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I'm not so sure I like this idea. In theory it sounds great, simplify the training route, make this a clear progression, etc. Then theory comes crashing headlong into reality. Others have said it. they live in wormholes and -need- to be able to fly every version of battlecruiser, that's what they've been relying on for years. Or people like me who may not need it, but I've stocked up on several different T1 and T2 destroyer and BC hulls, what do I do with those?

You respond with "if you can fly it before, you'll be able to fly it afterwards" Ok, that's a reasonable response that'll keep players happy. However, as others have said, you're going to have to reimburse a LOT of skillpoints for a LOT of people. If you're fine with this ok.

What about people that have OVER trained for stuff? Gallente Battleship 5 is absolutely worthless (what else am I going to fly? Kronos? Sin? lol) EXCEPT that it opens the door to Thanatos, Moros, Nyx, etc. Do I get my BS 5 skillpoints back since I don't need to train it that high anymore?

There's a ton of other issues players have brought up these last few pages, most of which tie into one of the above. It just seems like a huge can of worms to open. I'm sure the game designers have their own view on whats working and what's broken, but I don't think I've ever seen the players complain about the ship skill training path. If it ain't broke (from the players perspective), don't fix it, right?

Again, it sounds good in theory. If it's that important to the game play that this be done, fine. Just be aware that if you don't refund a metric crapton of skill points, there's going to be backlash from one group. If you do refund all that SP, there's going to be backlash from another group. This is one of those issues where I don't think you'll be able to make everyone happy. I'd recommend treading lightly, doing a lot of CSM discussion, and keeping the players informed early and often so there's no surprises.

PS. If you do it, let me know soon so I can start training BC to 5 and thus get all of the command ships reimbursed to me when this rolls out.

As for the ships category. I never really had a problem with the tier system, but I guess if this allows you to do the much needed balancing, then run with it. I don't think this will cause nearly as many problems as the skill thing.

Also, who put the Ferox in the "combat ships" category :P

Cross training vs Specialisation argument,

Cross training is encouraged by racial similarities such as armour and shield tanking as well, missles on the t2 amarr boats, hybrids on caldari, BC skill isn't the only thing encouraging cross training.

looking forward to seeing what the final plan is going to be

Wow, a lot of people skip over pertinent details in their haste to post.

Bitter Vets, in effect you will likely end up being given free skills that newer players will have to manually train up when they get to that point.

This also means that most ships will be buffed and generally made useful in ways that make sense as to how they are used... especially the myriad of useless ships that now clutters the tier system.

Get a grip.

After the third time it was stated that ships we can fly now, we'll be able to fly after, let's just say i was starting to get the idea. I can only assume that most of the people screaming and yelling about how things are unfair that they will not be able to fly ships they can currently fly after this reorganization are trolling. Although now that i think about it, there is no need to attribute intelligence where stupidity could very well be the more likely reason.

It would be nice to have some of the "useless" ships have a bit of a resurgence in popularity. Balance ships, and scrap things that don't make sense (target painting for minmatar).

Do what you will, just don't screw it up CCP!

I can fly any Amarr / Caldari / Minmatar command ship at lvl V (meaning battlecruiser V also) - as long as I still can after this update it's all good.

You're reading more into that than you need to, the latter image says nothing about skill requirements. It's alluding to a thematic structure for ships, nothing more, nothing less.

Someone who flies destroyers and interceptors might logically want to fly an interdictor, that is all.

The more I think about this the more I dislike this. Leaving the shafting of cross trainers aside for the moment, I think you went with the idea mainly because it's easy for you. The one thing EVE isn't suffering from is too short skill training times. The exact opposite is the norm from a new players perspective and now you're adding more pointless skill barriers for them before they can access more ships. Why not **** off old players and try to repell new players from getting in to the game at the same time? How could this possibly go wrong? Bad for vets, bad for new players, uniform design and easy for CCP.

FFS I had destroyers trained to lvl 1 until a months ago and I skipped battlecruisers entirely for months when I started, because they couldn't handle the PvE content I aimed to do then, so training them was a giant waste of time. I still hit the skill barriers with my battleship and it was frustrating. Now you're telling me you want everyone to train a specialty ship like a destroyer to lvl 4 before even gaining access to cruisers and you made BCs mandatory before battleships can be accessed. Why would you do that? Why do you force people to train all these ship classes to a high skill level, that can be totally useless to anyone with clear goal in mind.

Why is lvl 4 in these skills required to proceed to the next level? Why do the requirements have to be uniform? Wouldn't it be better to have lvl 3 requirement with basic ship classes, since they really are mandatory to get the most out of the game, but not every step on that ladder is useful to every player. At lvl3 you would have access to a decent selection of ships and force people to learn by flying smaller cheaper ships. Keeping them sitting in those ships they're not interested in flying long term, just so you can have your uniform skill requirements, isn't worth it and isn't a good idea in the first place. Uniformity is good, but it should take backseat to pretty muh every other consideration.

I know the plan is not final and you're looking at the options and feedback, but at this time I can't see the good your ship requirement changes brings to any of the players. It seems chosen because it helps you and is uniform, while only having negatives for most of the players.

EDIT: And no I haven't read the thread, so if the issues have already been addressed, then great.

With the BC and Destroyer predicament i think it should be a simple solution

IF you have lets say......

Gallante Cruiser 4
Minmatar Cruiser 4
and BC 5

Then when the changes come out you have

Gallante Cruiser 4
Minmatar Cruiser 4
Gallante BC 5
Minmatar BC 5

Therefore there will be no need to reimburse and people will be able to fly what they flew in the past without any changes.

I have a dual-repper hype and a sentry domi that say Gallente BS V does things. I'm told people fly Vindicators, Rattlesnakes and even Megathrons sometimes.

Even when hybrids were balls, the T1 and faction Gallente battleships had their uses. It's not always about the unlocks.