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I would like to officially say that I do NOT want these changes. It is currently complicated...such is eve. I really don't see much problem with the way it is set up now.

The only real stupidity that I would like changed is Jump Freighter/Freighter and Carriers. Seriously....if a person needs to move a pair of fit/rigged ships...they should need to train up drone and fighter skills, and other modules and such to fly a carrier. They should use a simple cargo hauler....for cargo.

Carriers could still take ships...but perhaps put pilots in them. How nice would that be...drop a carrier with a squad of people inside it that can then undock. That would be worth training for...

Odd name for the single biggest benefit CCP has bestowed upon veteran players since the game went gold.

I take it you haven't flown a destroyer lately.

I too hate large boosts to my skill point level.

Get a rope.

CCP Ytterbium,

I do think you deserve credit for what you where trying to do here. You put a lot of effort into explaining your viewpoint and putting out an impressive dev blog.

It came off as a little rushed, but that wasn't really the issue.

As a suggestion, move more in the direction of a "Request for Comments" as opposed to "This is generally what's coming down the pike, even if we've not worked out all the little details" tone. (Even if it's a lie. It'll be better received and gives you room to backtrack later.) And lead with the good news... tiercide in this case.

On the bright side, you got a crap-ton of feedback in record time.



Seems wise. I understand that CCP may want to get stuff out quick and its a pain to run things by the CSM first, but an outsiders view could help A LOT. When you are all invested and living an issue, its easy to loose touch with how it will be perceived by some one looking at it with fresh eyes. I admit to falling prey to that on occasion myself.



Agreed fully on that last paragraph.

I do see some foreshadowing of what this blog is presenting in the CSM Minutes. Was the racial split for Destroyer/Battlecruiser discussed with CSM prior? Can it be discussed now what the CSM's reaction to that was?

Anyway, I do hope the racial split on these skills is reconsidered. I don't think the (questionable?) benefits are worth the disruption.

I do love the tiercide idea, particularly if its done by small buffs to the currently useless ships. Still not a fan of nerfing or "refocusing" currently working ships. (Although some tweaks might work, like moving one hull bonus to cruiser makes sense to me on BCs.)

Dropping most requirements from 5 to 4 also makes a fair amount of sense. Particularly in the Coveter's case. Not quite as sure about the BS 5 -> 4 for Capitals though, sounds like there is pros and cons to that one.

Just the idea that you are working on ship balance is worth applauding, although as its a hugely tricky thing it needs a lot of testing and feedback. Do please rely on the CSM for the first response and the community to fine tune.

I hope this spergfest of a response to your blog is in the end encouraging, you are working on something that people care a lot about. Just keep poasting! We can work this out together.

By the way, if you can currently fly cruisers, you won't have to worry about it to begin with.

This is a huge benefit for veteran players. And depending on how they work the skill changeover, it could be an even bigger hidden buff. -- if they just give us a reimbursement of SP to let us train all 4 (for example) battlecruiser skills to 5, I could instead apply those SP to something non-spaceship command related (since my attributes are tweaked to make that stuff train fastest right now) and then retrain the the BC skills myself. I haven't done the math, but it my head it feels like that would work. As much as I love that scenario, I have to say, in the interests of keeping things fair that they should just give us the racial skills at whatever level we had the other skill at instead of straight SP.

But regardless of potential hidden buffs to vets, I'm thankful they came out and explicitly stated that I'll still be able to fly the same ships post patch day with just as much skill as before.

HOWEVER comma

My present (and any future) alts, not to mention new players, can really only see this as a nerf I think. Sure, everything will be quite a bit more intuitive now, and I'm all for that, but it'll also take those newer characters 4 times as long to crosstrain to the extent that I have. My friends already complain about the huge gap in SP from their new characters to my ancient ones, and this won't help matters. When all is said and done I don't think it'll be the straw that broke the camel's back, or anything, but it won't give me any extra ammunition for getting them to jump on board.

On another note - did they say this was only applying to the T1 versions and not to the T2 versions? (Inty, Logi, Black Ops, etc)

Stop your whining about skill training ffs - it's just a few extra days/weeks and once it's done you never have to train it again :D

I really think the EvE ship hierarchy could do with a big shakeup and this sounds great. There are just too many hulls currently underused because they have nothing special to offer. Each ship should be different - personally, I'd prefer it if they were unique.

I'm also in favour of making stuff take longer to train. At the moment people skip flying entire ship classes because in a few days they can leapfrog them and jump into a bigger ship. Bigger ISNT better but you only realise that after you've trained madly to get into a BS and then realise it's just another ship and no more fun than a cruiser or BC.

CCP should decide how it wants people to train/fly ships and organise the hierarchy accordingly. I've always felt specialisation should be essential early on and then once you can fly T2 in your chosen class you can start to diversify.

Also, currently it's so easy to cross-train races that whichever race is currently FOTM (e.g Winmatar for as long as I can remember) ends up being trained by the majority of new pilots - whatever their own race. I never really understood why Destroyer and BC skills were cross-race while Frigate, Cruiser and BS skills are race specific so bringing them all together consistently sounds sensible.

Even if it meant having to train some skills again (it wont - I'm pretty sure CCP won't implement the changes that way as they haven't done so in the past) I'd be happy to if I felt the changes would result in a more logically consistent hierarchy in which EVERY ship has a USEFUL role to play.

Please don't forget to take a look at those ships which are currently one step away from only being good for reprocessing.

E.g. Prophecy, Cyclone, Eagle, Hyena, Rook

to name a few...

Why are people so afraid of a little change? Especially when it's going to impact SPACESHIPS rather than CQ.

Sheesh - What a bunch of moody grumpy whiners some of you are!

It was a joke. It could be Incarnagate Pt 2

I must admit once I read the blog I was thinking that if I have to retrain 3 out of the 4 again I would be seriously miffed.



While I can see that having BS to IV for capitals would fit in with the other classes to get to the next size but this would mean that you will be able to get into a carrier, dread or supercarrier way too soon and easy. Consistency is good in general but this is a really stupid idea. Capital proliferation is already bad enough this will just make it worse (yes I know I am in a very super cap heavy alliance, but its still true).

If this does happen can we petition to get our BS V skill that we have trained refunded to us?! Cos I would quite like to put that training time into something else then. And at the same time change the requirements for supercarriers from III to V.