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Not empty quoting.

Frankly, I am dissapointed with this, CCP. Thankfully this is not the final thing and there is time to change it. And I really hope you'll reconsider this change.

Although the idea of balancing ships around their roles not the tiers is better, yet it is a wholly different can of worms to open.

You really should have said that in the blog. In bold. Possibly in big letters.

Because honestly, it takes no seconds at all between reading "removing generic skills and replacing with 4 racials" and people realising that doesn't add up.


(as to the 'time to battleship' argument: battleships are easy to sit in, but the support skills take a bit longer. Those HML Ravens don't come from nowhere, y'know).

Also, removing tiers is unmitigated winsauce.

Interesting changes hope you will nof **** up this one.

Easiest way to fix the training issues. People are mad because they have to do extra training. The way of compensating for this is reducing the training time for each tree. The people who are complaining are cross trained into multiple things. That's why, below, you will see how this can be remedied fairly easily:

1. Make frigate skills 1x mutiplier instead of 2x

2. reimburse extra.

3. Leave destroyers at 2x.

4. Make Cruisers 3x. Reimburse.

5. Make Battlecruisers 5x. Reimburse.

lets see how much this saves.

Say you have all 4 races all to lvl5.

Frigates = 256000*4 reimbursed.

Cruisers = 256000*8 reimbursed

Battlecruisers = 256000 reimbursed.

= 256000*13 reimbursed.

Assuming you already have the battlecruisers skill to lvl 5, you get all the points left over after subtracting 256000 for change reimbursement. That's enough to get one BC skill back to lvl 5 already.

Lets see how much you need to have everything to level 5 with this change.

Destroyers all lvl 5 would need an extra 512000*3

Battlecruisers all lvl 5 would need an extra 1280000*3

3840000+1536000=5376000 = 21*256000

Now assuming most people don't need every single destroyer skill to level 5 (seriously...who uses caldari destroyers?), this value would be a fair bit lower. So, you end up with enough skill points to get 2 BC skills to level 5 after a single set of BC points (assuming you train destroyers to 4 first, not 5). You thus can instantly train 3 BC skills to max(including the one you were initially reimbursed for), when originally you only had 1 BC skill maxed with a 6x mutiplier, and 1 Destroyer skill maxed that had a 2x mutiplier.

People are angry about the proposed changes because it would nerf their ability to get in command ships (or perhaps interdictors). Well, to fly command ships you need to have cruiser 5 for that race anyways, so they will undoubtedly be affected by the reimbursement (512000sp per cruiser skill you have at 5) due to changing cruiser and frigate training times. Same thing with destroyer skills. If you are specialized into 2 races, and can fly 2 command ships, this means you have 2 cruiser skills at 5. Therefore, you will be reimbursed 512000sp*2 right away, along with a bit for frigates as well. This should be enough to cover training the BC skill for that race back up to L5. Reasonable?

Okay how about people who just want to fly the race's BC at level 5 skills? You only have cruisers to 4, and frigates to 4. Once again, if you are spec'd into two races, that means you will have some skill points left over from training both to 4 from reimbursement. This return should give you enough to cover at least a few days of training for that second BC skill once again (not to mention the destroyer skill). This would easily get both to level 4, however BC 5 in that race would not be initially achievable. This is understandable. You can't just spec into a race for lvl 5 skills instantly, so if you DID have that race fully spec'd you would have all the reimbursed points you need to lvl5 everything again. However, if only the destroyers and BC skills were at level 5, you won't be able to get them back to level 5 instantly, because you aren't truly spec'd into that race. It's pretty fair if you ask me.

I think that's a reasonable method of reimbursement, and a reasonable change to skill speed. Since you HAVE to go through destroyers and HAVE to go through battlecruisers to get to battleships now, its only reasonable to reduce training times to compensate. It isnt reasonable to reduce capital ship requirements and say this makes training more reasonable. 90% of eve players dont fly capitals, we don't want easier time training into them, we want an easier time training through subcaps.

There might need to be a little bit more though. Maybe just giving all the destroyer skills and battlecruiser skills at 5 would work out after all.

EDIT: soundwave said nah, we are just gonna give all lvl5. Fair enough.

Awesome changes, Tiericide is something we have all wanted for years. Looking forward to seeing how it all goes!

As for the SP issue, its going to be a powder keg. People though need to stop posting shite about it until they here the final plans for how its going to happen tbfh

are people going to be happy training through a racial destroyer to 4 when there is only a single tech 1 ship per race?

how long before you add more destroyers?

OMG, massive shop rebalancing.
Im all in favor of that, maybe we will finally see people use all those underused ships that are in the game (auguror anyone? ;) )

What I see here:

It will make it a longer train time to get in to the T1 ships that are more useful to noobs, But shorten the time to get in to a T2 ship.

CCP do you remember the learning curve graph you revised because you were working on the new player experience. Well you need to add the cliff back in now that you adding more skills for someone to train upfront.

Guys, tier removal is good, skill reimbursement is to be discussed, stop bloody whining and read the WHOLE devblog, mull it over, think about the positives, and if you think an issue hasn't been addressed (hint, it has), post here.