Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This isn't a complaint thread, but after reading the idea for "sub-hunters" in the latest CSM minutes, I wanted a place to put down the idea that I have so it could be referenced now/in the future.

CCP has stated its interest in creating a way to hunt down cloaked ships. I've had this idea for a while, but I don’t think I’ve ever dedicated a thread to it. Mostly I developed this idea in response to the “make cloaking devices take fuel/capacitor” ideas. I felt that the cloaking device itself didn’t need a change and would rather see new gameplay, roles, ships, and skill introduced, offering a wider variety of combat to eve players.

With this in mind I also didn’t want to destroy the role of covert ops as scouts, bombers, covert cynos, etc. My goal was to eliminate the “AFK cloaker”, mostly because I feel everything in eve should have a counter and nobody should be 100% safe, especially in space surrounded by hundreds of reds. In my mind there is something wrong about logging into eve, cloaking up at a safespot, and going to work/school/out drinking and still having an impact on gameplay because at any moment you could come back to the keyboard and light a covert cyno. The covert ops class/module is fine, so long as it has a counter.

The exact details of my suggestion can of course be tweeked, such as the ship used and the time it takes, but here’s the example.

First, I think this would be a great role for another T2 destroyer class. Destroyers just seem to “fit” the role of sub hunter. They’re pretty small and agile without quite being a frigate, they don’t have a ton of tank, but they can put out a decent amount of DPS. Plus… Destroyer! So we need a new T2 Destroyer class that can fit new probes/probe launcher. CCP could use the current expanded probe launcher and give the T2 destroyer a bonus to using it, or we could have a new one complete with new skills. A new type of probe charge would be needed.

These new probes have a 10 minute cycle time (They could also be 10-15 minutes, adjustable by skill level and/or ship bonus). That is, from the moment you hit scan, the scan takes 10 minutes to complete. There is no signal strength to this probe, it is always 100% on any cloaked object it finds. To successfully find one though the cloaked object cannot have changed grid and must be in the radius of at least 4 probes (to give you a single point). These probes are 64 AU, large enough to scan a small system in one swipe, but it could make scanning larger systems difficult.

Here are the reasons for some of this. The 10 minutes gives a scout plenty of time to change grids. All they would have to do, if they were active and at the keyboard, is warp to a planet and back to the gate or whatever they are watching. Probes will not find them. However, someone that is AFK will not have changed grids during this time. Signal strength always at 100 (as long as 4 probes get a hit) because, with a 10 minute scan time, trying to narrow a target down would take ages.

Once a signature is hit on you can warp to it. Once you land you still need to decloak the target though. So this favors small fleets working together, interceptors and the like spreading out on landing and people assigning drones to them so they can try to decloak the target. Signature location is given for where the target is at the end of the 10 minute cycle time. So an AFK cloaked target that was burning in some direction would have a head start (depending on the distance the fleet had to warp), but could still be found if ships spread out quick enough.

I think this makes cloaked ships virtually invulnerable so long as they are at the keyboard. Even if they stayed on grid for 10 minutes they could warp when the fleet is spotted on d-scan, or when they land and just aren’t in range to decloak. However, it makes it fairly easy to find a target that’s AFK and just burning in one direction.

Any specific reason why? Would you object to a base 15 and the ability to, say, lower it by 1 minute/skill level?


Again, why? I guess I don't really care mostly because probes are cheap as all hell and you can pack hundreds of them in a ship. Not to mention if you're hunting down a cloaked target, your probably in a system where you can dock and get more anyway. I guess I just don't see much of a point in changing this mechanic to be different than the rest of the probes.


I've heard this argument before, my counter argument is that if you are going to start with the assumption that things like this will be scripted then we need to throw out half of the game play that already exists (mining, ratting, market orders, couriers, etc). A bot as it stands could already be make to warp from safespot to safespot, constantly creating new ones in warp. It would be almost impossible to find if it didn't reuse these. You could have to scan it down and warp to it and get tackle before it warped to it's next safe. I guess my point is that content should not be tossed out on the basis of the possibility of bots. If there's other problems with the idea so be it, but I don't think this is a illegitimate one.

One reason I would like it to stay at 10 mins or so is so ships that aren't covert ops, but still have a cloaking device have plenty of chances to move around. Remember, while they have to warp decloaked all they have to do is decloak, warp to a new safe, cloak back up soon as they land, it should still be -very- difficult to find you. Still, this is an example of where you could tweek times and distances without affecting the overall idea. I think it would be best left up to CCP after some serious feedback from the players/CSM if they went with this idea. i.e. my response to this part is leave it up to the pros at game balancing.


This is true, you'd be scanned down on the first attempt, UNLESS you were at your keyboard and just warped to a new gate or celestial every 9 mins, 59 secs. Personally I don't see a problem with finding someone on the first attempt if they aren't making an effort to move around (which shouldn't be difficult). Again though, I think this would take some balancing that's better done by pros.


At the end of the scan. The theory behind this is that a bomber can easily do 400 m/s while cloaked. If it was from the start of the scan this would be 10mins*60sec/min*400m/s=240,000m, or 240km from the spot he was at when you started scanning. I'm pretty bad at math, but I think the volume of a sphere 240,000m in radius is 5.7 something to the 16th power. The mechanic would be pointless, you'd still never be able to find a cloaked target.

The problem is that it doesn't address the reason AFK cloakers AFK cloak in the first place.


If a single neutral comes into LOCAL in a 0.0 system, all the carebears in the system safe up/dock/log until the threat leaves. They will usually stay safed for hours even if the neutral remains cloaked. The moment the neutral leaves local, they resume what ever it was they were doing.

The OP says that everything in eve should have a counter, but the only effective counter to players who use Local as an intel tool is AFK cloaking. Without some balance that reduces the ability to use local as a perfectly accurate intel tool, carebears will be far to safe...

Edit: Actually, this approach could be the solution if you also removed local. Deploy scouts to the gates, do your anti cloaky scan, and then as long as your scouts are watching for gate fires, you know the system is free of cloaked ships. (Unless the log in afterwards, but your only trying to deal with people online)

Removing local would intensify the danger level of null-sec and increase the intel difficulty... to a WH level... and there will be even less players there...

In fact, the use of local for intel is not a good excuse for its removal... everyone uses, including you, and it intensifies PVP, because you know that there are people there to hunt.

Also in WH Space, where there are no local, if there are a Intell system ( people watching the WH entrance becouse you live in a community there with POSses and Custom offices ...) there are AFK cloakers... and they act the same way, asking ransom, killing industrial ships, poding, killing minning barges, talking hi in local every hour and whatever... to people knows that he is there...

So, if you think that some group are carebers, good, so go take their system! you should make a fleet, and UNCLOAKED inside the system, bash their POS, kill their ships and what ever. PLAY the game. Use a recon to gather intel and and cyno people in! AFK cloaking just hurts the game!

And you are wrong about how people act. If an afk cloaker stays in a system for 6 days and the alliance only have 1 system then people will start stop playing EVE, and playing other games, until the point that they will not resume playing, and we only lose with this... we have lass people to kill/play with... this make EVE UNIVERSE less rich...

Also Afk cloaking is as damaging to the game as a BOT... both do their role as players are away not playing...

---

Althoug you have your point, The last CSM discussed It.... And they decided that the local as a intell toll the way it is must go...as the cloak hunter ship appearing must happen ... It is not a matter of "IF" but a matter of "HOW and WHEN".

So what we need to ask CCP is WHEN it will be this WHEN!

ummm...if they are afk...what exaclty is the problem. YOu too are 100% safe.

Try ratting with a known afk cloaky in system. Its great. Had one a few ttimes, fun times. 2 server shutdowns unplanned in like 3 days so I knew for sure he was afk since he didn['t come back until after dt (I play oceanic tz). Was very happy about it. Its like staking a claim to your own belt system. Leave to go pick up the wreck cleaner...he stays there and scares off any who would jump in "my" system. Clean my loot up....my unknowing scarecrow does his job again while I get back in the ratter. Man has to make his isk, right? lol.

This idea would also break non-covert ops cloaks...

How is a non-afk player supposed to stay cloaked if they cannot warp off grid without decloaking?