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Incoming titan adjustments

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Triskian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2141 - 2012-03-15 09:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Triskian
All I really know is that it's 5:07am and I am out of beer. That's the real tragedy here.
Sirhan Blixt
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2142 - 2012-03-15 09:18:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sirhan Blixt
Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
there are just too many trolls around here. i dont know why CCP is letting those cluleless goonswarm trolls make troll posts at almost every post giving opinions and feedbacks about the incomming titan adjustments that are not from their own, without any legimate reason.

please remove idiotic posts here so that people would actually read other peoples feedbacks and react by agreeing, disagreeing, leaving feedback of a feedback without trolling.

Starting with this one right here.

You keep using the word "trolling." I do not think it means what you think it means. In fact, I'm sure of it. At least, I'm pretty sure that "trolling" does not mean "giving valid answers that Titan Keeper 22 does not want."

Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
back on my previous posts, you goon idiots couldn't even deny a single fact about what i said with a reason, but instead kept on trolling like kids straight out of kindergarten.

"Couldn't deny a single fact" does not mean "wouldn't agree with my pants-on-head stupid rantings." Your rantings. Which are stupid. Pants-on-head stupid.

Actually, when someone shows your level of willful obtuseness, I begin to believe that it is actually they that are trolling. I suppose you could prove me wrong. I just don't think it's likely.

bl4ckL0tus wrote:
dont tell me goons dont have isk to do that its jst fc are cowards to fight in that way cos if they fail once they can get alot of bshit for how crap they were ... isntead jst ordering waves of drakes/maels trying repeatedly t odo the same thing ...
one wise man once said : those who cannot adapt become victims of evolution ...

If it takes me longer to read your drivel than it took you to type it, I just can't friggin' be bothered. Sorry.
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2143 - 2012-03-15 09:38:31 UTC
If we could add alliances to the ignore on forums ;(
Tector
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2144 - 2012-03-15 09:52:15 UTC
I think a very important point to consider here is the massive roadblock a supercapital fleet presents to an alliance attempting to carve a niche for itself in 0.0. It is simply not possible for an alliance with very few or no supercapitals to seriously contest sov against an entrenched alliance and its supercapital fleet. Numbers can be neutralized via bombers or various fleet doctrines, but there is virtually no counter for titans as they stood, save for even more titans. Supercapital pilots are for the most part no different in attitude from the grognards in BoB that felt that someone had no right to be in 0.0 unless they had at least 25m SP.

Rebalancing supercapitals, and with any luck the sov system too, will allow new blood to come into 0.0.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2145 - 2012-03-15 09:59:18 UTC
Tector wrote:
I think a very important point to consider here is the massive roadblock a supercapital fleet presents to an alliance attempting to carve a niche for itself in 0.0. It is simply not possible for an alliance with very few or no supercapitals to seriously contest sov against an entrenched alliance and its supercapital fleet. Numbers can be neutralized via bombers or various fleet doctrines, but there is virtually no counter for titans as they stood, save for even more titans. Supercapital pilots are for the most part no different in attitude from the grognards in BoB that felt that someone had no right to be in 0.0 unless they had at least 25m SP.

Rebalancing supercapitals, and with any luck the sov system too, will allow new blood to come into 0.0.


Evoke + Cloud ring back in 2010/2011 = ... what exactly?

Let me make this clear:

Tector wrote:
I think a very important point to consider here is the massive roadblock a 1000+ fleet presents to an alliance attempting to carve a niche for itself in 0.0. It is simply not possible for an alliance with very few or no manpower to seriously contest sov against an entrenched alliance and its drake/Mael fleet. Numbers can be neutralized via bombers or various fleet doctrines, but there is virtually no counter for superior numbers as they stand, save for even more people in subcaps. Subcap pilots are for the most part no different in attitude from the grognards in GSF that felt that someone had no right to be in 0.0 unless they had at least 25 SP.

Rebalancing fleet limits, and with any luck the sov system too, will allow new blood to come into 0.0.


Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Sigras
Conglomo
#2146 - 2012-03-15 09:59:43 UTC
Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
when i meant end game content, it was based on what the majority of people that play PC/Console games think.

Because the idiotic console gamers (of which I assume you are one) is the standard we want to lower ourselves to.

Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
one of you say that FC'ing is the end game? well there are other games that have the very similar to FC'ing available. but how many of that game's players think of that as the end-game? i'm thinking around 0.01~0.0001% of players.

The number of people who think any activity is an "end game" doesnt matter at all. Eve is a game where you make your own "end game" if you want a game where they hold your hand and tell you, you've done a good job when you reach max level WoW is ==========> this way

Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
eve is a game where you fly ships mostly especially combat ships; more than 80% of the ships are combat ships anyways. everything, manufacturing, researching, trading, exploring, pve'ing leads to what? combat ships, PvP. and now, whats the most expensive, and with the best attribute combat ship in game? a titan.

now which content, which ship, should be the end-game?

you Goonswarm and CFC just cannot think outside the mittani box, can you?

This is one way of looking at the game, and honestly, it isnt at all how I describe the game to people; to me Eve is all about economy and manufacturing. An alliance conquers space in order to get the ability to earn more faster, and to produce their own caps/supercaps. Combat is just a means to an end, but not the purpose of the game.

A sandbox means everyone is free to pursue their own idea of what the end game is, and your pursuit of your end game is not allowed to step on my idea of an end game.

Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
everything, every single thoughts and words of you Goonswarm/CFC members are based on mittani's thinking box. he is smart, he has power, and he's playing mindgames with all of you. yet none of you GW/CFC understands and realizes about it. even if one do so, you are denying for your own benefit.

you keep trying hard to make eve like a casual game after 10years and with your number, and conspiracy going on, yes the game will change towards your benefiting point.


Yep, not a goon, in fact im opposed to the entire idea behind their alliance, but im able to rationally think though things and come to the same conclusion.

The only thing that I hope dies is the stupid idea that Eve needs a definite confirmed "end game"
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2147 - 2012-03-15 10:08:40 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Tector wrote:
I think a very important point to consider here is the massive roadblock a supercapital fleet presents to an alliance attempting to carve a niche for itself in 0.0. It is simply not possible for an alliance with very few or no supercapitals to seriously contest sov against an entrenched alliance and its supercapital fleet. Numbers can be neutralized via bombers or various fleet doctrines, but there is virtually no counter for titans as they stood, save for even more titans. Supercapital pilots are for the most part no different in attitude from the grognards in BoB that felt that someone had no right to be in 0.0 unless they had at least 25m SP.

Rebalancing supercapitals, and with any luck the sov system too, will allow new blood to come into 0.0.


Evoke + Cloud ring back in 2010/2011 = ... what exactly?

Let me make this clear:

Tector wrote:
I think a very important point to consider here is the massive roadblock a 1000+ fleet presents to an alliance attempting to carve a niche for itself in 0.0. It is simply not possible for an alliance with very few or no manpower to seriously contest sov against an entrenched alliance and its drake/Mael fleet. Numbers can be neutralized via bombers or various fleet doctrines, but there is virtually no counter for superior numbers as they stand, save for even more people in subcaps. Subcap pilots are for the most part no different in attitude from the grognards in GSF that felt that someone had no right to be in 0.0 unless they had at least 25 SP.

Rebalancing fleet limits, and with any luck the sov system too, will allow new blood to come into 0.0.




let's assume that only these two extremes were possible

do you prefer large-scale engagements to be decided by 20 or 1000+?

hmm i think i'm going with 1000+

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#2148 - 2012-03-15 10:19:34 UTC
I should have bought stock in the aluminum industry the moment I saw this thread go up.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2149 - 2012-03-15 10:29:12 UTC  |  Edited by: GallowsCalibrator
Headerman wrote:
Tector wrote:
I think a very important point to consider here is the massive roadblock a supercapital fleet presents to an alliance attempting to carve a niche for itself in 0.0. It is simply not possible for an alliance with very few or no supercapitals to seriously contest sov against an entrenched alliance and its supercapital fleet. Numbers can be neutralized via bombers or various fleet doctrines, but there is virtually no counter for titans as they stood, save for even more titans. Supercapital pilots are for the most part no different in attitude from the grognards in BoB that felt that someone had no right to be in 0.0 unless they had at least 25m SP.

Rebalancing supercapitals, and with any luck the sov system too, will allow new blood to come into 0.0.


Evoke + Cloud ring back in 2010/2011 = ... what exactly?

Let me make this clear:

Tector wrote:
I think a very important point to consider here is the massive roadblock a 1000+ fleet presents to an alliance attempting to carve a niche for itself in 0.0. It is simply not possible for an alliance with very few or no manpower to seriously contest sov against an entrenched alliance and its drake/Mael fleet. Numbers can be neutralized via bombers or various fleet doctrines, but there is virtually no counter for superior numbers as they stand, save for even more people in subcaps. Subcap pilots are for the most part no different in attitude from the grognards in GSF that felt that someone had no right to be in 0.0 unless they had at least 25 SP.

Rebalancing fleet limits, and with any luck the sov system too, will allow new blood to come into 0.0.




I like the part where you leave the solution to numbers in your 'fixed' version regarding numbers (EG: That they have a counter that isn't 'bring more'), so actually proving the point.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2150 - 2012-03-15 10:36:10 UTC
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
Headerman wrote:
Tector wrote:
I think a very important point to consider here is the massive roadblock a supercapital fleet presents to an alliance attempting to carve a niche for itself in 0.0. It is simply not possible for an alliance with very few or no supercapitals to seriously contest sov against an entrenched alliance and its supercapital fleet. Numbers can be neutralized via bombers or various fleet doctrines, but there is virtually no counter for titans as they stood, save for even more titans. Supercapital pilots are for the most part no different in attitude from the grognards in BoB that felt that someone had no right to be in 0.0 unless they had at least 25m SP.

Rebalancing supercapitals, and with any luck the sov system too, will allow new blood to come into 0.0.


Evoke + Cloud ring back in 2010/2011 = ... what exactly?

Let me make this clear:

Tector wrote:
I think a very important point to consider here is the massive roadblock a 1000+ fleet presents to an alliance attempting to carve a niche for itself in 0.0. It is simply not possible for an alliance with very few or no manpower to seriously contest sov against an entrenched alliance and its drake/Mael fleet. Numbers can be neutralized via bombers or various fleet doctrines, but there is virtually no counter for superior numbers as they stand, save for even more people in subcaps. Subcap pilots are for the most part no different in attitude from the grognards in GSF that felt that someone had no right to be in 0.0 unless they had at least 25 SP.

Rebalancing fleet limits, and with any luck the sov system too, will allow new blood to come into 0.0.




I like the part where you leave the solution to numbers in your 'fixed' version regarding numbers (EG: That they have a counter that isn't 'bring more'), so actually proving the point.


And that point was "but there is virtually no counter for superior numbers as they stand".

And for Andski, i think i would much rather (in an ideal world) see a 50-100 man gang Vs similar numbers, or a handful of carriers for the fun of it.

Having been in a RR carrier gang of 6, we nearly lost to a 50 man gang or so. They are pretty exciting battles :)

But back on topic though, Has a Mael/drake blob won battles where a titan blob was involved?

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GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2151 - 2012-03-15 10:47:20 UTC
Headerman wrote:

And that point was "but there is virtually no counter for superior numbers as they stand".

Whoooooosh. Read your own post again.

Effective, repeatable counters to Titans/Supercapitals that don't require more Titans/Supercapitals: 0.
Effective, repeatable counters to numbers of players that don't require more players: > 0. (And actually quite a few if you spend more than five minutes thinking about it. They might be risky, though!)

That is what you have just posted.

Yeah, more opportunities for small fights would be great, especially with mixed fleets! Unfortunately the current Sov system doesn't work that way. Also, a Titan fleet is the exact opposite of a mixed fleet.
asdf ghyj
Zorg Solutions
#2152 - 2012-03-15 10:51:27 UTC
nerf TEMPEST pls they lose against tempest now

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12745045

GOONS stop cry about nerf ships , l2p maybe
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2153 - 2012-03-15 10:51:40 UTC
Headerman wrote:
And that point was "but there is virtually no counter for superior numbers as they stand".

And for Andski, i think i would much rather (in an ideal world) see a 50-100 man gang Vs similar numbers, or a handful of carriers for the fun of it.

Having been in a RR carrier gang of 6, we nearly lost to a 50 man gang or so. They are pretty exciting battles :)

But back on topic though, Has a Mael/drake blob won battles where a titan blob was involved?


naaaaaah i'm asking you which of those two extremes (you know, because it's clearly not a false dilemma) is more reasonable

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Cyaron wars
Academia RED HOT Corporation
#2154 - 2012-03-15 10:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyaron wars
you are all missing main point of current game mechanics that is broken.
Every fleet based on numbers has it's counter based on SP and ISK. Bringing 100 rifters with logistics will be countered by bringing 20 vagabonds with less logistics.
So let's assume Fleet A is T1 frigate, Fleet B is Hacs, Fleet C is battleships. So every fleet can be countered by fleet of less size but higher SP, u can always field something that requires less numbers but more SP/ISK and that something will be only like 1 rank higher then hostile fleet .
This is how it looks like: frigs > cruisers > BCs > BS > Capitals > Supercapitals > Titans. Current mechanics is good up intil BS. there is a huuuuuge gap between BS and titan. U can say that capitals are under powered and that's why they are not used or state that titans and supers are overpowered and should be nerfed. In any case this is not solving major issue - Gap between BS and a Titan. Fill that missing point and game become much better.

I've to admit - CCP Sucks in game balance. I remember same way ppl where whining about atlas capitals, so ccp created another ship to counter them. After ppl were whining about supers, now titans. in any case tweaking 1 certain ship will never fix game. If you want to fix something to and review all ships that are affected by tracking titans. I would also say that Signature stuff is kinda bullshit, ship size doesn't change by turning MWD on. So how can missile do more damage to same ship w MWD on and less damage w MWD off?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2155 - 2012-03-15 10:52:41 UTC
asdf ghyj wrote:
nerf TEMPEST pls they lose against tempest now

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12745045

GOONS stop cry about nerf ships , l2p maybe


wow 6 capitals

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12522897

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Sendo Jarix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2156 - 2012-03-15 10:53:04 UTC
If there is one thing I've learnt from this thread it's that the majority of the games Titan's seem to be in NPC corps.
Cyaron wars
Academia RED HOT Corporation
#2157 - 2012-03-15 10:55:49 UTC
Andski wrote:
asdf ghyj wrote:
nerf TEMPEST pls they lose against tempest now

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12745045

GOONS stop cry about nerf ships , l2p maybe


wow 6 capitals

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12522897



now this is awesome. This is how supers and titans should be used. They made what they were designed for by CCP - Obliterate capital ships.
asdf ghyj
Zorg Solutions
#2158 - 2012-03-15 10:56:13 UTC
Andski wrote:
asdf ghyj wrote:
nerf TEMPEST pls they lose against tempest now

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12745045

GOONS stop cry about nerf ships , l2p maybe


wow 6 capitals

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12522897


If u guys are so PRO why cry to CCP to nerf ships ?? cuz cant kill Raiden & Co
What u guys do now i do when i have 4 year and some1 take my toys and i start cry : MOM ( CCP) some one take my toys pls help me
GOONS = PENIBLE
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2159 - 2012-03-15 11:02:09 UTC
Cyaron wars wrote:
you are all missing main point of current game mechanics that is broken.
Every fleet based on numbers has it's counter based on SP and ISK. Bringing 100 rifters with logistics will be countered by bringing 20 vagabonds with less logistics.
So let's assume Fleet A is T1 frigate, Fleet B is Hacs, Fleet C is battleships. So every fleet can be countered by fleet of less size but higher SP, u can always field something that requires less numbers but more SP/ISK and that something will be only like 1 rank higher then hostile fleet .
This is how it looks like: frigs > cruisers > BCs > BS > Capitals > Supercapitals > Titans. Current mechanics is good up intil BS. there is a huuuuuge gap between BS and titan. U can say that capitals are under powered and that's why they are not used or state that titans and supers are overpowered and should be nerfed. In any case this is not solving major issue - Gap between BS and a Titan. Fill that missing point and game everybody will be happy.


hey tell me what happens when you throw maelstroms and logis at hacs

let me save you some time: they get murdered by the hacs

add some lokis, huginns, lachesis and dictors into the mix and, hey, the hacs die in a fire

"fleet composition"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2160 - 2012-03-15 11:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
asdf ghyj wrote:


If u guys are so PRO why cry to CCP to nerf ships ?? cuz cant kill Raiden & Co
What u guys do now i do when i have 4 year and some1 take my toys and i start cry : MOM ( CCP) some one take my toys pls help me
GOONS = PENIBLE


We are burning raiden into the ground anyway (again), we make our case on behalf of the tens of thousands who have suffered at the hands of three powerblocks who have abused titans. CCP agree with us and have seen fit to fix titans (again).

The only people shedding tears are the three blocks who abused it and their neutral alts.