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Incoming titan adjustments

First post First post
Author
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2001 - 2012-03-14 23:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
I'd just like to point out that, using current ship/mod data, a somewhat ganky Rag (Tank mids but for one sebo, DC II, 2x gyro, 1x TE, 2x CN PDS in the lows) using faction +tracking ammo, does:


  • zero dps to a non-MWDing cruiser out to ~50km, and peaks at ~250 dps at 100km
  • Does under 500 dps to battleships that are closer than 20km (again, no prop) with essentially zero DPS until 10km
  • zero dps to a no-prop BC under 20km, peaks at ~1600 dps @ ~70km


Is this a tracking titan? No, but read on.

Obviously combat conditions are different from Pyfa graphs, but I doubt tracking needs to be nerfed by 50%, or that scan res needs to be reduced to the point where officer sebos are required to lock a tower in under a minute.

I think a 15-20% tracking reduction plus elimination of combat-refitting and a buff to tacklers is a better answer than "make another class of ships as awful as dreads." I made a whole post about it, because I care. Go flame me!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=81507&find=unread
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2002 - 2012-03-14 23:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Andski wrote:
again how do you propose that 50 titans shake off 10 "juggers" that nobody will fly because ahaha stupid gimmicks

try to answer that with less than 20 ellipses in one sentence


say i happen to like ellipses so meh get used to it...Lol

as for how would 50 titans shake these things off is... if all you brought is 50 titans and no support you deserve to go down in a blaze of glory...

yeah i also expect the game mechanics to be changed to add a diminishing returns for stacked applied damage and remote repair...
so alpha fleets wont be able to stack 400 maels alpha and be more effective then 40 maels alpha...

man the ellipses must really irk you Cool

as for you ad hominem/ straw man argument about my alleged play style and/or history... i have only one word to say to you! FREGE! Pirate

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2003 - 2012-03-14 23:48:18 UTC
Fun Fact:

It took almost a week for the anomaly nerf thread to get to page 100
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1487231&page=1

This one managed it in only two days.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2004 - 2012-03-14 23:56:06 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Andski wrote:
again how do you propose that 50 titans shake off 10 "juggers" that nobody will fly because ahaha stupid gimmicks

try to answer that with less than 20 ellipses in one sentence


say i happen to like ellipses so meh get used to it...Lol

as for how would 50 titans shake these things off is... if all you brought is 50 titans and no support you deserve to go down in a blaze of glory...

yeah i also expect the game mechanics to be changed to add a diminishing returns for stacked applied damage and remote repair...
so alpha fleets wont be able to stack 400 maels alpha and be more effective then 40 maels alpha...

man the ellipses must really irk you Cool

as for you ad hominem/ straw man argument about my alleged play style and/or history... i have only one word to say to you! FREGE! Pirate


the answer you're looking for is "they'd get doomsdayed"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Powers Sa
#2005 - 2012-03-15 00:00:28 UTC
Is this thread over yet?

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.

Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2006 - 2012-03-15 00:04:05 UTC
John Maynard Keynes wrote:
Fun Fact:

It took almost a week for the anomaly nerf thread to get to page 100
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1487231&page=1

This one managed it in only two days.

And remember that 50% of the posts here are Grath's :)
Alemanha Pereira
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Brave Collective
#2007 - 2012-03-15 00:05:07 UTC
Its clear to me Titan blobs are hated,

and so is Goon Subcap blobs

This leaves 1 common place, everyone hates some sort of blob

My proposition: Nerf blobs, make it where no more then 20 people can aggress in 1 system at a time.
Naturally you'll be able to lower structures HP too. [:twisted

If you really want to make it even more fool proof and easier to program, make it where no more then 20 peopl
can undock from a station in any 1 system.


also I am making an offer to purchase all titans owned by Raiden for an equal trade of a fully fitted Hurricane per titan
Since it's proven Goons can be killed by Hurricanes price on them has sky rocketed, I can only hold my offer in place 5minutes at a time

proof the caek is not a lie: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12743537

OFFER IS STILL VALID < i will edit this as I can still afford to purchase the expensive sky rocketing prices of Hurricanes.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2008 - 2012-03-15 00:05:36 UTC
Andski wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Andski wrote:
again how do you propose that 50 titans shake off 10 "juggers" that nobody will fly because ahaha stupid gimmicks

try to answer that with less than 20 ellipses in one sentence


say i happen to like ellipses so meh get used to it...Lol

as for how would 50 titans shake these things off is... if all you brought is 50 titans and no support you deserve to go down in a blaze of glory...

yeah i also expect the game mechanics to be changed to add a diminishing returns for stacked applied damage and remote repair...
so alpha fleets wont be able to stack 400 maels alpha and be more effective then 40 maels alpha...

man the ellipses must really irk you Cool

as for you ad hominem/ straw man argument about my alleged play style and/or history... i have only one word to say to you! FREGE! Pirate


the answer you're looking for is "they'd get doomsdayed"


i remember before titans got boosted you had fights with like 400 dreads... i think if you came with 300 dreads and 100 juggers you could take on the titan blob....
in the first min 50 ships die!
but then the juggers nuet the hell out of the sc's and titans and then no more rr or ddd's....
especially if you got (t3bc like ships that are the gap between bs's and cap ships that are the size of freighters, so they can go threw gates) that use capital weapons...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Dovinian
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2009 - 2012-03-15 00:17:48 UTC
Look at all these ******* nerds crying over spaceship pixels.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2010 - 2012-03-15 00:19:33 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
i remember before titans got boosted you had fights with like 400 dreads... i think if you came with 300 dreads and 100 juggers you could take on the titan blob....
in the first min 50 ships die!
but then the juggers nuet the hell out of the sc's and titans and then no more rr or ddd's....
especially if you got (t3bc like ships that are the gap between bs's and cap ships that are the size of freighters, so they can go threw gates) that use capital weapons...


juggers

you already came up with pubbie shorthand for a ship type that will never exist because it's dumb

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2011 - 2012-03-15 00:26:53 UTC
Alemanha Pereira wrote:
Its clear to me Titan blobs are hated,

and so is Goon Subcap blobs

This leaves 1 common place, everyone hates some sort of blob

My proposition: Nerf blobs, make it where no more then 20 people can aggress in 1 system at a time.
Naturally you'll be able to lower structures HP too. [:twisted

If you really want to make it even more fool proof and easier to program, make it where no more then 20 peopl
can undock from a station in any 1 system.


also I am making an offer to purchase all titans owned by Raiden for an equal trade of a fully fitted Hurricane per titan
Since it's proven Goons can be killed by Hurricanes price on them has sky rocketed, I can only hold my offer in place 5minutes at a time

proof the caek is not a lie: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12743537

OFFER IS STILL VALID < i will edit this as I can still afford to purchase the expensive sky rocketing prices of Hurricanes.


lol
Mathicluanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2012 - 2012-03-15 00:30:18 UTC
Combat capitals are stupid. Remove Titans and Supercarriers from the game and the Dread would actually become pretty balanced again. Its a ship with a specific, necessary role that has to commit to a fight and is vulnerable if not protected. Adding a combat capital is a terrible idea much like the original field command ships being better HACs was a terrible idea. It just creates a new baseline for combat ship and panders to the people who think their 05 regdate should give them in game advantage.
Titan Keeper 22
Doomheim
#2013 - 2012-03-15 00:35:50 UTC
I wish CCP start acting normal back again and remove all the troll posts - especially posts made by their friendly GoonSwarm buddies

anyways, -Mittani the criminal savior from DC- i hear that he has some good number of titans in his alliance too. so why didn't he actually use them to counter? is he scared of losing? does he not have ability to recruit capital pilots?

he went the easy way. since he never thought about looking at the future, and not have recruited enough veterans but instead just focused on growing larger and teaching them only how to fly hurricanes, maelstroms and troll; thus making himself and the alliance weak and vulernable to REAL all-out fights that involves subcapitals, capitals, supers and titans.


even if he had enough titan pilots, like couple pages ago, when he spit the word out of his own mouth, was he worried about isk loss if he had fielded supers/titans on fights? i hear that Goonswarm/CFC have just as many techmoons and more space sov than all PL RDN NC. combined. so he had said that the alliance spends isk for reimbursing ships that can be insured when those three typical titan abusing alliances also do.

oh, have i missed somthing? are they losing too many ships to cover both supcaps and super/titans? then they should either start limiting subcap reimbursement or fly their ships better.

the only reason this problem have happend is because that you Goonswarm and them CFC don't use capitals and supercapitals even when you have them. the titan/moms numbers will surely be keep rising and rising like there is no tomorrow if there aren't any fights(super/titan including capital fights.)

a lot of people and i myself here would surely be confused at reason why you're trying to turn those titans into totally useless waste of factor in game.

we'll since i'm aware that 99% of trolls tend to ignore the true facts and go on, i may let them do so.

and finally word directly pointed at CCP,

it wasn't your fault for this imbalanced state in EvE game mechanics; the game was driven by players. but atleast have mercy to not hit one part(end game players)users and favorite the other too much. you may nerf them as you wish, but please don't forget how much effort us titan pilots put in to get them. some may have gotten them easily, but some just have put thousands of hours and spent years to get to that point. reimburse of the loss i'd say, is very neccessary; just like most GoonSwarm and you might have agree'd on the fact that we are very, very small in numbers(only 0.03% of total players?), it wont affect the market or in any other way for reimbursing for the loss we are soon to be taking.
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2014 - 2012-03-15 00:36:09 UTC
Mathicluanna wrote:
Combat capitals are stupid. Remove Titans and Supercarriers from the game and the Dread would actually become pretty balanced again. Its a ship with a specific, necessary role that has to commit to a fight and is vulnerable if not protected. Adding a combat capital is a terrible idea much like the original field command ships being better HACs was a terrible idea. It just creates a new baseline for combat ship and panders to the people who think their 05 regdate should give them in game advantage.


B-b-b-b-but I have more S-S-S-SP than you do an-an-an-and I-I-I spent a lot-t-t-t on my t-t-t-titan.

I D-D-D-DESERVE IT.
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2015 - 2012-03-15 00:36:28 UTC
Why yes, that's my impression of the average Raidendot pilot, why do you ask?
Kyle Myr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2016 - 2012-03-15 00:48:06 UTC
Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
-snip-


Posts like this make me miss that Raiden. dude's posts. They at least had some points to respond to, as he expressed the frustration of being stuck in a hull that prevents him from flying other, fun ships.

EVE is a game where we can fly and lose spaceships fighting over anything at all. Titans detract from this by killing everything without being able to be killed in a reasonable fashion in return. If you want a more carefully thought out response, post on your main next time.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2017 - 2012-03-15 00:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
a bloo bloo bloo


i'm sorry that our alliance policy was never to recruit every mouthbreather with a pulse and a titan

this thread has shown that your sorry excuse for an alliance depended entirely on broken game mechanics to prop itself up - we'll see if you can disprove that "soon"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Katalci
Kismesis
#2018 - 2012-03-15 00:55:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Katalci
Titans were balanced just fine before this awful change. What is their combat use over a supercarrier, now?

Quote:
The scan res number is balanced around multiple Cormack's sensor boosters, on the assumption that money is not a limiting factor for titan pilots, and therefore that people will shell out for officer SBs if that lets them continue do this kind of thing.

Is this a troll? This is quite possibly the dumbest thing any CCP employee has ever said. Do you think that there's some infinite supply of these, where every titan can have several of them?

Ra Death wrote:
I'm almost at a loss of words here. Almost, therefore I am going to speak my mind.

So now capitals are basically structure grinding machines and you only deploy them if you have something to grind down or if someone else is grinding stuff down and you catch someone else grinding down something. This is not a solution, this is a plaster for a symptom. There is now ZERO reason to deploy supercapitals except to grind down a structure. Do you really want structure grinding to become the motivator for people to build and create supercapitals in EVE? I mean, I don't believe you have thought at all about the consequences of these changes.

EVE is now effectively sectioned off into two tier combat systems. Capital combat and sub-capital combat. The difference is, capitals cannot touch sub-capitals, but sub-capitals can, in the numbers that are brought at the moment, almost 1-3 volley capitals. The titans were a workaround for that because numbers were no longer the only deciding factor, your playing time, your assets and your skillpoints actually played a role. Now we are going back to a time again where the only effective tool, a VERY limited tool might I add, against blobbing is a damn stealth bomber. No more force projection by taking advantage of the many years you have spent in the game and the money you have pooled into a titan, you are better off selling off said titan and joining the nearest Maelstrom fleet.

What am I meant to aspire for in EVE in terms of combat? What is my incentive for actually training all these skills. To fly the next flavour of the month subcapital ship?

EVE is now a numbers game when there is a large effort to remove counters for large fleets. If this is the direction we're going, we're going to see a bipolar political landscape because being a small alliance, you can now only exist if you are a part of the inevitable two powerblocks that will come to dominate EVE. If you can't match the numbers, too bad... join or die.

Let's get a rethink of the roles of supercapitals and not a temporary plaster that will reduce supercapitals to nothing but ihub and station grinders.

This.
May Zonday
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2019 - 2012-03-15 01:01:02 UTC
Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
:words:


You seem mad.

That's a lot of word that you're mad about, TitanKeeper Man.

Maybe if you didn't hose down so many subcaps with your terrible space penis, you wouldn't be in the position you're in, bent over and crying from a npc corp alt because you're so buttfrustrated that CCP WANTS TO NERF TITANS AGAIN
Sirhan Blixt
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2020 - 2012-03-15 01:02:02 UTC
Mioelnir wrote:
Histocomp wrote:
Dreads were also boosted at the same time to try and provide better mechanics of taking these monsters down.

No.

Suggestions on how to accomplish that were posted by the players. Neither CCP nor the CSM decided to pick up on it. There may have been a few dials that got turned a few degrees, but base dreadnought mechanics are still Red Moon Rising mechanics, designed around 3-5 dreadnoughts sieging a POS with invulnerable guns and near infinite tracking.

Supercapitals were made to be capital killers. But there are no regular combat capitals.
Carriers are support ships, dreads are static siege tools, rorquals are rorquals. None of them is an actual combat capital designed around ship vs ship combat.
Thus an old, limping wolf was promoted badass in a valley of sheeps.

We do not need supercapitals, capable of shifting planetary tides, helpless against 5 rifters.

And that's where you revealed yourself to be the latest claimant to the Unclear on the Concept Throne. Perhaps you should have left your hyperbole in your other space-pants.

All major alliances field significant capital fleets. If they're not regularly seen in battle, it's because it's completely effin' stupid to field them there. All dreadnaughts are good for is shooting large, stationary targets, or other capitals. Carriers can harm subcaps, but that's not worth the risk of putting them in the front lines, especially against an opponent able to drop a couple dozen supercaps into the fray that will gobble them up like McNuggets. Instead, they're quietly breaking those large, stationary targets out of view, or repping them.

Which is just fine.

Where things go off the rails, for the thousandth goddamned time, is where the appearance of a large number of titans spontaneously ends the fight in the titan owners' favor, regardless of whatever else had been on the field.

Ordinarily I'd say that Repetition is the Mother of Learning. But it's futile when the other guy's arguments and worldview depend on them not learning.