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agreed :(

the only thing we have going for us is they won't know it. so we have to all keep it quiet so they never know. it's for their own fragile little ego's good.

As someone who used the Skiff as a lowsec hauler (until the tier 3 BC's came out) I assure everyone concerned that whatever uses CCP says the ships are for, we will continue to be able to use them for whatever demented purposes we please.

OK so CCP is only messing with destroyer and battle cruiser.

CCP, can you confirm you will have no intentions in the future to screw "Recon", "Heavy Assault" and "Logistics" into racial skills?

Also, bring BS to level 4 for cap is noobifying the game.

Again and Again, again and again you've been noobifying EVE showing your disregard and disrespect for older players who have invested skills and time to do what they can do now.

Example given in the blog about combat ships, attack vessels, bombardment ships, support vessels is not for EVE player base - this is for new DUST 514 players who will be joining eve. EVE players know what each ship does, how to fit it, and what to do with it. I can say this is probably why most of us play EVE - we took our time and interest to learn it.

Okay... one more time because saving drafts works as intended.

It's time to give up here.

My point was: The new skills have to cancel each other out or otherwise one line of ships will have an advantage, and will thus be used more while other lines will not be used at all.
That would mean the entire change does not achieve what it set out to achieve. Because the problem it intends to fix is that currently certain ships are not being used, usually based on their Tier.

...... And you start telling me how Prophecies and Feroxes are currently not balanced compared to the respective upper Tier of BCs, and how Ferox and Drake have different weapon systems? Are you ******* serious?

I wrote a long paragraph insulting your intelligence, but by now I have to assume that neither you nor Ranger would understand it. It's simply not worth discussing game mechanics and game design changes with people who do not understand the topic of discussion (until I write 4 different posts explaining it), much less understand the mechanics in question or how fleet doctrines are designed as a result.

I think it's impossible to oversee the consequences of this. I guess I don't care since the playing field will be the same for everyone.

I just hope the skill point reimbursement is fair. I've been working for a long time on the skill set I have and I wouldn't look forward to being put back to square one.

Also, rebalancing one ship at a time shouldn't start from frigate level and go from there. Nobody cares that T1 frigates are useless. We *DO*, however, care that null-sec is filling up with more and more supercaps that are gettting harder and harder to beat and making the game less and less playable. Taking away people's battlecruiser skills isn't going to fix that, imho.

T-

Okay, the first thing you typed is actually relevant, the last paragraph is just silly.

I'll say this as simply as possible. Tier 1 BCs are NOT balanced with Tier 2 BCs. They just aren't. Tier 2s are FAR superior in just about every respect. That's what they want to change, making the tier system go away.

Making the skills equal so one ship doesn't have an advantage? are you serious? The skills don't balance out, they buff different things. Which would you say is "better" a caracal or a blackbird? If all you're concerned about is dps and ehp, then you're going to say the caracal, obviously. It has better fittings, more slots, etc. However... 1v1, the BB will make it a standstill every time. They have different roles and that's why they're nearly balanced. This is the rare exception to the rule. Imagine if all the races had different bonuses that were useful for specific situations? It would mean you don't automatically pick the "highest tier" ship for combat, you pick the one that has the most use for the situation or tactical plan you have.

Read through my examples again, and try not to be so stubborn about it. You're flat out wrong in this. I give you solid examples and you're just calling people names. Bad form for a debate. Give specific reasons why you're right, or try giving specific reasons why I'm wrong, because so far you haven't done either.

"Attack vessels: Made for hit and run assault, or flanking opportunities. Have great damage and mobility, but average defense. Similar in role with cavalry. EVE examples: Armageddon, Megathron, Tempest, Oracle, Thorax, Hurricane, Dominix, Myrmidon."


Am I seeing the Dominix being described as having great damage and mobility? Is there some speed boost to the Domi I don't know about?

There is no problem with skills countering each other on a basic level. There is a problem with that if those skills are introduced arbitrarily as a time-sink, so people have to train longer to reach the same level of overall efficiency with the same ship as before.

The 10% number for both skills was picked at random, and would actually not be balanced at all. I later edited the post to change the EHP number to "X" instead.

As a rule, there's two different types of engagements with very different parameters: Small scale and large scale. They have different requirements in terms of fleet doctrines. On a very basic level, though, it's usually a mixture of DPS(or Alpha)/EHP ratio, engagement range, maneuverability. (There are other values, obviously, but let's keep it simple.)
Balancing those against each other - on one ship compared to all other ships, inside its class and out - is incredibly difficult in the first place. Now if you start adding skills that simply give a certain line of ships more of one of those attributes, how much of a different attribute do you have to assign to a different line of ships with a different skill to make up for that? At a guess: You won't get that right the first couple of tries. Nor will CCP.

The issue is if they get it wrong, and one line of ships ends up with a better DPS/EHP ratio at an acceptable range, that line of ships will instantly be fathom of the month. And other ships will be neglected. At the moment you have certain fairly useless Tiers of ships. If you get this change wrong, you have a ton more useless and unused ships than before.

So no matter where they go with this plan, it more or less can't work well. And from a player perspective, there's definitely no advantage in adding those skills in particular.

The reference to the "ship of the line" is somewhat lacking in allegorical relevance since, in EVE, conga-line combat has dubious tactical value. I suggest that CCP Ytterbium and all involved in ship rebalancing take that into consideration and hence forth refer to the subjects of their efforts as "ship of the blob".

In fact, the last paragraph was the most important, as you just demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt. Thank you for that.