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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#981 - 2012-03-07 03:59:15 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
WHAT THE **** IS THIS ****???
Any _SANE_ revamp would have aimed at making it easier to crosstrain, having base ship type skills with race-specific specialization.


Why?

You're training completely different ships for each race. Different radar types. Different propulsion. Different armor and shield systems.

Look at it like this; just because a pilot is trained to fly an F-22 doesn't mean he's going to be able to fly a MiG-35.
Yeah, they're both fighter jets. They both use a flightstick. That's about where the similarities end.

Yes, and that is why you would need the racial specialization skills.

However someone flying an F-22 trying a MiG-35 would be much more skilled than someone flying a 787 trying out a MiG-35.


Well, actually neither one would be able to get it off the ground.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Zeron II Phenom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#982 - 2012-03-07 04:03:20 UTC
ok please help me , i cant play my game, its keeps telling me ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, server: Tranquility unknown , and it keeps make me upset, cani get a quick fix, ......... send info to my email, f.stomp@yahoo.com
Soporo
#983 - 2012-03-07 04:04:18 UTC
Smoke Adian wrote:
I would suggest dropping the whole roles classification thing. Yes, rebalance the useless ships like the ferox, but the roles thing is just dumb. For example you've got the caracal, drake, and raven in the same category when the only thing they have in common is their caldari origin.As far as Drakes go, you've got HAM Drakes, MWD Drakes, AB Drakes, Spider tanking drakes, PVE Drakes in various forms and the list goes on and on. You can't just say "oh that's a bombardment ship" especially when the one thing Drakes are not known for is their DPS.

Then you've got the Raven in there which really has nothing to do with drake - it's a pve boat that occasionally gets used for smartbombing.

Finally, the Caracal which has nothing to do with either of the other two. It's a cheap pve starter boat or throw away pvp support for new players

i.e. Just buff the known crappy ships and don't try tp reorganize all of EVE's ships into silly categories.


^^^

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Zircon Dasher
#984 - 2012-03-07 04:04:47 UTC
lol

OMG you guys are awesome! Thanks to the barrage of shitpoasting I just won 100m ISK because this thread hit 50 pages in less than 12hrs!!

I especially want to thank all the people debating how CCP should go about dealing with dessie V/ BC V even though they have already settled the issue. Much luv. <3

Now if only this devblog was not just a generalized planning blog.... then we might actually be able to discuss real issues

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#985 - 2012-03-07 04:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Degren
Ranger 1 wrote:
Degren wrote:
Still amused that the idea to keep destroyers and battlecruisers in the "progression line" as seperate skills made it past a board meeting.

Sounds like you intend to buff the other useless ships, then battlecruisers and especially destroyers as a "tier" will look pretty foolish.

All. You. Are. Doing. Is. *******. New. Players. Who. May. Need. To. Cross. Train. For. A. Corp/Alliance.


No, that is not all they are doing... far from it. There are many other benefits to streamlining the training path, but those have been outlined pretty completely earlier in the thread.

However, what you are saying is true, it does make it more difficult to cross train in those two specific classes of ship.

I suppose this part of the debate boils down to whether you believe it should be easy to cross train or not... and if so does it make many of the choices you've made up until that point, well, fairly pointless.


It's not easy to cross-train as is. Weapons, defense, etc must all be cross trained.

The basis of my argument is that they are basically making an entire seperate class of ship for one. ship. type. that is required to progress along into cruisers. Further, they are taking arguably the only reasonably well designed sub-cap T1 ship class (as in it has more than 2 useful ships) and nerfing it, splitting it into four, rather than buffing the other classes, as they actually need. There was some hinting at buffing them later, but that should be the FIRST priority, not lengthening skill training for reasons that are *ENTIRELY* arbitrary and really do nothing to aid new players, which is...presumably...the reason for changing ship order.

And new players won't be in T2 ships any faster, so long as cost is an issue. So that's complete bullshit.

Thanks, CCP.

Hello, hello again.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#986 - 2012-03-07 04:07:57 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Yes, and that is why you would need the racial specialization skills.

However someone flying an F-22 trying a MiG-35 would be much more skilled than someone flying a 787 trying out a MiG-35.


Well, actually neither one would be able to get it off the ground.

Reading is hard~~~

Nyan
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#987 - 2012-03-07 04:08:04 UTC
Me and my alliance have talked about it in detail.

Basically what concerns us is CCPs line that they will Give old players additional SP so they can fly what they could before. New players will have to train more.
I bet people who read this devblog are already training Battlecruiser from 4 to 5 as it will probably guaranteee that they get all racial skills.

If that will be CCPs way what they will do is widen the SP gap of Old and New players by a huge margin. Just becouse most old players have these skills to 5.

Only smart solution we could come up with is to make all T1 ship skills generic. For example:
Frigates
Cruisers
Destroyers
BCs
BSs

Other things on the dev blog are more or less agreeable.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Vertigo Ren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#988 - 2012-03-07 04:08:57 UTC
I'm liking these changes, though it seems I'm reading them differently from everyone else.

Or at least I can read the part where it says I'll still be able to fly what I already can fly in the new system.

With the dropping of tiers, I understand it as, I'd be able to fly any of the ships at lvl 1 of that skill. So for something like minnie BS, I can fly all three battleships right away. Then each ship has bonuses for different things that stack as I go through the levels.

This makes lots of sense!

This also seems to allow for new ships with various roles, My vote goes for RAMMING. Ramming Battleship!
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#989 - 2012-03-07 04:10:30 UTC
It is time for mandatory
[img]http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/files/2011/11/pony.jpg[/img]
to make this thread officially important.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#990 - 2012-03-07 04:11:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Ranger 1 wrote:
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
WHAT THE **** IS THIS ****???
Any _SANE_ revamp would have aimed at making it easier to crosstrain, having base ship type skills with race-specific specialization.


Why?

You're training completely different ships for each race. Different radar types. Different propulsion. Different armor and shield systems.

Look at it like this; just because a pilot is trained to fly an F-22 doesn't mean he's going to be able to fly a MiG-35.
Yeah, they're both fighter jets. They both use a flightstick. That's about where the similarities end.

Yes, and that is why you would need the racial specialization skills.

However someone flying an F-22 trying a MiG-35 would be much more skilled than someone flying a 787 trying out a MiG-35.


Well, actually neither one would be able to get it off the ground.

I think you are thinking of another MiG. The 35 is just a revamped 29. The MiG 1.44 might be what you are thinking of... they were calling it a 35 in the early 2000's in some circles but the NATO nomenclature is 1.44.

Edit:
...and now that I'm thinking of it an F-22 pilot has likely already flown a MiG-29 (the US has a ton of them) as that is part of their adversarial training... the thinking is knowing the performance capabilities of your opponent is a good thing. In all likelihood an F-22 pilot is going to be able to fly a MiG-35 with expert skill and can probably get you where you need to go in a 787 (the 787 lands itself).

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#991 - 2012-03-07 04:12:06 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Yes, and that is why you would need the racial specialization skills.

However someone flying an F-22 trying a MiG-35 would be much more skilled than someone flying a 787 trying out a MiG-35.


Well, actually neither one would be able to get it off the ground.

Reading is hard~~~


Being obtuse is, apparently, easy.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Elrinarie
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#992 - 2012-03-07 04:12:21 UTC
I have all cruisers to 5, battlecruisers to 5, hacs to 5, and command ships to 5....

If I have to train all separate races to 5 because this won't work out with the amount of skill points this is just plain BS.. just saying
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#993 - 2012-03-07 04:12:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
CCP: {redacted} yeah.

The game has needed this for years. This will seriously make me keep playing and, for that matter, start drooling messily over Inferno.

One complaint- if you start tweaking the prereq lines for t2 ships, PLEASE refund those skill points. I do not want to have several weeks or months of training wasted because a prereq for, say, HAC's is no longer in the tree, but I've already got it trained up. This should only apply to prereqs that are themselves t2 skills, like interceptor>interdictors, and not the core piloting, but it would really REALLY suck to get a change this massive and no compensation for time invested in the old system.

Overhaul Dscan!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#994 - 2012-03-07 04:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Elrinarie wrote:
I have all cruisers to 5, battlecruisers to 5, hacs to 5, and command ships to 5....

If I have to train all separate races to 5 because this won't work out with the amount of skill points this is just plain BS.. just saying


CCP is more concerned that you retain the abilities you had before, not with the raw amount of skill points you have... and seem willing to give you a skill point boost so that you do not lose the ability to fly all the ships you can now. Or perhaps simply give you the necessary skills without boosting your actual skill point amount. That part is still up for debate.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#995 - 2012-03-07 04:17:10 UTC
Vertigo Ren wrote:
I'm liking these changes, though it seems I'm reading them differently from everyone else.

Or at least I can read the part where it says I'll still be able to fly what I already can fly in the new system.

With the dropping of tiers, I understand it as, I'd be able to fly any of the ships at lvl 1 of that skill. So for something like minnie BS, I can fly all three battleships right away. Then each ship has bonuses for different things that stack as I go through the levels.

This makes lots of sense!

This also seems to allow for new ships with various roles, My vote goes for RAMMING. Ramming Battleship!


Congratulations. You're one of the few who seems to have read the blog from start to finish. Its a rare honor to meet you, may I shake your hand?
Elrinarie
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#996 - 2012-03-07 04:17:26 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Elrinarie wrote:
I have all cruisers to 5, battlecruisers to 5, hacs to 5, and command ships to 5....

If I have to train all separate races to 5 because this won't work out with the amount of skill points this is just plain BS.. just saying


CCP is more concerned that you retain the abilities you had before, not with the raw amount of skill points you have... and seem willing to give you a skill point boost so that you do not lose the ability to fly all the ships you can now. Or perhaps simply give you the necessary skills without boosting your actual skill point amount. That part is still up for debate.


being able to fly the ships and being able to fly the ships with max skills like I have now are two completely separate things however. Let's hope that this is the case :|
Danny Husk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#997 - 2012-03-07 04:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny Husk
Chitsa Jason wrote:
I bet people who read this devblog are already training Battlecruiser from 4 to 5 as it will probably guaranteee that they get all racial skills.

Here's a question: What happens to people who never trained BC or destroyer at all, but just trained Frigate -> Cruiser -> BS? Do they magically get Destroyer IV + BC IV in any race where they have already trained BS I? Because they already had BS . . . and we're "not taking away anything you can fly today." It seems unlikely many people would have skipped BC entirely, but this is an even better scam than those who have BC V winding up with BC V x4.

And the same goes for Cruiser IV . . . if we're auto-magically going to get BC V x4, doesn't that mean we also auto-magically have to get Cruiser IV x4 . . . and of course now Destroyer IV x4 . . . Frigate IV x 4 . . .?

I dunno. I'm starting to like this idea. Cause my epic all-races subcap cross-train just shrank to . . . 10d, 7m, 1s.
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#998 - 2012-03-07 04:21:43 UTC
Smoke Adian wrote:
I would suggest dropping the whole roles classification thing. Yes, rebalance the useless ships like the ferox, but the roles thing is just dumb. For example you've got the caracal, drake, and raven in the same category when the only thing they have in common is their caldari origin.

As far as Drakes go, you've got HAM Drakes, MWD Drakes, AB Drakes, Spider tanking drakes, PVE Drakes in various forms and the list goes on and on. You can't just say "oh that's a bombardment ship" especially when the one thing Drakes are not known for is their DPS.

Then you've got the Raven in there which really has nothing to do with drake - it's a pve boat that occasionally gets used for smartbombing.

Finally, the Caracal which has nothing to do with either of the other two. It's a cheap pve starter boat or throw away pvp support for new players

i.e. Just buff the known crappy ships and don't try tp reorganize all of EVE's ships into silly categories.


Passive Drakes, Bait Drakes, Cyno Drakes, Nano Drakes, Drake Creole, Gangboosted Drakes, Anti-frigate Drakes, Drake Gumbo, pan-fried, deep-fried, stir-fried, there's Pineapple Drake, Lemon Drake, Coconut Drake, Pepper Drake, Drake Soup, Drake Stew, Drake Salad, Drake 'n' Potatoes, Drake Burger, Drake Sandwich.............that's, that's about it.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#999 - 2012-03-07 04:21:52 UTC
Elrinarie wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Elrinarie wrote:
I have all cruisers to 5, battlecruisers to 5, hacs to 5, and command ships to 5....

If I have to train all separate races to 5 because this won't work out with the amount of skill points this is just plain BS.. just saying


CCP is more concerned that you retain the abilities you had before, not with the raw amount of skill points you have... and seem willing to give you a skill point boost so that you do not lose the ability to fly all the ships you can now. Or perhaps simply give you the necessary skills without boosting your actual skill point amount. That part is still up for debate.


being able to fly the ships and being able to fly the ships with max skills like I have now are two completely separate things however. Let's hope that this is the case :|


They specifically said (as an example) that if you can fly a BC at level 5 before, you'll be able to fly it at level 5 afterwards.

I think you're good.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#1000 - 2012-03-07 04:22:06 UTC
DAMNIT.