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CCP do something about the suicide ganking problem
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Tenebrae Syrennis
Abattoir Research and Development
#121 - 2012-03-12 10:49:18 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Andski, I'm starting to believe that all this time it's been *us* that's been wrong. I'm believing more and more that Everybody vs. Everybody *is* a game where people in highsec can expect to be perfectly safe from any and all interference with their persons.

Maybe we should just all hang up our guns and accept that the west is no longer wild.

/me is defeated.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo...!!!

DO --- NOT --- WANT!!

(And that's coming from a sometimes-industrialist/carebear-at-heart, b/t/w.)

I have come to eat all your brains.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#122 - 2012-03-12 10:51:44 UTC
Andski wrote:
Tangodude wrote:
I got suicide ganked yesterday. Delightful experience. Funny now but wasn't impressed at the time. My tengu got hit by 5 thrashers and a rupture. Pilots had -9.x type sec status. Killboard revealed they ganked 2 other tengus in the preceeding hour. Neither had a single faction mod. I had minimal faction gear.

It appears players (with bad sec status) can take out a series of ships in high sec with essentially no penalty.

So why is it called high sec? How about a name change (or penalty)? 'Gank sec' lol?

I've lost SP in pvp and pve but losing SP to a suicide gank is rude.

Suicide ganking isn't combat. It shouldn't boost kill records. Moreover, if the target hasn't heard of suicide ganking then it isn't even pvp.

Well, Im off to buy a thrasher.


http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12704064

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.



And remember to turn your hardeners on.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#123 - 2012-03-12 10:57:04 UTC
Increased suicide ganking just threatens that game imo, as their are many players that get their enjoyment of the game from a zero-pvp perspective, blowing them up is just going to get them to unsub. They have no interest in pvp, regardless how many times you try to force it upon them, they want to do all the things you label as boring.

Pretty pointless complaining about it on these forums though, as they are mostly populated by people that collect tears, and ganking their biggest generator. So unsubscribing with the reason "high-sec ganking" might be the only true way to do anything about it.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Cosmos Serendipity
BRAHMA CORP
#124 - 2012-03-12 11:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Cosmos Serendipity
Tippia wrote:
Cosmos Serendipity wrote:
Now note: I am not advocating PvP free as some are. I am just adding to the discussion on what could be done to get people into 0.0 to 0.4 so there is more pew pew

Simple: increase the amount of pew-pew in highsec so the move to low/null won't feel as such a great leap… Blink


And so unfortunatly this will stay in a never ending circle.

I'm personally waiting to see what the fix will be to war dec mechanics.

I still think even after re-vamping the war dec system there will still be the same whines, just a differen't day and in a differen't way.

Until 0.0 alliances allow unaffiliated pilots to fly with them and learn that 0.0 isn't really all that scary without forcing them to join up, only to find out they are suddenly in a great war, sudden mandatory 3 hour ops, "You best not be in high sec while we have op's going on" or what ever, then there will always be a segment that won't go, or will find any loop hole possible to avoid it. This doesn't even cover the "Oh yeah, you can come hang out in our space for X iskies" only to suddenly find themselves podded.

EDIT:
I should also add that even then some will not want to partake in any PvP, but the point is to make them the very small minority rather than the majority. If it's only a small minority, then whats broken?

The problems lie in the way the sandbox has developed. But of course this is simply my opinion.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#125 - 2012-03-12 11:05:11 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Increased suicide ganking just threatens that game imo, as their are many players that get their enjoyment of the game from a zero-pvp perspective, blowing them up is just going to get them to unsub. They have no interest in pvp, regardless how many times you try to force it upon them, they want to do all the things you label as boring.

Pretty pointless complaining about it on these forums though, as they are mostly populated by people that collect tears, and ganking their biggest generator. So unsubscribing with the reason "high-sec ganking" might be the only true way to do anything about it.

EVE is a game where EVERYTHING is supposed to be a form of pvp, if its killing someone, or mining the rocks out from under them, or undercutting their prices on the markets.

Essentially, any activity you can thing of with no risk and no competition does not belong in eve(Ice mining is the biggest thing that comes to mind, what with the fact that the floating ice blocks spew forth infinite cubes of frozen fuel, followed by mission running, 2 things most ganked) and most things, when looked at as a pvp activity instead of mindless grinding for more isk, are much more profitable.

If you don't like pvp, get out of eve, because thats all there is supposed to be in this game, even if it is competition over resources and not direct ganking(which is a resource denial tool)

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tenebrae Syrennis
Abattoir Research and Development
#126 - 2012-03-12 11:07:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenebrae Syrennis
Xen Solarus wrote:
Increased suicide ganking just threatens that game imo, as their are many players that get their enjoyment of the game from a zero-pvp perspective, blowing them up is just going to get them to unsub. They have no interest in pvp, regardless how many times you try to force it upon them, they want to do all the things you label as boring.

Pretty pointless complaining about it on these forums though, as they are mostly populated by people that collect tears, and ganking their biggest generator. So unsubscribing with the reason "high-sec ganking" might be the only true way to do anything about it.


Because, Satan forbid that people might actually even consider trying to develop and maintain situational awareness and risk-management in an open-world/open-PvP centered game, eh? Roll

[/Facepalm]

What has happened to my/our EVE?

No I'm serious:

Maybe I'm looking at it through rose-coloured glasses, but I don't recall this many entitled whingebabies in this community cropping up until relatively recently, like the last year or so.

Where did they all come from (relatively) all of a sudden, and what did they all think they were getting into?

Get out of our game, you over-entitled pathetic willing victims.

E: Just go. You don't even have to contract your stuffs to me...Just go the f away.

I have come to eat all your brains.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-03-12 11:09:27 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
This is reaching the level of a crime wave. The gankers are no longer even using passive targeters to scan you. I'm getting visibly scanned every time I bring any form of hauler into Jita. This is an annoying constant assault. Its also putting hard limit on how much isk can be shipped that is, I think, lower than what CCP intended.



there is no problem here. working as intended.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#128 - 2012-03-12 11:09:47 UTC
Tenebrae Syrennis wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Increased suicide ganking just threatens that game imo, as their are many players that get their enjoyment of the game from a zero-pvp perspective, blowing them up is just going to get them to unsub. They have no interest in pvp, regardless how many times you try to force it upon them, they want to do all the things you label as boring.

Pretty pointless complaining about it on these forums though, as they are mostly populated by people that collect tears, and ganking their biggest generator. So unsubscribing with the reason "high-sec ganking" might be the only true way to do anything about it.


Because, Satan forbid that people might actually even consider trying to develop and maintain situational awareness and risk-management in an open-world/open-PvP centered game, eh? Roll

[/Facepalm]

What has happened to my/our EVE?

No I'm serious:

Maybe I'm looking at it through rose-coloured glasses, but I don't recall this many entitled whingebabies in this community cropping up until relatively recently, like the last year or so.

Where did they all come from (relatively) all of a sudden, and what did they all think they were getting into?

Get out of our game, you over-entitled pathetic willing victims.

They are what you get when CCP puts space barbies in our game.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Taiwanistan
#129 - 2012-03-12 11:13:42 UTC
Tangodude wrote:
I got suicide ganked yesterday. Delightful experience. Funny now but wasn't impressed at the time. My tengu got hit by 5 thrashers and a rupture. Pilots had -9.x type sec status. Killboard revealed they ganked 2 other tengus in the preceeding hour. Neither had a single faction mod. I had minimal faction gear.

It appears players (with bad sec status) can take out a series of ships in high sec with essentially no penalty.

So why is it called high sec? How about a name change (or penalty)? 'Gank sec' lol?

I've lost SP in pvp and pve but losing SP to a suicide gank is rude.

Suicide ganking isn't combat. It shouldn't boost kill records. Moreover, if the target hasn't heard of suicide ganking then it isn't even pvp.

Well, Im off to buy a thrasher.

it's called the ancient secret art of GANK-FU and that guy had a black belt

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#130 - 2012-03-12 11:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Xen Solarus wrote:
Increased suicide ganking just threatens that game imo, as their are many players that get their enjoyment of the game from a zero-pvp perspective, blowing them up is just going to get them to unsub.
So? That's about as bad as someone who only enjoys The Sims quitting CounterStrike because everyone keep shooting him in the face when he tries to get them in the pool… i.e. not bad at all, and probably the decision they should have made while researching the game before starting to play it.

I suppose it's time for this piece of copy-pasta again. While it's more a response to the request for a PvP-switch, it's relevant here was well:

A "no PvP" switch in EVE would have to have at least the following restrictions:
· You can obviously no longer lock any player ship.
· You can no longer activate any kind of AoE weaponry or module.
· You can no longer use the market, contracts or the trading window.
· You can no longer access or manage POSes and their services.
· You can no longer mine.
· You can no longer shoot rats.
· You can no longer open any kind of container in space.
· You can no longer use the on-board scanner or scan probes.
· You can no longer be in a fleet.
· You can no longer use salvagers.
· You can no longer access the industry interface.
· You can no longer access player-sovereign systems.
· You can no longer access free-floating permanent sites in space.

Now, somehow I don't think that the people who want to enjoy this “zero-pvp” EVE are having this set of restrictions in mind, but that is actually what they're asking for.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2012-03-12 11:18:08 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Stop autopiloting through empire if you're transporting expensive stuff.


point taken.

However that is the way to avoid it if you are assuming that "ganking" is done because of "profit"
And we know that sometimes it is done just because, "why not"

Altho i have to agree that number of suicide gankers is pretty low compared to those who do not engage in such activities.

And basically more people will engage in such, less people to gank and everyone is sad panda afterwards. Or happy because no more ganking but regular warfare across the universe. Big smile
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#132 - 2012-03-12 11:20:26 UTC
Theres a suicide ganking "problem"?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#133 - 2012-03-12 12:02:25 UTC
CCP doesn't have anything to do with ganking being lucrative. Idiots who haul freighters full of valuable cargo make it lucrative. Idiots who officer fit their mission-running ships make it lucrative. The game mechanics do not need to be changed yet again. It's your habits - CCP has made enough changes to hisec ganking. If you want a PvP-free zone, go to another game. We don't want that.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Daisai
Daisai Investments.
#134 - 2012-03-12 12:15:33 UTC
Suicide ganking is the result of a failure pvp system in a game which focused around pvp.

Nothing to be changed about the mechanics around suicide ganking, the thing they should do something about is the system around pvp in eve online.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#135 - 2012-03-12 12:27:52 UTC
Daisai wrote:
Suicide ganking is the result of a failure pvp system in a game which focused around pvp.

Nothing to be changed about the mechanics around suicide ganking, the thing they should do something about is the system around pvp in eve online.


I love how you make that assertion while failing to point out the flaws in this "failure PvP system."

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tenebrae Syrennis
Abattoir Research and Development
#136 - 2012-03-12 12:38:27 UTC
Daisai wrote:
Suicide ganking is the result of a failure pvp system in a game which focused around pvp.

Nothing to be changed about the mechanics around suicide ganking, the thing they should do something about is the system around pvp in eve online.



Oh my God! Another one!

Go away, will you.

Bloody Hell...Ugh

I have come to eat all your brains.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#137 - 2012-03-12 12:42:49 UTC
As an industrialist player who enjoys getting ganked every once in a while, I endorse ganking as long as it is used for personal gains like trying to claim a belt or a local market or trying to collect faction mods from wrecks that can be sold for profit. Of course, I have a different set of standards regarding bots as I feel that ganking bots should be surgically precise and not blindly shoot any miner in sight as legitimate players shouldn't suffer because someone next to them cheated in the game. But that's another topic for later.

Adapt or Die
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2012-03-12 13:00:38 UTC
Andski wrote:
CCP doesn't have anything to do with ganking being lucrative. Idiots who haul freighters full of valuable cargo make it lucrative. Idiots who officer fit their mission-running ships make it lucrative.


Not to mention the idiots who cry about it on the forums, which just makes more people want to suicide gank them whether it's profitable or not.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#139 - 2012-03-12 13:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Just thought I should drop this in.
http://red-frog.org/annual-report-2011.php

After all, in 54,530 contracts, a grand total of 16 have failed. (Lets assume they're all suicide ganks. There are other possibilities.)

Looks like keeping your total value below a billion works pretty well at making you less of a target.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Huuow
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#140 - 2012-03-12 13:37:04 UTC
What a nice thread, cleary going nowhere :)

I never understood why people cry so much about carebears and whatever while hanging desperatly on them like parasites, you know unable to live without them... also to quote Tenebrae Syrennis "Get out of our game, you over-entitled pathetic willing victims" sounds indeed more than curious to me. "Get out of our game" ? Our?

From my perspective, and if it´s true that you can be ganked that often and easily, there is indeed a problem. It´s a pretty simple math for the gankers, is the target worth the ship losses, then engage. They lose their ship and sec status. The insurance doesn´t pay the ship and once they are below a certain level, they can be attacked without consequences. Everythings fine. (Except maybe, is there really no way of escaping concorde? Automatical loss is somehow boring...) AND everything would be fine if those gankers wouldn´t be just throw away alts, so sec status doesn´t really bother them...

The changes I would enforce are probably those tending towards player courage and against Alt usage... If high secers cannot deal with -5 outlaws, shame on them. Gankers should loose sec status much faster, maybe proportional to their activity. Commit a crime in high sec, you loose status, commit a second crime within a certain time span, you loose much more status and again with a third crime... One got to -5 real quick and then has to deal with the pimped carebear ships. Outlaw Alts would have to be recycled much quicker and therefore less of fun...

On the downside, if you wanna experience this type of game, and you´re the type of I got one main that´s it player, you have a hard time coming clean with the empire... maybe there has to be some sort of absolution...


all this well you know, in case there is really a Pirate problem, which I don´t know.