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No, it just adds a bit more gravitas to the choice — it does not remove any.

Actually, it does away with many of those choices and the ones they add (Dessy IV and BC IV) are so insignificant that they don't matter on the scale of things. In exchange, you can specify what you want to train far better than before since they're removing the cross-tier requirements: if you want to train HACs, you can simply train HACs — no need for the frigate nonsense; if you want to train Fleet CS, you can train Fleet CS and not have to care about the Logi nonsense.

You get more choices, and very little in added consequences since the ship skills are still a rather minor part of what you need to train in order to go for width rather than depth.

Hopefully they are just trolling us.

I can't see how this can be good in any way. More skills for people train? If anything you should be removing skills, not adding more!

we just got rid of learning skills FFS.

Well, you are caldari, and I know you don't take part in large fleets, so you haven't experienced the pain of being a gallente subcap pilot in Eve for the past few years. As things stand, it is fairly easy to cross train to a new race(only takes about a month to train into a battleship able to fit meta 4 large guns, if you are crosstraining). Then again, what we are conditioned to think of as 'easy' in eve is pretty skewed already, considering you can max out at the most popular MMO in the world in 14 days.

If we know that tomorrow minmatar ships will be as good as gallente will be as good as caldari will be as good as amarr, and all will be able to be built to the same performance profiles so they can keep up in a fleet, making cross training harder will be ok. Till that day lets keep race loyalty a personal choice, and let those of us who are trying to compete not be forced to effectively start over.

Edit: having BCs crosstrainable in a week or 2 is a huge help too when you have to comply with fleet doctrines.

…you mean aside from me training Gallente as my first race and having used those ships pretty much exclusively back in my large-fleet days? Yeah, no, assumptions are bad for you so stop using them because they can only ever make you look foolish.

…and after this change, the difficulty is pretty much the same. The only difference is that you need to get Destroyers IV (a day an a half) to go to Cruisers and above, and Battlecruiser IV (4 days) to go to Battleships and above. Unless you absolutely have to have BC V or Dessy V, that's the only difference, and if you're getting that BC V to get into command ships, this new setup is actually faster than the old one.

Fun fact: BC will still be cross-trainable in a week or 2.

So you are planning to add additional support skills per ship line? Where’s the benefit in that? Currently I can fly the Cane "perfectly" with all support skills at 5. After this change I will still be able to fly the Cane (Gallente char), thanks to the planned reimbursement. But I will need to train new skills for its ship line to fly it as good as before. I will need to do it for all ship lines...

I don't mind splitting generic skills into race specific skills as long as the players are reimbursed accordingly. I don't mind if you change the requirement tree, if BS5 for caps or AS4 for hacs are reimbursed. But I don't believe adding more support skills to a already long list will benefit the game or the players.

An interesting blog and one I'll have to think on for a bit.

Some questions (which may already have been answered; I haven't read the threadnaught)
- Battlecruisers V is currently a prerequisite for Command Ships skill, with racial cruiser V and (support ship skill) IV needed to fly the ship. I take it that will be changed to avoid creating 4 racial command ship skills

- Will the current requirements for the Covetor be fixed? Currently it has the same requirements (except for exhumers skill) as a hulk resulting in everybody sticking with retrievers while training up. I would suggest changing either the required mining barge skill or astrogeology skill to IV. Dropping both to IV would IMO be overkill

- It's always amused me that flying a freighter required Advanced Spaceship Command skill while flying an Orca, which is the same size, only required Spaceship Command V. Will this be changed

- Any thoughts on integrating the Industrial Command Ships and Capital Industrial Ships skills? The ships involved have broadly the same purpose (boost/haul) and the Rorqual specific bits (Capital ships skill) could easily be taken out. It could result in the following skill: Industrial Command (requires mining barge V, Leadership V, Mining Director I). To fly an Orca you'd need this at level I and Spaceship Command V (or Advanced Spaceship Command I). To fly a Rorqual you might need this skill at III-IV plus Capital Ships II (and Jump skills of course)

- On a further note, any thoughts on removing Spaceship Command/Advanced Spaceship Command/Capital Ships skill as a prerequisite from the various ship type skills and implementing them as a (higher level) ship secondary skill (if they aren't already there)? For instance, an Archon requires Capital Ships I, Amarr Carrier I, and Jump Drive Operations I. However Amarr Carrier skill also requires Capital Ships III which to me seems over the top*. A neater solution would be to have the Archon require Capital Ships III to begin with, with Amarr Carriers skill not having a Capital Ships requirement. In practice this wouldn't change things though the various planning skill trees would be weeded.

* Capital Industrial Ships skill is worse, with Advanced Spaceship Command and Capital Ships skills both being secondary skill requirements. The Rorqual itself also has Capital Ships II as a requirement.

Comments?

What about making the bc skill a lower training time multiplier so that training the 4 new bc skills to 5 will take the same time or something along those line?

No. About the time when Amarr and MInmatar were the mainstay of fleets, especially for the ship sizes I fly. I'l say it again before I break out the personal abuse: stop assuming things because they only ever make you look foolish.

Sure doesn't, largely because you forgot to add the things that actually take time when you cross-train. The difference is a few days, which is very little compared to the month you describe, which comes from having to learn new weapons, new tanks, new ewar — the basic ship skills are a very small part of the cross-training slog.

So let's fix that list:

Frigs IV + Cruiser IV + BS IV + Small Guns + Medium Guns + Large Guns + Tank + EWar ~ Frigs IV + Dessy IV + Cruiser IV + BC IV + BS IV + Small Guns + Medium Guns + Large Guns + Tank + EWar. A far cry from twice the training time.

…while removing a whole lot more unnecessary crap that people don't want to train for and which sits in the way of people specialising earlier. With those silly prereqs out of the way, you can get further faster.

Since all it is is two more skills that are done away with in very short order (and one of which is very popular for personal use), any added difficulty rather suggest a problem with your leadership…

Still wondering why people think they should get free SP out of this. Namely, 3x more SP than they invested.

Unless you somehow trained your BC skills up 4 separate times, I fail to see why players should be given SP's to cover doing so. You trained it once... reimburse the SP's necessary to train it once again, into a specific race.

These changes are an awful idea.

they are not needed

stop wasting development time on un needed changes