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Incoming titan adjustments

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1441 - 2012-03-14 13:30:43 UTC
BioZvin wrote:
testobjekt wrote:
[quote=dooplex]

Because CCPs marketing for EvE is all about 1000 dudes who played since 2004 controlling large parts of the universe, and you as new player have the CHANCE(!) to become their serf.

If you are a small well established alliance you can hold a small portion of space (say one constellation) or not very valuable space.

EvE is not just about the battlefield on the grid but its about diplomacy, making allies, building a community.


Very funny how is a 1000 people going to hold a constellation, new or not that goons have their eye on ?, so what you are saying is that 10x1000 people can ban together and hold it against you, and that should be the only way

by not being an alliance so terrible we've murdered them four times running now

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1442 - 2012-03-14 13:32:32 UTC
Hans Roaming wrote:
Why shouldn't Titans be able to hit MWD'ng drakes with sig's the size of moons?
Top tip: learn how tracking works before making this argument…

Quote:
If fleets in large numbers had to actually manoeuvre in order to bring DPS onto a target then the blob would be less advantageous than it would be now.
…especially if you add this button to your post.
Swearte Widfarend
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#1443 - 2012-03-14 13:35:46 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
This has never been a stated balance goal in any discussion I've been party to. In particular, predicating "can survive as a small alliance in nullsec" on "can afford a large supercap fleet" would be extremely silly, because it excludes exactly the type of players who we're most keen on being able to maintain small holdings in nullsec, ie newer, poorer players.


Now I'm not trying to be a total jerk, but you have never succeeded in this. In addition, if you are actually reading the comments in this thread, you should realize that you are not going to succeed in your newly stated role change for Titans

CCP Greyscale wrote:
For the immediate future and until such time as we have the resources available to do a comprehensive overhaul, we want to ensure that titans perform decently against other capitals, but do not represent a serious threat to sub caps.


Nothing you are doing makes this happen consistently. Signature radius on an MWD Drake or an MWD Maelstrom (the current FOTM fleet ships for the big nullsec alliances fighting Titans right now) is virtually identical to Signature Radius on a Carrier, and the lock time on that ship with your new system is 30+ seconds (not including TiDi). So how is the Titan an anti-Captial ship when a capital can dock/warp/enter shields before a Titan can lock it? Seriously, look at what you are doing and realize that this change does not perform your intended action.

I'm not a game designer. I don't know what the answer is. But your actions do not support what you say you want Titans to be doing.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1444 - 2012-03-14 13:36:17 UTC
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:


A+ troll.




This just proves that CCP and Goons have a suspicious relationship.

Dear pubbies,

Did you know that former Goonfleet CEO Darius Johnson is now the head of security (CCP Sreegs) and in charge of banning botters? According to their forums, not a single goon was banned during the last banwave. Did you know that CCP Sreegs named his son Alexander after The Mittani and that The MIttani is his child's god father? Can you expect fairness in this situation?? CCP needs to answer about how many goons receive a CCP pay check.

Recently the Eve-O site was redesigned. In completely unrelated news (I SWEAR) Solo Drakban is the goonfleet webmaster and does freelance design work and was recently very busy with a contract.

There is a huge scandal coming that is going to blow T20 out of the water. Look for emails, chatlogs, etc. that prove that CCP devs have been directly helping goons to get anything they want.

When is the last time you asked CCP to change something and got a quick response? Andski of Goonfleet demanded that CCP change their rules about *SCAMMING* using the recruitment channel. One of the only safe places in which people could find a corp. A CCP dev and community moderator responded within 2 hours with a change to the rules. People have been asking for ways to stop non-mutual PVP for years with no response.

All of this is out there and obvious. If you take off your blinders and take a step back you will see the gigantic writing on the wall.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1445 - 2012-03-14 13:40:34 UTC
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:


A+ troll.




This just proves that CCP and Goons have a suspicious relationship.

Dear pubbies,

Did you know that former Goonfleet CEO Darius Johnson is now the head of security (CCP Sreegs) and in charge of banning botters? According to their forums, not a single goon was banned during the last banwave. Did you know that CCP Sreegs named his son Alexander after The Mittani and that The MIttani is his child's god father? Can you expect fairness in this situation?? CCP needs to answer about how many goons receive a CCP pay check.

Recently the Eve-O site was redesigned. In completely unrelated news (I SWEAR) Solo Drakban is the goonfleet webmaster and does freelance design work and was recently very busy with a contract.

There is a huge scandal coming that is going to blow T20 out of the water. Look for emails, chatlogs, etc. that prove that CCP devs have been directly helping goons to get anything they want.

When is the last time you asked CCP to change something and got a quick response? Andski of Goonfleet demanded that CCP change their rules about *SCAMMING* using the recruitment channel. One of the only safe places in which people could find a corp. A CCP dev and community moderator responded within 2 hours with a change to the rules. People have been asking for ways to stop non-mutual PVP for years with no response.

All of this is out there and obvious. If you take off your blinders and take a step back you will see the gigantic writing on the wall.



Franklin Roosevelt you can't post, you're dead!
Swearte Widfarend
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#1446 - 2012-03-14 13:42:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hans Roaming wrote:
Why shouldn't Titans be able to hit MWD'ng drakes with sig's the size of moons?
Top tip: learn how tracking works before making this argument…

Quote:
If fleets in large numbers had to actually manoeuvre in order to bring DPS onto a target then the blob would be less advantageous than it would be now.
…especially if you add this button to your post.


Um Tippia, learn how fleet fights work in nullsec before making this argument. Board ship (PermaMWD Drake or MWD Maelstrom). Bridge/Jump into system. Orbit anchor at X range. Based on simple geometry, at some point in your orbit of the anchor you will have a transversal of ZERO (or close enough to call it zero) and the signature radius of a carrier. Therefore you should be hittable by XL Turrets for full damage at those two moments in your orbit. We went over this 30-odd pages ago.

Ignoring small bomber squads and other snowflake ships, fleets in null operate on the easy-to-follow instructions "Orbit Anchor and press F1-F8" That's the truth for easily 1100 of the 1200 pilots in big null fights.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1447 - 2012-03-14 13:42:36 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:


A+ troll.




This just proves that CCP and Goons have a suspicious relationship.

Dear pubbies,

Did you know that former Goonfleet CEO Darius Johnson is now the head of security (CCP Sreegs) and in charge of banning botters? According to their forums, not a single goon was banned during the last banwave. Did you know that CCP Sreegs named his son Alexander after The Mittani and that The MIttani is his child's god father? Can you expect fairness in this situation?? CCP needs to answer about how many goons receive a CCP pay check.

Recently the Eve-O site was redesigned. In completely unrelated news (I SWEAR) Solo Drakban is the goonfleet webmaster and does freelance design work and was recently very busy with a contract.

There is a huge scandal coming that is going to blow T20 out of the water. Look for emails, chatlogs, etc. that prove that CCP devs have been directly helping goons to get anything they want.

When is the last time you asked CCP to change something and got a quick response? Andski of Goonfleet demanded that CCP change their rules about *SCAMMING* using the recruitment channel. One of the only safe places in which people could find a corp. A CCP dev and community moderator responded within 2 hours with a change to the rules. People have been asking for ways to stop non-mutual PVP for years with no response.

All of this is out there and obvious. If you take off your blinders and take a step back you will see the gigantic writing on the wall.



Franklin Roosevelt you can't post, you're dead!

You can't threaten me. I am reporting you for making threats and even though you are in CSM I will see you banned.
Titan Keeper 22
Doomheim
#1448 - 2012-03-14 13:44:06 UTC
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:


A+ troll.




This just proves that CCP and Goons have a suspicious relationship.

Dear pubbies,

Did you know that former Goonfleet CEO Darius Johnson is now the head of security (CCP Sreegs) and in charge of banning botters? According to their forums, not a single goon was banned during the last banwave. Did you know that CCP Sreegs named his son Alexander after The Mittani and that The MIttani is his child's god father? Can you expect fairness in this situation?? CCP needs to answer about how many goons receive a CCP pay check.

Recently the Eve-O site was redesigned. In completely unrelated news (I SWEAR) Solo Drakban is the goonfleet webmaster and does freelance design work and was recently very busy with a contract.

There is a huge scandal coming that is going to blow T20 out of the water. Look for emails, chatlogs, etc. that prove that CCP devs have been directly helping goons to get anything they want.

When is the last time you asked CCP to change something and got a quick response? Andski of Goonfleet demanded that CCP change their rules about *SCAMMING* using the recruitment channel. One of the only safe places in which people could find a corp. A CCP dev and community moderator responded within 2 hours with a change to the rules. People have been asking for ways to stop non-mutual PVP for years with no response.

All of this is out there and obvious. If you take off your blinders and take a step back you will see the gigantic writing on the wall.


i have never +1'd in any post in my life, but here it is.

+1

you deserve it respectfully.
BrokenBC
no tax's are us
#1449 - 2012-03-14 13:45:49 UTC
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:


A+ troll.




This just proves that CCP and Goons have a suspicious relationship.

Dear pubbies,

Did you know that former Goonfleet CEO Darius Johnson is now the head of security (CCP Sreegs) and in charge of banning botters? According to their forums, not a single goon was banned during the last banwave. Did you know that CCP Sreegs named his son Alexander after The Mittani and that The MIttani is his child's god father? Can you expect fairness in this situation?? CCP needs to answer about how many goons receive a CCP pay check.

Recently the Eve-O site was redesigned. In completely unrelated news (I SWEAR) Solo Drakban is the goonfleet webmaster and does freelance design work and was recently very busy with a contract.

There is a huge scandal coming that is going to blow T20 out of the water. Look for emails, chatlogs, etc. that prove that CCP devs have been directly helping goons to get anything they want.

When is the last time you asked CCP to change something and got a quick response? Andski of Goonfleet demanded that CCP change their rules about *SCAMMING* using the recruitment channel. One of the only safe places in which people could find a corp. A CCP dev and community moderator responded within 2 hours with a change to the rules. People have been asking for ways to stop non-mutual PVP for years with no response.

All of this is out there and obvious. If you take off your blinders and take a step back you will see the gigantic writing on the wall.



Franklin Roosevelt you can't post, you're dead!

You can't threaten me. I am reporting you for making threats and even though you are in CSM I will see you banned.


More tin foil on isle 1 please!!
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1450 - 2012-03-14 13:46:06 UTC
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:


A+ troll.




This just proves that CCP and Goons have a suspicious relationship.

Dear pubbies,

Did you know that former Goonfleet CEO Darius Johnson is now the head of security (CCP Sreegs) and in charge of banning botters? According to their forums, not a single goon was banned during the last banwave. Did you know that CCP Sreegs named his son Alexander after The Mittani and that The MIttani is his child's god father? Can you expect fairness in this situation?? CCP needs to answer about how many goons receive a CCP pay check.

Recently the Eve-O site was redesigned. In completely unrelated news (I SWEAR) Solo Drakban is the goonfleet webmaster and does freelance design work and was recently very busy with a contract.

There is a huge scandal coming that is going to blow T20 out of the water. Look for emails, chatlogs, etc. that prove that CCP devs have been directly helping goons to get anything they want.

When is the last time you asked CCP to change something and got a quick response? Andski of Goonfleet demanded that CCP change their rules about *SCAMMING* using the recruitment channel. One of the only safe places in which people could find a corp. A CCP dev and community moderator responded within 2 hours with a change to the rules. People have been asking for ways to stop non-mutual PVP for years with no response.

All of this is out there and obvious. If you take off your blinders and take a step back you will see the gigantic writing on the wall.



Franklin Roosevelt you can't post, you're dead!

You can't threaten me. I am reporting you for making threats and even though you are in CSM I will see you banned.



Interesting concept, threatening a former president who's been dead since the 1940's. Take that dead guy!
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1451 - 2012-03-14 13:47:07 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:


A+ troll.




This just proves that CCP and Goons have a suspicious relationship.

Dear pubbies,

Did you know that former Goonfleet CEO Darius Johnson is now the head of security (CCP Sreegs) and in charge of banning botters? According to their forums, not a single goon was banned during the last banwave. Did you know that CCP Sreegs named his son Alexander after The Mittani and that The MIttani is his child's god father? Can you expect fairness in this situation?? CCP needs to answer about how many goons receive a CCP pay check.

Recently the Eve-O site was redesigned. In completely unrelated news (I SWEAR) Solo Drakban is the goonfleet webmaster and does freelance design work and was recently very busy with a contract.

There is a huge scandal coming that is going to blow T20 out of the water. Look for emails, chatlogs, etc. that prove that CCP devs have been directly helping goons to get anything they want.

When is the last time you asked CCP to change something and got a quick response? Andski of Goonfleet demanded that CCP change their rules about *SCAMMING* using the recruitment channel. One of the only safe places in which people could find a corp. A CCP dev and community moderator responded within 2 hours with a change to the rules. People have been asking for ways to stop non-mutual PVP for years with no response.

All of this is out there and obvious. If you take off your blinders and take a step back you will see the gigantic writing on the wall.



Franklin Roosevelt you can't post, you're dead!

You can't threaten me. I am reporting you for making threats and even though you are in CSM I will see you banned.



Interesting concept, threatening a former president who's been dead since the 1940's. Take that dead guy!

Vile rat. It is you. It is you who is the worst GoonFleet poster.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1452 - 2012-03-14 13:48:25 UTC
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
This has never been a stated balance goal in any discussion I've been party to. In particular, predicating "can survive as a small alliance in nullsec" on "can afford a large supercap fleet" would be extremely silly, because it excludes exactly the type of players who we're most keen on being able to maintain small holdings in nullsec, ie newer, poorer players.


Now I'm not trying to be a total jerk, but you have never succeeded in this. In addition, if you are actually reading the comments in this thread, you should realize that you are not going to succeed in your newly stated role change for Titans

CCP Greyscale wrote:
For the immediate future and until such time as we have the resources available to do a comprehensive overhaul, we want to ensure that titans perform decently against other capitals, but do not represent a serious threat to sub caps.


Nothing you are doing makes this happen consistently. Signature radius on an MWD Drake or an MWD Maelstrom (the current FOTM fleet ships for the big nullsec alliances fighting Titans right now) is virtually identical to Signature Radius on a Carrier, and the lock time on that ship with your new system is 30+ seconds (not including TiDi). So how is the Titan an anti-Captial ship when a capital can dock/warp/enter shields before a Titan can lock it? Seriously, look at what you are doing and realize that this change does not perform your intended action.

I'm not a game designer. I don't know what the answer is. But your actions do not support what you say you want Titans to be doing.


All that first quote is saying is that it's never been our intention that you need supers to survive as a small alliance in nullsec. There's a lot of people reading into it a lot of things that aren't actually there.

WRT the second point, I would suggest webs (where applicable), dictors/hictors, and not using titans to play docking games.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1453 - 2012-03-14 13:48:25 UTC
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:

Vile rat. It is you. It is you who is the worst GoonFleet poster.


Sir I am not in GoonFleet.
Ong
Lumberjack Commandos
#1454 - 2012-03-14 13:49:33 UTC
GF ccp, blobs just won eve Ugh
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1455 - 2012-03-14 13:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Franklin D Roosevelt
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
This has never been a stated balance goal in any discussion I've been party to. In particular, predicating "can survive as a small alliance in nullsec" on "can afford a large supercap fleet" would be extremely silly, because it excludes exactly the type of players who we're most keen on being able to maintain small holdings in nullsec, ie newer, poorer players.


Now I'm not trying to be a total jerk, but you have never succeeded in this. In addition, if you are actually reading the comments in this thread, you should realize that you are not going to succeed in your newly stated role change for Titans

CCP Greyscale wrote:
For the immediate future and until such time as we have the resources available to do a comprehensive overhaul, we want to ensure that titans perform decently against other capitals, but do not represent a serious threat to sub caps.


Nothing you are doing makes this happen consistently. Signature radius on an MWD Drake or an MWD Maelstrom (the current FOTM fleet ships for the big nullsec alliances fighting Titans right now) is virtually identical to Signature Radius on a Carrier, and the lock time on that ship with your new system is 30+ seconds (not including TiDi). So how is the Titan an anti-Captial ship when a capital can dock/warp/enter shields before a Titan can lock it? Seriously, look at what you are doing and realize that this change does not perform your intended action.

I'm not a game designer. I don't know what the answer is. But your actions do not support what you say you want Titans to be doing.


All that first quote is saying is that it's never been our intention that you need supers to survive as a small alliance in nullsec. There's a lot of people reading into it a lot of things that aren't actually there.

WRT the second point, I would suggest webs (where applicable), dictors/hictors, and not using titans to play docking games.

CCP Greyscale.

How much conversation around this change was with the Goon dominated CSM? Did you have any private conversations with Alexander Gianturco about this matter that were not recorded in any CSM minutes?

Have you had drinks with Alexander? Do you socialize with him like many of the CCP devs? Is it unreasonable to ask for a log of all interaction that CSM members have with the devs regarding game mechanics? Social calls? Gifts? I know that Alexander is very generous in his gift givings around Christmas.
Acwron
Meet The Fockers
#1456 - 2012-03-14 13:51:19 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Acwron wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Every nerf CCP has done to Titans has been to reduce their ability in combating subcaps. They are trying to tell you something (hint: it's that training for a titan to blap battleships is wrong). CCP gets to tell you what you are looking for because they develop the game.


You failed to target nothing.

They develop what we want cos we pay for the game.


Way more people paying for the game think Titans are overpowered.


Especially drake and maelstrom pilots by any chance ?
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1457 - 2012-03-14 13:53:53 UTC
testobjekt wrote:
dooplex wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


dooplex wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Titans were supposed to be very expensive but also very effective strategic force multipliers and as such were working as intended. Smaller entities in nullsec could defend their space by relying on a larger supercaptial fleet. However, after this nerf, numbers will again be everything. A short look at http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/memberCount should give us a general idea of who will be the sole beneficary of this "adjustment"..



This has never been a stated balance goal in any discussion I've been party to. In particular, predicating "can survive as a small alliance in nullsec" on "can afford a large supercap fleet" would be extremely silly, because it excludes exactly the type of players who we're most keen on being able to maintain small holdings in nullsec, ie newer, poorer players.


You completely missed the point, smaller does not mean "small as in tiny and new". I am talking about well establsihed alliances with 1,000-2,000 members facing a blobs of alliances with 8,000+ members or whole coalitions with more than 16,000 members.

You can't seriously be that ignorant about your own game...


Because CCPs marketing for EvE is all about 1000 dudes who played since 2004 controlling large parts of the universe, and you as new player have the CHANCE(!) to become their serf.

If you are a small well established alliance you can hold a small portion of space (say one constellation) or not very valuable space.

EvE is not just about the battlefield on the grid but its about diplomacy, making allies, building a community.

Thank you sir for you kindness, that you allow us to hold some worthless space. You are really to kind.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#1458 - 2012-03-14 13:54:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Dreads are mainly antistructure, with a bit of anti-cap. Carriers still do pretty decent damage against subcaps AFAIK. Supers can switch between anti-cap and anti-subcap depending on their choice of fighter drone. Titans are pure anti-cap.


Up until now Greyscale, Titans were never "pure anti-cap". Indeed, pre-dominion their primary function was to mass murder subcap fleets with their AOE Doomsdays. In Dominion you replaced the AOE with a directed weapon, capable of hitting any ship, and in addition you enhanced the regular XL weapon bonuses "so that the turret locators actually might get used [to] enable a Titan to make its presence felt on the battlefield" " to quote your own devblog.

Now however, they are suddenly "pure anti-cap" as if they were never intended for anything else.
GeneralDisturbed
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1459 - 2012-03-14 13:56:48 UTC  |  Edited by: GeneralDisturbed
It's amusing the pile of people in this thread who ignore all the well-worded arguments to the contrary, and just immediately yell 'CCP just let blobbers win eve" when it's not the case at all. If you can't hold your space without using a group of overpowered ships with no effective counter in the game, something that is against everything eve has ever been about... maybe you shouldn't be holding any space. Has that thought occurred to you?

As for the people who keep posting "Lol blobbers use drake fleet, just orbit the anchor lol" they show their ignorance on the matter of how real large-scale battles in eve are fought. The amount of planning, logistics, strategy, espionage, and luck that goes into winning a battle, shows that numbers are only a small part of any of this. Anybody in this thread posting about how goons have somehow just won eve, because one overpowered ship is getting a nerf it desperately needs... just ignore their posts. Because they have no idea at all about eve, how fights are won, or what really matters to win them.
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1460 - 2012-03-14 13:58:22 UTC
GeneralDisturbed wrote:
It's amusing the pile of people in this thread who ignore all the well-worded arguments to the contrary, and just immediately yell 'CCP just let blobbers win eve" when it's not the case at all. If you can't hold your space without using a group of overpowered ships with no effective counter in the game, something that is against everything eve has ever been about... maybe you shouldn't be holding any space. Has that thought occurred to you?

As for the people who keep posting "Lol blobbers use drake fleet, just orbit the anchor lol" they show their ignorance on the matter of how real large-scale battles in eve are fought. The amount of planning, logistics, strategy, espionage, and luck that goes into winning a battle, shows that numbers are only a small part of any of this. Anybody in this thread posting about how goons have somehow just won eve, because one overpowered ships is getting a nerf it desparetely needs... jusg ignore their posts. Because they have no idea at all about eve, how fights are won, or what really matters to win them.


Yeah nice effort post about Eve-Online.