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Incoming titan adjustments

First post First post
Author
Styrling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1621 - 2012-03-14 16:25:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Styrling wrote:
3x Meta 13 Tracking Comps
3x Meta 13 Tracking Enhancers
2x Meta 13 Sensor Boosters - Lock time gonna blow :frogcawg:
Strong Drop and an ax-2.5 or Ogdin's

With all this the Titan still has ~16m EHP

Tracking is around 0.0133 compared to around 0.015 for a normal 1400 Mael.
…divided by four due to the signature resolution, so around 0.0033 compared to around 0.015.


No Logic this is an eve-o thread.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1622 - 2012-03-14 16:27:27 UTC
Styrling wrote:
No Logic this is an eve-o thread.
That's ok, I got the divisor wrong at first anyway… fixed now. P
Styrling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1623 - 2012-03-14 16:29:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Styrling wrote:
No Logic this is an eve-o thread.
That's ok, I got the divisor wrong at first anyway… fixed now. P


NO worries bro, Here are some sick numbers

7x Cormack's Tracking Comps - Scripted
5x Tobias' Modified TE's
Strong Drop
Ogdin's Eye
DC II Tank

0.01515 Tracking

75% tracking nerf or bust
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1624 - 2012-03-14 16:34:28 UTC
GeneralDisturbed wrote:
The point of all this is, all these fleets require coordination and precision to win, and ALL OF THEM HAVE A CHANCE. You drop 300 ships on 200 ships, both sides can still win. You drop 50 titans on 300 ships, 400 ships, 500 ships, 800 ships... the titans just won. Hands down, no contest. No subcap fleet can stand on the field, and do the damage required to break reps, when they're losing a ship every single time the titans guns cycle. This is not the way eve is meant to be played, CCP has been nerfing titans since they came out, because they DO NOT FIT WITH EVE and never have. Every ship matters in eve, in every fleet, regardless of size. Until you bring titans in, and then the only ship that matters onfield is how many titans you have. That's not eve, and it's never going to be eve. So they're getting nerfed again, and will get nerfed more... get over it.


I bolded the parts where you are wrong. Also numbers are the biggest factor in almost every fight. Sure what ship they are in is important too, but by all means. Please come fight my fleet of 2000 Thorax's with your 3 Ravens.

I do like your heart as far as where you think the game is. Unfortunately, it is not where you think it is as far as numbers not mattering. It would be nice if it did not matter as much, but it is king of space right now. You also have to remember the game mechanics that amplify why numbers matter. The biggest offender is the super effort free and incredibly accurate intelligence gathering tool that has a minor role for communication. The local channel. Toss in a splash of alliance assets that have damage notifications and structure timers and presto, the blob... she be coming and she does not care if it is just you and your two friends in battlecruisers. She will bring everyone for many regions to curb stomp you so hard for disturbing them so you don't bother to set foot in their space ever again. Yet somehow the blob goes to the forums and complains about, "How come null space is so empty?"

The point of all of this is, the game needs a big change how intelligence is gathered, how entities claim territory and how it is fought. Even if it means changing how we play the game.
BioZvin
The Acheron
#1625 - 2012-03-14 16:35:40 UTC
Styrling wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Styrling wrote:
No Logic this is an eve-o thread.
That's ok, I got the divisor wrong at first anyway… fixed now. P


NO worries bro, Here are some sick numbers

7x Cormack's Tracking Comps - Scripted
5x Tobias' Modified TE's
Strong Drop
Ogdin's Eye
DC II Tank

0.01515 Tracking

75% tracking nerf or bust


Let theory craft all ships, you are up against what you saw on Hunted Lifeforms killmaill. Not Cormack's *7. Like saying all you maelstroms are really mach's.
Styrling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1626 - 2012-03-14 16:39:52 UTC
BioZvin wrote:
Styrling wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Styrling wrote:
No Logic this is an eve-o thread.
That's ok, I got the divisor wrong at first anyway… fixed now. P


NO worries bro, Here are some sick numbers

7x Cormack's Tracking Comps - Scripted
5x Tobias' Modified TE's
Strong Drop
Ogdin's Eye
DC II Tank

0.01515 Tracking

75% tracking nerf or bust


Let theory craft all ships, you are up against what you saw on Hunted Lifeforms killmaill. Not Cormack's *7. Like saying all you maelstroms are really mach's.


Bro I don't care about your **** Raidendot fit I am saying what I fit on my titan that you dropped your dreads on a few weeks ago.
Triskian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1627 - 2012-03-14 16:40:00 UTC
Raiden., NC., and PL. We might not agree on the titan nerf, but I think I have found something we can all agree on and that is penguins are adorable.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1628 - 2012-03-14 16:41:47 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Toss in a splash of alliance assets that have damage notifications and structure timers and presto, the blob... she be coming and she does not care if it is just you and your two friends in battlecruisers. She will bring everyone for many regions to curb stomp you so hard for disturbing them so you don't bother to set foot in their space ever again. Yet somehow the blob goes to the forums and complains about, "How come null space is so empty?"

Do you really think shooting a few bullets at a POS elicits such a response? If you reinforce it, sure. If three people are reinforcing a POS they are pretty hardcore.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1629 - 2012-03-14 16:43:01 UTC
Triskian wrote:
Raiden., NC., and PL. We might not agree on the titan nerf, but I think I have found something we can all agree on and that is penguins are adorable.


Everyone in Theta Squad has been watching these guys for like.. a week

:3:
GeneralDisturbed
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1630 - 2012-03-14 16:44:03 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Toss in a splash of alliance assets that have damage notifications and structure timers and presto, the blob... she be coming and she does not care if it is just you and your two friends in battlecruisers. She will bring everyone for many regions to curb stomp you so hard for disturbing them so you don't bother to set foot in their space ever again. Yet somehow the blob goes to the forums and complains about, "How come null space is so empty?"

Do you really think shooting a few bullets at a POS elicits such a response? If you reinforce it, sure. If three people are reinforcing a POS they are pretty hardcore.


Another NPC corp person discussing how numbers are the only thing that matters in combat. What a surprise let me tell you.
BioZvin
The Acheron
#1631 - 2012-03-14 16:46:30 UTC  |  Edited by: BioZvin
Styrling wrote:
Bro I don't care about your **** Raidendot fit I am saying what I fit on my titan that you dropped your dreads on a few weeks ago.


Ohh wait didn't you have titans and supers there, bring them with your 1500 man sub caps and you could win....

Please keep that fit on :P
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#1632 - 2012-03-14 16:49:35 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I bolded the parts where you are wrong. Also numbers are the biggest factor in almost every fight. Sure what ship they are in is important too, but by all means. Please come fight my fleet of 2000 Thorax's with your 3 Ravens.

I do like your heart as far as where you think the game is. Unfortunately, it is not where you think it is as far as numbers not mattering. It would be nice if it did not matter as much, but it is king of space right now. You also have to remember the game mechanics that amplify why numbers matter. The biggest offender is the super effort free and incredibly accurate intelligence gathering tool that has a minor role for communication. The local channel. Toss in a splash of alliance assets that have damage notifications and structure timers and presto, the blob... she be coming and she does not care if it is just you and your two friends in battlecruisers. She will bring everyone for many regions to curb stomp you so hard for disturbing them so you don't bother to set foot in their space ever again. Yet somehow the blob goes to the forums and complains about, "How come null space is so empty?"

The point of all of this is, the game needs a big change how intelligence is gathered, how entities claim territory and how it is fought. Even if it means changing how we play the game.


Two points to this:
a) Numbers don't matter in the sense that a small fleet can beat a larger one with closer margins. 250 beating 400 with good skill, use of tactics and coordination is realistic (see: forces of Elite PVP versus old NC). However no one yet has come up with a good reason why absolutely crazy excessive numbers shouldn't win single fights. 1600 versus 200 absolutely should be winning - EVE doesn't cater to that degree of superior skill or resources. The counter that sort of force is not done via ships, but by politics, timezones and an eventual review of the underlying game mechanics that cause fights to happen.

b) As an addendum to the intelligence point - every major power knows where every others supercap forces (and to an extent, cap forces) are at all times. This severely limits the scope for real traps and ambushes. Thanks to a combination of spying, watchlists and locator agents it's virtually impossible to catch someone out with anything other than a minor gank. This is part of the reason for why titans are so survivable - they don't get caught out with their pants down all that often, most losses are from poor FC judgement rather than genuine surprise.


Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1633 - 2012-03-14 16:50:18 UTC
83 pages?

Raiden./PL and friends must be really butthurt over these changes. Lol
Wilson Yu
Masters of Ownage
#1634 - 2012-03-14 16:53:15 UTC
I am truly disappointed with how ccp is carrying out with the titan nerf. Now the only thing titans are useful for is super cap rights, structure grinding, and mobile stargate, all for a 70 billion isk ship. even than in super cap fights no one would use them cause it takes ******* long to lock on anything. so now what i am seeing is mins will drop in price ( yea cheap ships) and two titans will no longer be used at all other than cynoing in fleets of sub caps. who would ******* use a 70 billion ship to structure grind and risk it to sub caps who can easily scram it and wtfpwn it. lol good fight titans and super caps pilots you just got ****** in the ass by ccp. might as well just sell your titan or just self destruct. sell all your offcier mods and stuff. cause your titan will be worth the same level as a drake, quite literally.
GeneralDisturbed
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1635 - 2012-03-14 16:55:22 UTC
CynoNet Two wrote:


Two points to this:
a) Numbers don't matter in the sense that a small fleet can beat a larger one with closer margins. 250 beating 400 with good skill, use of tactics and coordination is realistic (see: forces of Elite PVP versus old NC). However no one yet has come up with a good reason why absolutely crazy excessive numbers shouldn't win single fights. 1600 versus 200 absolutely should be winning - EVE doesn't cater to that degree of superior skill or resources. The counter that sort of force is not done via ships, but by politics, timezones and an eventual review of the underlying game mechanics that cause fights to happen.



Keeping in mind that those 1600 don't exist, and have never existed. This is just some magical number these neutral alts keep throwing around like it's fact. A 'large' fight currently would be 500+ vs 500+. A major fight with everybody and their brother coming never breaks 1600... IN ALL. This idea that numbers win everything, and people are being dishonoureably blobbed out of their space is nothing more than a made up lie to try to distract from the fact that Titans are not some desperate last stand for honoureable people wanting to avoid losing their space to a blob. Titans are an i-win button for people who brought equal numbers and lost the real fight already. Or who don't want to bother forming up to defend their space, so they just drop 50 titans on a pos and laugh as nobody can attack it.
Bliswonowon
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1636 - 2012-03-14 17:02:49 UTC
Pesadel0 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
BioZvin wrote:


So wait a ship is invalidated when it cannot do anything against another one ?


Welcome to all subcaps and carriers/dreads lives over the last year.


I will laugh real hard when pl deploys 250 carriers with sentrys , then you will say the carriers are overpowered



I see you have no idea why large groups of titans have been in need of rebalancing

Speaking of PL, I think it's a safe bet that they will remain as strong as ever, because they aren't dumb enough to rely on one broken doctrine as their only means of achieving anything in EVE (unlike the assorted members of a failcascading alliance who whine here with their NPC alts)

To those wailing that titans are the only way to counter "the blob": try bombers? Too plebeian?
BioZvin
The Acheron
#1637 - 2012-03-14 17:04:41 UTC
GeneralDisturbed wrote:
CynoNet Two wrote:


Two points to this:
a) Numbers don't matter in the sense that a small fleet can beat a larger one with closer margins. 250 beating 400 with good skill, use of tactics and coordination is realistic (see: forces of Elite PVP versus old NC). However no one yet has come up with a good reason why absolutely crazy excessive numbers shouldn't win single fights. 1600 versus 200 absolutely should be winning - EVE doesn't cater to that degree of superior skill or resources. The counter that sort of force is not done via ships, but by politics, timezones and an eventual review of the underlying game mechanics that cause fights to happen.



Keeping in mind that those 1600 don't exist, and have never existed. This is just some magical number these neutral alts keep throwing around like it's fact. A 'large' fight currently would be 500+ vs 500+. A major fight with everybody and their brother coming never breaks 1600... IN ALL. This idea that numbers win everything, and people are being dishonoureably blobbed out of their space is nothing more than a made up lie to try to distract from the fact that Titans are not some desperate last stand for honoureable people wanting to avoid losing their space to a blob. Titans are an i-win button for people who brought equal numbers and lost the real fight already. Or who don't want to bother forming up to defend their space, so they just drop 50 titans on a pos and laugh as nobody can attack it.


biggest fight we had up here we had what 37 titans, so your 50 is just as bad as their 1600, more realistic would be just above or below 20. And might I add I cant remember we dropped Titans alone, without support there or very close.
Wilson Yu
Masters of Ownage
#1638 - 2012-03-14 17:05:28 UTC
well idc about titans being nerf to hell, no one gives a **** about them anyways except well, titan pilots. i am just going to be disappointed that titans will not be use anymore ... quite literally. i can imagine people whelping titans cause they are now worth piece of ****.
GeneralDisturbed
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1639 - 2012-03-14 17:07:12 UTC
BioZvin wrote:


biggest fight we had up here we had what 37 titans, so your 50 is just as bad as their 1600, more realistic would be just above or below 20. And might I add I cant remember we dropped Titans alone, without support there or very close.


Guys we only drop 37 unkillable ships that kill a ship everytime they fire, not 50 of them. DON'T NERF MY TITAN BRO!
Gertrud ToD
Terrorists of Dimensions
#1640 - 2012-03-14 17:07:41 UTC
Crystal Wolf wrote:

This is true however CCP in response to one of my earlier posts said that almost anything that reduces titan numbers and titan blobbing is considered a desirable outcome.

and thats a pretty dangerous way of thinking,
looking at how many people own titans nowadays -
you cannot just take them away or make them "useless"
without reimbursting owners in some sort of acceptable way

and you cant do a short-term-"solution" like the one here proposed either, because it does not solve the problem.

the right way to go about this, would be finding the root of the problem, and find a way to modify the current state to a level where players can solve that root-problem themselves by giving them the right tools.