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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

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Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1321 - 2012-03-07 22:50:36 UTC
Morar Santee wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Are you ********? Like, seriously, mentally disabled? "A skill that further boosts" translates to "must have" in competitive gameplay. Which means you are forced to train further skills for ships you can currently fly (well) already.


You would still be able to fly them just as well as you always have, there would simply be new options available. From your point of view there can never be room for improvement because you (and others) might actually feel the desire to actually take advantage of those improvements.

Seriously my friend, think before you post.


Yes. Obviously. And I guess you never trained Engineering, Weapon Upgrades, a ship skill past I, or any T2 guns - because those are all totally optional and only "further improve" a ship. Like, totally optional. And if they introduce a new line of support skills that is just as optional (except that it directly increases EHP/DPS) and was not previously required for anything, because, well, it isn't really required to be there in the first place, that is also just as optional.

Just gtfo troll.


They're not required. You will be able to keep flying the ships you have right now at the skill level you can fly them at right now. Remember when Advanced Weapon Upgrades came out? It didn't instantly mean all your ships were worthless and you were a sack of useless poo to be flung forth like cannon fodder. No, it meant you were just as good as you always were, but if you wanted to be EVEN better, you now had that option. Sure, I trained that skill up to 3 when it first came out, then I went back to my other skills i was working on at the time. Eventually I trained AWU to 5 just so i could get every last ounce of performance out of my ship without resorting to officer mods, but I wouldn't say it was necessary.

Will we all eventually get the new skills, and probably get them to 5? Sure, that goes without saying, but to complain about having to train up these new skills just to be able to play the game? That's just silly. It would be like complaining about having to buy a second monitor because I just gave you a second video card. It would be like complaining about having to buy a new car just because you got a raise. Your old car works just fine, you're the one deciding you HAVE to buy a new car just because you can afford 500 bucks a month instead of 300 from before.

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1322 - 2012-03-07 22:52:01 UTC
Pharaik wrote:
Ok then ranger explain?

Adding in new ship skills and more linar systems to the ship skilling does exactly what??

Cos 6 months down the line and i have re-trained all the new **** there gonna put in and my ships are still capable of doing what they can today achieved exactly.......oh wait nothing.

There are too many ships in this game that never get used cos they are simple overpowered by cheaper t1 varients. They need to bring in better ship roles and bonus's to make them ships better and to properly function.


Pharaik, you really need to read the thread.

To hit the high points, in order of the questions you raised...

1: You won't have to retrain any skills to be able to fly them exactly as you do today.
2: New players can specialize far more quickly in a particular path. To cross train will take slightly longer.
3: Removal of the Tier system allows obsolete ships to be redisigned to actually be useful.
4: Existing ships will be easily rebalanced to more accurately reflect their role.
5: New skills can be easily introduced to enhance them in ways not possible today.
6: Better ship roles and bonus's are exactly what these changes will enable.

If you want in depth explanations, you'll have to do some reading.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pharaik
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1323 - 2012-03-07 22:54:33 UTC
I Appologise i miss read the part where it said they were to remove the tiers from ships. Oops
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1324 - 2012-03-07 22:54:34 UTC
Morar Santee wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Are you ********? Like, seriously, mentally disabled? "A skill that further boosts" translates to "must have" in competitive gameplay. Which means you are forced to train further skills for ships you can currently fly (well) already.


You would still be able to fly them just as well as you always have, there would simply be new options available. From your point of view there can never be room for improvement because you (and others) might actually feel the desire to actually take advantage of those improvements.

Seriously my friend, think before you post.


Yes. Obviously. And I guess you never trained Engineering, Weapon Upgrades, a ship skill past I, or any T2 guns - because those are all totally optional and only "further improve" a ship. Like, totally optional. And if they introduce a new line of support skills that is just as optional (except that it directly increases EHP/DPS) and was not previously required for anything, because, well, it isn't really required to be there in the first place, that is also just as optional.

This change totally doesn't add to the total training time required to fly any single sub-cap in the game.

Just gtfo troll.

They ARE optional. Aside from what is specifically stated in the prereqs for a ship, everything IS OPTIONAL. Can you fly a legion without being able to use lasers or missiles at all? YES! Can I train HML's for a tengu but not get T2 trained? YES! Do I just sit in dock for 2 years because I don't have max skills to fly a particular ship? VERY MUCH NO.
Josef Stylin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1325 - 2012-03-07 22:56:22 UTC
Haven't read through 67 pages, so perhaps this topic has been already covered, but..

Isn't the 'if you can fly it now' kind of screwing over new players? That is, people who can train the skills now will have all the races levelled up - effectively giving 400% return on their SP. New players that cannot start powerskilling up Destroyers and Battlecruisers will, ultimately, have to spend 4x longer to get to the equivalent position with those that skilled up before the system was changed.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1326 - 2012-03-07 22:57:57 UTC
Moraguth wrote:
Morar Santee wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Are you ********? Like, seriously, mentally disabled? "A skill that further boosts" translates to "must have" in competitive gameplay. Which means you are forced to train further skills for ships you can currently fly (well) already.


You would still be able to fly them just as well as you always have, there would simply be new options available. From your point of view there can never be room for improvement because you (and others) might actually feel the desire to actually take advantage of those improvements.

Seriously my friend, think before you post.


Yes. Obviously. And I guess you never trained Engineering, Weapon Upgrades, a ship skill past I, or any T2 guns - because those are all totally optional and only "further improve" a ship. Like, totally optional. And if they introduce a new line of support skills that is just as optional (except that it directly increases EHP/DPS) and was not previously required for anything, because, well, it isn't really required to be there in the first place, that is also just as optional.

Just gtfo troll.


They're not required. You will be able to keep flying the ships you have right now at the skill level you can fly them at right now. Remember when Advanced Weapon Upgrades came out? It didn't instantly mean all your ships were worthless and you were a sack of useless poo to be flung forth like cannon fodder. No, it meant you were just as good as you always were, but if you wanted to be EVEN better, you now had that option. Sure, I trained that skill up to 3 when it first came out, then I went back to my other skills i was working on at the time. Eventually I trained AWU to 5 just so i could get every last ounce of performance out of my ship without resorting to officer mods, but I wouldn't say it was necessary.

Will we all eventually get the new skills, and probably get them to 5? Sure, that goes without saying, but to complain about having to train up these new skills just to be able to play the game? That's just silly. It would be like complaining about having to buy a second monitor because I just gave you a second video card. It would be like complaining about having to buy a new car just because you got a raise. Your old car works just fine, you're the one deciding you HAVE to buy a new car just because you can afford 500 bucks a month instead of 300 from before.


I will just add to this that if you truly feel these skills would be mandatory, and so would everybody else, just exactly HOW are you disadvantaged?

You have lost nothing of your current performance against other ships, you can only increase it... and are in EXACTLY the same boat as everyone else that decides to improve their performance in that particular ship beyond it's current level.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Benilopax
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1327 - 2012-03-07 22:58:02 UTC
You guys are all crazy.

It's the first spark of an idea, submitted to us for our feedback, this isn't coming out on tuesday! Sheesh...

...
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1328 - 2012-03-07 22:59:04 UTC
Pharaik wrote:
I Appologise i miss read the part where it said they were to remove the tiers from ships. Oops



Absolutely not a problem. This thread is a little hard to keep track of. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Sunviking
Doomheim
#1329 - 2012-03-07 22:59:11 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Sunviking wrote:
As stated earlier in the thread, my main concern with this Skills tree change is that certain pilots will be able to fly Command Ships they currently cannot do because they have BC 5 but don't have Racial Cruiser 5 i.e. if they get all 4 Racial BC skills to 5 in the update, because Command Ships no longer require Racial Cruiser 5, these pilots will get free access to certain Command Ships.

Clearly this needs to be avoided by CCP to unduely benefit certain players.

Nah... actually I think we currently put way too much stock into skills already. The big games in EvE... the ones worth winning... are usually won because you were lucky, were smart, were prepared, etc... and really I think that's how EvE should be. If a nub can tackle me and fit a ship better to kill me with, he deserves the kill. Personally I would like to see the performance gulf between T1 and T2 narrow so as to give a T2 pilot only the slightest in statistical advantages. Victory or mission accomplishment, whatever that means to you, should be more about better planning and/or execution, and less about how long you have played. ...and so what if a nub is in a Nighthawk? Let 'em! If they can afford it why can't everyone fly Nighthawks? They sure look good on a killboard.

I'm coming up on 100 mil SP. That shouldn't mean a damn thing to anyone.

Let's diminish all skills to where they only keep trial accounts out of good ships and provide only the slightest advantage to anyone maxing them out.


"For tech 2 ships, it creates an overcomplicated nest of skill requirements, as you need both the Cruiser and Battlecruiser skills to 5 to train for a Command Ship for example."

The above kind of suggests that CCP are going to drop the Racial Cruiser 5 requirement for Command Ships and replace it with Racial Battlecruiser 5. Unless I am mistaken.
Morar Santee
#1330 - 2012-03-07 23:02:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Morar Santee
Moraguth wrote:
Will we all eventually get the new skills, and probably get them to 5? Sure, that goes without saying, but to complain about having to train up these new skills just to be able to play the game? That's just silly. It would be like complaining about having to buy a second monitor because I just gave you a second video card.


Yes, except there is no new video card. In fact, there is nothing new at all.

You get the same ships you had before, except you have to retrain to use every single one of them competitively. It simply adds additional time-sinks into a game that already has fairly slow, time-based skill-progression.
I actually like that system, but if someone's telling me: "GJ making a skill-training plan for 5 years. Now please retrain for all your ships." Then the answer is: FU.

And that you are incapable of seeing this for what it is, is really sad beyond words.

If this was an instance of introducing something new and saying: "You need new skills to do this." - I wouldn't be saying a word. I happily trained for every Strategic Cruiser. I didn't do any PI, but it made sense it required new skills.
But it's an instance of: Same **** as before. Lolol wait 10 more months for the same thing.

Now, before you claim abolishing tiers and rebalancing everything is the most awesome thing in the world and totally makes it worth training those skills: You have no ******* clue how that will turn out. All evidence points to it likely ending in a gigantic clusterfuck. Even if it doesn't: For this to be an improvement, they'd have to make all t1 frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers equally desirable and competitive - while not rendering other ships useless. And you seriously believe that's going to happen?
Sigras
Conglomo
#1331 - 2012-03-07 23:03:37 UTC
Sunviking wrote:
"For tech 2 ships, it creates an overcomplicated nest of skill requirements, as you need both the Cruiser and Battlecruiser skills to 5 to train for a Command Ship for example."

The above kind of suggests that CCP are going to drop the Racial Cruiser 5 requirement for Command Ships and replace it with Racial Battlecruiser 5. Unless I am mistaken.

good catch . . . i didnt notice that . . .
Barbens
New Eden Industrial Services
#1332 - 2012-03-07 23:09:23 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

CSM NOT INCLUDED?!:

[list]
  • I will be honest by saying this is due to my own failure here, please do not blame CCP, or any other employee on that matter. I just plainly and simply forgot to include them in the feedback process; I know that sounds incredibly stupid, unbelievable or even naive, but you have to realize that between various work duties, procedures that have to be followed, internal meetings and reviews, random design emergencies, questions that pop-up from your team, plus being split into different projects that have to be finished in time, you are bound to forget things in the heat of the moment for being tremendously busy.



    • All I see there are excuses about work and how busy you were in your duties. As a company, you have setup the CSM as a representative body of your player base. They're there to give you feedback on changes you're planning on making. The fact that you ignored, not forgot, them is inexcusable. Shouldn't the design process include a reality check in there somewhere?

    "Hey guys, lets give all new accounts 1b ISK to get them a head start in game" could have just as easily flown by if you were in charge of the process. Its not about the quality of the work you do, its about checking all the boxes. The CSM is there to make sure ya'll stay on target and give you a gauge of what it is players think about what you're doing.

    I asked Bhallgorn if you should click this link, this is what he said...
    Moraguth
    Ranger Corp
    Vae. Victis.
    #1333 - 2012-03-07 23:11:41 UTC
    Morar Santee wrote:
    Moraguth wrote:
    Will we all eventually get the new skills, and probably get them to 5? Sure, that goes without saying, but to complain about having to train up these new skills just to be able to play the game? That's just silly. It would be like complaining about having to buy a second monitor because I just gave you a second video card.


    Yes, except there is no new video card. In fact, there is nothing new at all.

    You get the same ships you had before, except you have to retrain to use every single one of them competitively. It simply adds additional time-sinks into a game that already has fairly slow, time-based skill-progression.
    I actually like that system, but if someone's telling me: "GJ making a skill-training plan for 5 years. Now please retrain for all your ships." Then the answer is: FU.

    And that you are incapable of seeing this for what it is, is really sad beyond words.

    If this was an instance of introducing something new and saying: "You need new skills to do this." - I wouldn't be saying a word. I happily trained for every Strategic Cruiser. I didn't do any PI, but it made sense it required new skills.
    But it's an instance of: Same **** as before. Lolol wait 10 more months for the same thing.

    Now, before you claim abolishing tiers and rebalancing everything is the most awesome thing in the world and totally makes it worth training those skills: You have no ******* clue how that will turn out. All evidence points to it likely ending in a gigantic clusterfuck. Even if it doesn't: For this to be an improvement, they'd have to make all t1 frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers equally desirable and competitive - while not rendering other ships useless. And you seriously believe that's going to happen?


    Someone said it before, but I think you missed it completely. Every time you say "have to retrain", a dev sheds a tear. YOU DON"T HAVE TO RETRAIN ANYTHING. I say it in all caps not to yell, but so that you will hopefully see it. If you can fly with max skills pre-patch, you will fly with the same skills post-patch. As soon as you log in.

    A second thing we're talking about is the addition of completely new skills that do new things. No, I'm not talking about racial destroyer/BC skills. Those are new skills to do the same things as before, just split up. I'm not a fan of it, but meh... it doesn't hurt me, I just don't like useless changes. The NEW skills will change NEW things, and we have no idea what those will be, but they certainly aren't mandatory to get the same performance out of the ships you're currently flying.

    And the third thing we're talking about is the removal of the tier system. tbh, at this point, they can't mess it up. It was a great system when there were 3 classes of ships and it seemed to take forever to earn the money to go from a tier 1 frig to a tier 4 frig. And the time/isk investment to get from a cruiser up to a BS was M O N U M E N T A L. The economy, the NPE, the support structure for n00bs, everything is different now and it is possible to have the skills and the isk to fly a BC fairly well in just a couple weeks after starting the game. Since that's changed, there are a ton of ships that most new people have probably never even contemplated sitting in. Removing the tier system, if nothing else, has a chance of changing that. And in this case, change is good.

    I got a Feature Added!

    Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon
    Sigras
    Conglomo
    #1334 - 2012-03-07 23:12:22 UTC
    Morar Santee wrote:
    Moraguth wrote:
    Will we all eventually get the new skills, and probably get them to 5? Sure, that goes without saying, but to complain about having to train up these new skills just to be able to play the game? That's just silly. It would be like complaining about having to buy a second monitor because I just gave you a second video card.


    Yes, except there is no new video card. In fact, there is nothing new at all.

    You get the same ships you had before, except you have to retrain to use every single one of them competitively. It simply adds additional time-sinks into a game that already has fairly slow, time-based skill-progression.
    I actually like that system, but if someone's telling me: "GJ making a skill-training plan for 5 years. Now please retrain for all your ships." Then the answer is: FU.

    And that you are incapable of seeing this for what it is, is really sad beyond words.

    If this was an instance of introducing something new and saying: "You need new skills to do this." - I wouldn't be saying a word. I happily trained for every Strategic Cruiser. I didn't do any PI, but it made sense it required new skills.
    But it's an instance of: Same **** as before. Lolol wait 10 more months for the same thing.

    Now, before you claim abolishing tiers and rebalancing everything is the most awesome thing in the world and totally makes it worth training those skills: You have no ******* clue how that will turn out. All evidence points to it likely ending in a gigantic clusterfuck. Even if it doesn't: For this to be an improvement, they'd have to make all t1 frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers equally desirable and competitive - while not rendering other ships useless. And you seriously believe that's going to happen?

    wow ok, first of all, they mentioned "additional support skills" in passing as a way to keep it from getting too easy to get into T2 ships, and you just naturally assume these skills will do nothing to the ship!

    Secondly, what part of "if you can fly it today you can fly it tomorrow" didnt you understand?

    Thirdly, its not like you're being singled out for this change, if you have to train additional skills "to be competitive" then everyone else has to train those skills too, and unless you're an idiot youre going to train them just as fast as everyone else

    And Lastly, if you're relying on SP to make you good at PvP you've lost already.
    Gogela
    Epic Ganking Time
    CODE.
    #1335 - 2012-03-07 23:13:08 UTC
    Sunviking wrote:
    Gogela wrote:
    Sunviking wrote:
    As stated earlier in the thread, my main concern with this Skills tree change is that certain pilots will be able to fly Command Ships they currently cannot do because they have BC 5 but don't have Racial Cruiser 5 i.e. if they get all 4 Racial BC skills to 5 in the update, because Command Ships no longer require Racial Cruiser 5, these pilots will get free access to certain Command Ships.

    Clearly this needs to be avoided by CCP to unduely benefit certain players.

    Nah... actually I think we currently put way too much stock into skills already. The big games in EvE... the ones worth winning... are usually won because you were lucky, were smart, were prepared, etc... and really I think that's how EvE should be. If a nub can tackle me and fit a ship better to kill me with, he deserves the kill. Personally I would like to see the performance gulf between T1 and T2 narrow so as to give a T2 pilot only the slightest in statistical advantages. Victory or mission accomplishment, whatever that means to you, should be more about better planning and/or execution, and less about how long you have played. ...and so what if a nub is in a Nighthawk? Let 'em! If they can afford it why can't everyone fly Nighthawks? They sure look good on a killboard.

    I'm coming up on 100 mil SP. That shouldn't mean a damn thing to anyone.

    Let's diminish all skills to where they only keep trial accounts out of good ships and provide only the slightest advantage to anyone maxing them out.


    "For tech 2 ships, it creates an overcomplicated nest of skill requirements, as you need both the Cruiser and Battlecruiser skills to 5 to train for a Command Ship for example."

    The above kind of suggests that CCP are going to drop the Racial Cruiser 5 requirement for Command Ships and replace it with Racial Battlecruiser 5. Unless I am mistaken.

    No you are right.

    I'm just saying 'so what'. You know, early MMOs would just shut down the game and start a new one, or do a skill reset after a time. It was the only way to keep it fresh. Eve's been around since 2003. We are long overdue for a "refresh". I'm not saying reset skills or 'lets start eve over', I'm just saying maybe skills should be diminished in importance as a psudo-refresh. I would like to see how long you've played the game as less important and how well you play as more important. Yes I think some skills should have shorter training times and certain prerequisite skills be removed as prerequisites, and some skills should decrease their time multiplier over time allowing people to catch up quicker.

    Quote:
    ... these pilots will get free access to certain Command Ships

    Yah. So I'm responding to this with "well... good!"

    Signatures should be used responsibly...
    Tyberius Franklin
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #1336 - 2012-03-07 23:14:21 UTC
    Morar Santee wrote:

    Yes, except there is no new video card. In fact, there is nothing new at all.

    You get the same ships you had before, except you have to retrain to use every single one of them competitively. It simply adds additional time-sinks into a game that already has fairly slow, time-based skill-progression.
    I actually like that system, but if someone's telling me: "GJ making a skill-training plan for 5 years. Now please retrain for all your ships." Then the answer is: FU.

    And that you are incapable of seeing this for what it is, is really sad beyond words.

    If this was an instance of introducing something new and saying: "You need new skills to do this." - I wouldn't be saying a word. I happily trained for every Strategic Cruiser. I didn't do any PI, but it made sense it required new skills.
    But it's an instance of: Same **** as before. Lolol wait 10 more months for the same thing.

    Now, before you claim abolishing tiers and rebalancing everything is the most awesome thing in the world and totally makes it worth training those skills: You have no ******* clue how that will turn out. All evidence points to it likely ending in a gigantic clusterfuck. Even if it doesn't: For this to be an improvement, they'd have to make all t1 frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers equally desirable and competitive - while not rendering other ships useless. And you seriously believe that's going to happen?

    I'm sorry, but what aspects of the proposed are you upset about specifically? You lost me.
    There is no retraining as proposed currently as your BC lvl would be replicated across all the new BC skills. So instead of flying say, a myrm with lvl 5 bonuses you will have... lvl 5 bonuses.

    But most importantly, regarding the rebalance and removal of tiers, unless your stance is everything is fine as is and there are no changes that could be made, how is your complaint anything but baseless negativity aimed at efforts to address a problem we all know exists?
    Morar Santee
    #1337 - 2012-03-07 23:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Morar Santee
    Moraguth wrote:
    Someone said it before, but I think you missed it completely. Every time you say "have to retrain", a dev sheds a tear. YOU DON"T HAVE TO RETRAIN ANYTHING. I say it in all caps not to yell, but so that you will hopefully see it. If you can fly with max skills pre-patch, you will fly with the same skills post-patch. As soon as you log in.

    Yes. Except we already established that if CCP decides to add new support skills that are in fact mandatory to fly a ship competitively, that requires you to retrain to use the ship competitively. As this is a game revolving around competition, you probably want to use your ship competitively. Ergo you have to train those new support skills to fly the same ships as before, ergo you have to re-train.

    In fact, that you are not capable of understanding what is being discussed is probably a sign you have no place in this discussion in the first place.
    Moraguth
    Ranger Corp
    Vae. Victis.
    #1338 - 2012-03-07 23:15:19 UTC
    Sigras wrote:
    Morar Santee wrote:
    Moraguth wrote:
    Will ....


    Yes....

    ....

    And Lastly, if you're relying on SP to make you good at PvP you've lost already.


    This was the best part. Thanks!

    I got a Feature Added!

    Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon
    Danny Husk
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #1339 - 2012-03-07 23:16:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny Husk
    Time to train racial BS IV x4 today:

    64d

    Time to train racial BS IV x4 after "Inferno":

    98d

    Here is my offer to you, CCP:

    I buy one PLEX, drop it to my hangar at Jita 4-4, and trash it.

    You delete this threadnaught and just pretend that whole "racial BC and destroyer skills" thing never happened.

    We call it even.
    Morar Santee
    #1340 - 2012-03-07 23:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Morar Santee
    Tyberius Franklin wrote:
    Morar Santee wrote:

    Yes, except there is no new video card. In fact, there is nothing new at all.

    You get the same ships you had before, except you have to retrain to use every single one of them competitively. It simply adds additional time-sinks into a game that already has fairly slow, time-based skill-progression.
    I actually like that system, but if someone's telling me: "GJ making a skill-training plan for 5 years. Now please retrain for all your ships." Then the answer is: FU.

    And that you are incapable of seeing this for what it is, is really sad beyond words.

    If this was an instance of introducing something new and saying: "You need new skills to do this." - I wouldn't be saying a word. I happily trained for every Strategic Cruiser. I didn't do any PI, but it made sense it required new skills.
    But it's an instance of: Same **** as before. Lolol wait 10 more months for the same thing.

    Now, before you claim abolishing tiers and rebalancing everything is the most awesome thing in the world and totally makes it worth training those skills: You have no ******* clue how that will turn out. All evidence points to it likely ending in a gigantic clusterfuck. Even if it doesn't: For this to be an improvement, they'd have to make all t1 frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers equally desirable and competitive - while not rendering other ships useless. And you seriously believe that's going to happen?

    I'm sorry, but what aspects of the proposed are you upset about specifically? You lost me.
    There is no retraining as proposed currently as your BC lvl would be replicated across all the new BC skills. So instead of flying say, a myrm with lvl 5 bonuses you will have... lvl 5 bonuses.

    But most importantly, regarding the rebalance and removal of tiers, unless your stance is everything is fine as is and there are no changes that could be made, how is your complaint anything but baseless negativity aimed at efforts to address a problem we all know exists?


    Answer:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

    It groups vessels into easily identifiable lines for each race and allow us to add new skills to support them. That is the purpose of the ship line skills mentioned above, which could further boost respective advantages. Combat ship line skills could give a bonus to defense, while attack ship skills benefit offense and mobility for example.