Any player can pop your pod (and its even easier now that you are forbidden to eject...)

Warping out after a gank allows your -10 character to avoid nasty, one-sided fights with other players while Concord holds you down and renders you helpless for 10-15 seconds. Until a few days ago, you could eject from a doomed ship before you are Concorded which allowed a pirate to make his escape, ahead of outlaw podding opportunists. Not anymore. So if anything, warping off is even MORE vital. Further, it also allows you to recover your own mods at a Safe-spot, Orca or no, rather than in the middle of a throng of pissed off carebears (and associated opportunists).

Secondly, a lot of nonsense out there. There is no 'infinite' gank loop here. Anyone who has actually DONE this a few (hundred) times will quickly see that. Though I suppose its always easier to just to make things up and spout off without any actual knowledge in order to promote an agenda.

With maximum skills, 5% hardwire and lvl V Skirmish gangboosts:
In 0.7 systems:
-You can ALWAYS execute one additional warp in 0.7 for two volleys.
-MOST of the time, you can execute two additional warps for three volleys, but you have to do it properly - as I described.
In 0.6 systems:
You can ALWAYS execute 2 additional warps for three volleys.
-SOMETIMES you can execute 3 additional warps for four volleys.

I am not sure about 0.5, but I doubt it is much different.


EDIT: Oh, and lastly - somebody was talking about using a ship 50x more expensive for a chance at multiple ganks.
That poster was comparing 1M ISK Catalysts (generally only good for 1 kill/GCC) to the 50M ISK Tornado. Not a 'rigged' Tornado vs an unrigged model. Though if you compare T2 Blaster Cats to T2 Tornados the price ratio (including mods) is something like 10M ISK for 1 solo gank vs 80M ISK for anywhere from 2-5 ganks per GCC.

If the GMs are so overburdened that they shed all rules concerning wardec exploits, then they certainly don't have time to be enforcing new rules on this. They shouldn't be selectively controlling exploits based on its impact on the carebears.

I gank because its a good way for a bunch of people to make money while having fun. I'm assuming that's the same thought process in a mining op but feel free to correct me once you figure out the shift key and the space bar.



Or you know, they could let us know what is and isn't an exploit related to this in this thread so we can avoid exploiting which will decrease their work load.