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Aeril Malkyre

Knights of the Ouroboros

Likes received: 434

#161 - 2012-03-06 18:52:16 UTC

This will be an incredible change if it falls together correctly. It will fundamentally alter pretty much everything about flying in the game, and that is a huge risk that I'm glad the Devs are willing to take. A more logical ship progression is badly needed, and I'm stoked about the possibility of old ship types getting new uses, and limiting out the roles of various hulls so that their contemporaries get a chance to do their job.

Completely understand all the rage about crosstraining, but I think they've got the point. Save your tears for when they come up with an actual solution for the reimbursement, judge it then.

This change opens up a lot of doors for the game, and the possibility of new ships (!!!!!!!!), which I think we can all agree is a Good Thing™.

Skippermonkey

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,863

#162 - 2012-03-06 18:52:23 UTC

The amount of rage in this thread is equally proportional to those that havent read all the posts before theirs

The simplest way of handling this would be to refund FOUR times the SP removed from a pilot to instantly pay for the 4 new racial variants of destroyers and Battlecruisers.

I know this would be my prefered choice as i fly all 4 racial variants

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Novafox Shipyards 4,639
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards Likes received: 4,639	#163 - 2012-03-06 18:52:25 UTC 1 About time, honestly one of those things that should have been done AGES ago. And just when I thought I got all the sub caps trained up to max. Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

cBOLTSON

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 165

#164 - 2012-03-06 18:52:45 UTC

I have to say im happy that you are looking into this. I even think the ideas you propose are fine.
HOWEVER!

For those of us who have trained dessy 5 and Battlecruiser 5 - if you do make skills for each race you MUST give us all racial skills to 5.
We have trained that and its not our fault you are changing skills.

If someone had dessy 3 and bc 4 for instance give them that level of skill for each race. Its not perfect I know but there is no way in hell im training bc 5 again for every race. Training it once for commandships was **** enough.

You want to **** people off and lose players then go ahead. Otherwise give us the same skill level in each racial ship should you go ahead with this plan.

A little bit of isk and skillpoint reimbursement is NOT enough.

Just warning you now as I know there is heated disscussion on this topic.

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......

Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 21
AdamiaMaxima Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation Likes received: 21	#165 - 2012-03-06 18:52:59 UTC Yeah, okay.... NO -Adamia You cant outrun death forever, but you sure can make the people trying to kill you work for it.

Mallikanth

Wasters

Likes received: 92

#166 - 2012-03-06 18:53:18 UTC

I like the ideas.
I like the plan.
I like that no-one will end up with ships they can no longer fly.
I like that you're asking the players (and the CSM?) and taking on board what people say.

Oh, yes. And I like it Cool

even though the transition is going to be difficult (To engineer for the Devs and to experience by the players).

Believe in what they do, not what they say.

Ministry of Furious Retribution Fraternity. 522
Heimdallofasgard Ministry of Furious Retribution Fraternity. Likes received: 522	#167 - 2012-03-06 18:53:27 UTC 4 Evanga wrote: ok .... first, you made me log on to this stinking ****** forums... second, what the freaky deaky feck is wrong with you guys. "Nothing is written in stone yet..." UP YOURS! I guess you will push it through anywayz. -2 paying accounts. The Rage is strong with this one...

Seismic Stan

Freebooted Junkworks

Likes received: 530

#168 - 2012-03-06 18:53:39 UTC | Edited by: Seismic Stan

I came to complain about something as I understand that's what we're meant to do on these forums. ;) However, as I can't quite get my head around the implications of these changes I'll have to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Seriously though, it sounds exciting and I'm loving those ship flow charts. However, if you're removing tiers, what do the numbers within each size class at the top represent?

EVE Online: The Text Adventure --- GameSkinny Correspondent --- Freebooted Blogger

Mehashi 'Kho

New Eden Motion Pictures

Likes received: 163

#169 - 2012-03-06 18:54:19 UTC

This is terrible.

This will really mess with the new player progression. You are going to make it more prohibitive for a developing player to try out different ship styles and force more time intensive specialisation, something that as a younger player this game has way too much of already, to a point that it puts some people off trying new ships or parts of the game. And putting people into caps even quicker?

Madness. Horrible idea. Couldn''t be more opposed to this.

Heimdallofasgard

Ministry of Furious Retribution

Fraternity.

Likes received: 522

#170 - 2012-03-06 18:54:45 UTC

cBOLTSON wrote:

I'm inclined to agree with this dude, in a slightly softer tone though.

Serge Bastana

GWA Corp

Likes received: 647

#171 - 2012-03-06 18:54:51 UTC

Orion GUardian wrote:

I can understand where you come from, trying to get Destroyers and Battlecruisers to racial Variants.

BUT: I always thought them not to be "stepping stones" but intermediate classes. Which made totally sense having the skills not racial.

i.e "You know how to fly X Races Cruisers well, the Batlecruisers rely on the same technology and modules but you need to learn how to control larger ships thats why you need Battlecruiser skill as well"

I think it is not at all necessary to make the Battlecruiser skill racial! Having to Train BCs to IV until one can get into a BS or Destroyers to IV till you can get into a Cruiser will slow down alot of newbies trying to get into useful roles above "Tackler" in any fleet.

Blackbird for example was an easy to train for ship, it will be prolonged for about a week now (doesn't sound much, but if you are a newbie that is quite some time!) Especially as it stands today that Destroyers are very rarely used and considered "useless" by alot of people.

Please think it over, I do NOT think the skill line should be changed.

IF you disaggree and really want to change that, I am strongly for a Reimbursement Plan that will not make Crosstrainers like me train 3 additional Rank 6 Skills to V (2-3 Months?) to be able to fly all the ships again that I can now ;) I go with Liang here: If you have BC X give them Racial BC X*4 as reimbursement!

Unless you want to macke the Racial BC/Racial Destroyer skills all Rank 1 so the SP are enough to get them to the past level.

The destroyers are seen as a stepping stone, they're just a heavier frigate to most people. Before the buff they were pretty much useless other than salvage boats. Even after the buff I'm not sure people will bother training all four racial skills for destroyers, same with BC.

Like another poster said, I can see the idea behind wanting to turn these skills into racials but for those of us with BC to 5 it could be a bitter pill to swallow.

Is this a stealthy Drake nerf perhaps?

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Incendiary Industries 8
Learath Incendiary Industries Likes received: 8	#172 - 2012-03-06 18:54:52 UTC 5 Huge huge huge change. Overall good, I hope it happens, after TONS of testing.

Lucas Kyu

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 1

#173 - 2012-03-06 18:55:29 UTC

Removing tiers is a very good and welcome idea. Making useless ships useful again, what's not to like.

The line of bombardment ships seems the short end of the stick though.
You might have noticed how useful the Raven is in PVP right now.

But, retroactive skill requirement changes is ******** and UNFAIR. Seriously, don't do that racial bc skill thing. The only reason you've given for that is that it looks better on a spreadsheet. It's not broken as it is now. Keep things fair.

Heimdallofasgard

Ministry of Furious Retribution

Fraternity.

Likes received: 522

#174 - 2012-03-06 18:56:12 UTC | Edited by: Heimdallofasgard

Thoughts:

Like they said in the dev blog... it's open for discussion

To be honest I don't think capitals should be made easier to train for, but I DO like that they're opening up this kind of dialogue, it will make things very interesting.

There's way too many under utilised ships in game, this will shake things up and make things interesting, they're also letting us know well in advance of what they're planning so discussions can be had and we can say what we do and do not like about it.

Bad Points: Racial BC + Dessy skills.

Good Points: Reclassification of ships + Effort to try and make redundant ships useful again.

Edit: CCP you might want to fix the images in that blog btw, they've been resized but not compressed so they're taking AGES to render and scrolling from top to bottom just took me about a minute (on Chrome at least)

Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1,327
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,327	#175 - 2012-03-06 18:56:14 UTC 1 WTS Visio lessons to Ytterbium, 1x PLEX per hour! I'm glad you guys are looking at tiers :) The skills changes look interesting for a discussion starter

Isaac Apylon

Signal Cartel

EvE-Scout Enclave

Likes received: 3

#176 - 2012-03-06 18:56:49 UTC

Well, the Tier system disappearing is great, although I'm not sure a role system is quite the best way to go about it. I'm going to have to think about that one. Regardless, I am really looking forward to flying some of the currently 'useless' ships on a regular basis. Some of my favorite hulls are lower tier (and therefore terrible) ships.

The skill system change, though, while logical, is a serious pain in the ass. I trained BC 5 to be able to use ALL the BCs, along with all the required weapon and tank skills. All of that sp is going to be nearly useless for a few months while I retrain all the new BC skills. And God help wormhole residents, you all are just screwed.

Jackie Cross

MacGyver Communications

Minerva Exalt Holdings

Likes received: 19

#177 - 2012-03-06 18:56:56 UTC

Heimdallofasgard wrote:

Evanga wrote:

ok ....

first, you made me log on to this stinking ****** forums...
second, what the freaky deaky feck is wrong with you guys.

"Nothing is written in stone yet..."
UP YOURS!

I guess you will push it through anywayz.

-2 paying accounts.

The Rage is strong with this one...

I'm surprised it took that long into the thread before the first "I'm unsubbing /whine" popped up.

Mister Alt

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1

#178 - 2012-03-06 18:57:17 UTC

So the naysayers were right, CCP panics about bending us over ala Incarnia and we get Crucible

Then we shut up and keep paying, they decide to bend us over again. 2/3 of that blog is pure unadulterated bullshit.

I'm all for cruisers and tier 1 BCs becoming actual viable choices instead of "this will get me a fight cos people will laugh at me" but seriously... Leave the crack pipe alone.

The Divine Machine 4
Botrias Pirabus The Divine Machine Likes received: 4	#179 - 2012-03-06 18:57:40 UTC 4 Read the thread, and love it. Go to it, CCP!