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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

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Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#21 - 2012-03-06 18:06:46 UTC
Those are some HUGE-ASS images, and trust me, I know huge ass.

Please support: export of settings in editable format

Your stuff goes here.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2012-03-06 18:06:50 UTC
My gut reaction is that adding even more skilltime to the queue for new players to get into a BS is not something you want. In fact I'd rather getting INTO ships was a quicker affair than today, but actually getting to the point where you get the best out of them took longer.
Kozmic
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-03-06 18:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kozmic
For those of us with all racial sub-caps, that is a lot of re-training. SP reimbursment should take that into account - if I had BC V and have race X BS V, then I should get race X BC V.

Edit: also, :ccp:
LegendaryFrog
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-03-06 18:07:27 UTC
I am really glad to see this level of ambition being directed at ship balancing. It was always going to be reliant on some significant changes in order to properly align all the existing ships into a role-based system that ensures each one is desirable to fly under a certain circumstance.

Sure the prospect of having to train new skills just to get into ships I can already fly perfectly with all 5's is not optimal, but if you handle that properly the benefits to the game will far outweigh those concerns.
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#25 - 2012-03-06 18:07:37 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
...We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.



Understatement of the day.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#26 - 2012-03-06 18:08:50 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



I understand the sentiment of wanting to streamline the skill trees, but if you're going to remove the generic Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills, for those of us who have trained both of them to 5, if we don't get *all four* of the racial skills reimbursed all the way to 5, you are going to have a very, very large and angry mob on your hands.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
BugraT WarheaD
#27 - 2012-03-06 18:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: BugraT WarheaD
Great blog ! Hope we will have more informations while your brainstorming evolved to gameplay and real modification :)

Btw .. .re-training skills isn't really a problem if ships have more value ;).
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-03-06 18:09:45 UTC
Just want to echo the concern at potentially having to spend a long time training in order to fly ships that I currently own and use with the same level of proficiency that I currently enjoy. I don't see how the new BC and destroyer skills could reasonably be reimbursed other than by giving everyone who currently has BC V all of the racial battlecruiser skills at V, for instance.
Alara IonStorm
#29 - 2012-03-06 18:09:54 UTC
Are Cruisers and Frigates going to be buffed in Inferno as the CSM Minutes indicated.

I really like a lot of the changes you are planing to make.
Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
#30 - 2012-03-06 18:09:54 UTC
I think lowering the rank of the new Racial Battlecruiser skill compared to the old Battlecruiser skill would alleviate some of the problems people who use multiple command ships would have. That or instead of a reimbursement, grant Racial Battlecruiser skills equal to the previous BC skill for Race that Cruiser V is trained for.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#31 - 2012-03-06 18:10:01 UTC
With changes this fundamental (every other skill stems from what you want to fly), simply refunding for the ship skills is completely unacceptable. The minimum we deserve to be given is a complete respec (refund all SP and return the skillbooks to the redeeming system) to requalify ourselves for what we are interested in using.

People like me with 2004 characters wouldn't be hurt so badly, I can stick to one race if I have to. I can switch to drones or missiles or any turret or armor rep or shield rep. Players less than three years old won't be so fortunate and by forcing them to stick to one race, they'll generally be screwed-over with the kind of skilltraining new users are prone to. After all, no one starts playing EVE knowing everything any person needs to know to survive.

I hereby demand on behalf of all players that the only appropriate result of this kind of change is the chance to start over.
Jackie Cross
MacGyver Communications
Minerva Exalt Holdings
#32 - 2012-03-06 18:11:41 UTC
I like this change, strange enough. As long as you balance the training times. It shouldn't be faster to get into t3 than t2. But I don't feel that t2 should get a lot shorter training time.

"It hurts soooo good."
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#33 - 2012-03-06 18:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Shandir
I am uncomfortable with the idea, but you may have to translate existing Des/BC X to all 4 races, and not to a single chosen race.
It's the only way to avoid people needing to retrain for existing ships.

Also, LOL at the people demanding a full SP reset. Keep trying guys!
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#34 - 2012-03-06 18:11:48 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


It goes far beyond simply unappealing. It is simply not practical. We've got dozens of battlecruisers in the wormhole we live in and potentially nobody would even be able to fly them for months. The best solution is not to reimburse BC/Destroyer SP but to give everyone the racial skills at the level they have them trained when the books are seeded.

-Liang


easily solvable with a grace period during which the old skill will work and which give you time to train the new ones to level 4, after which the original skill is terminated and SP reimbursed to be used wherever you want
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#35 - 2012-03-06 18:12:12 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



it not just not appealing its crazy.

pre patch i can fly all cs's and all dic's. post patch im ******. i either pick to fly a claymore or damnation or a vulture (eos is **** anyhow) and then im screwed for the next 80 odd days retraining for ships i could already fly.

you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races, or you just give people all 4 races.


OMG when can i get a pic here
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-03-06 18:12:19 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



Is it possible to instead of refunding the SP, just give the skills instead? Because if you can do so, here is what I would do:


  • If a player has Racial Frigate III and Destroyers X - give player Recial Destroyer X for every race they have Racial Frigate III in
  • Ditto for Battlecruisers


This would really only work if you could actually give us the skills directly. Refunding would result in players having more skill points than they originally spent training the skill to spend on other things. Restricting it to the Battlecruiser and Destroyer skills would mean that they keep the level they were at across all races, but aren't able to spend all of the extra skill points elsewhere.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
#37 - 2012-03-06 18:12:44 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
With changes this fundamental (every other skill stems from what you want to fly), simply refunding for the ship skills is completely unacceptable. The minimum we deserve to be given is a complete respec (refund all SP and return the skillbooks to the redeeming system) to requalify ourselves for what we are interested in using.

People like me with 2004 characters wouldn't be hurt so badly, I can stick to one race if I have to. I can switch to drones or missiles or any turret or armor rep or shield rep. Players less than three years old won't be so fortunate and by forcing them to stick to one race, they'll generally be screwed-over with the kind of skilltraining new users are prone to. After all, no one starts playing EVE knowing everything any person needs to know to survive.

I hereby demand on behalf of all players that the only appropriate result of this kind of change is the chance to start over.


QQ Moar, can I haz your stuff?

And a "It's for the new players" argument will inevitably be better for older players. I'm guessing you want to get rid of some skills you don't use much, huh?
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-03-06 18:13:11 UTC
Should also add that I'm a bit sceptical about the idea of rebalancing ships to fit specific roles - while it sounds intriguing, I think it could also lead to excessive pigeonholing. Restricting the scope for coming up with new ways to fit and use ships outside of their 'intended' role would be bad for the game.
Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#39 - 2012-03-06 18:13:17 UTC
Maybe start with the turret skills?

Doesn't make much sense to be forced to train SPECIALIZATIONS for smaller turrets if what you want is LARGE TURRET SPEC, and you already have the relevant LARGE TURRET skill ;)

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Got Item?
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#40 - 2012-03-06 18:13:23 UTC
Eugh.... Just what we always wanted... having to spend even *MORE* time cross-training to experience the different races and play styles of EvE.

Battlecruisers is one of the best skills there is for a very good reason; you spend a month training it and then it gives you lots of flexibility. You get it, and it opens lots of doors... and variety is what people enjoy.

If you do this, then a lot of people, myself included, are going to be pissed. It's introducing more drag just for the hell of it.