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New dev blog: What's in a name

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#481 - 2012-03-02 16:50:44 UTC
ORCACommander wrote:
each missile should have its own name as a standard trauma missile is not the same as a torpedo trauma missile so why would it essentially have the same model name.


They're not model names. Unless you think that everyone in New Eden pays someone royalties, every time they make a kinetic damage heavy missile.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Szilardis
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#482 - 2012-03-02 17:19:27 UTC
Jace Errata wrote:
Szilardis wrote:
Jace Errata wrote:
Phobos Vortex wrote:
And for EM damage i had to google the word "Mjolnir" to determine what type of crispbread it is. Please consider to change it to something more sci-fi.


Sci-fi

Also curious as to why you had to Google "Mjolnir". It's pretty famous. There's even a recent (also famous) movie involving it, with another upcoming.


Which in turn takes its name from Mjölnir, the hammer of Thor the Thundergod of Norse mythology. Seems relevant to me.

Yeah, I know. I was just pointing out that there's already a sci-fi meaning for the word. (There hasn't been a Halo movie yet...)

Wrong againP
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#483 - 2012-03-02 17:20:52 UTC
Changing the hardener names, quite nice... not sure about the *direct* move to resistance but not having two different resistances covered by modules with quite similar names.... brilliant!

Launchers... Meh. Siege probably should have been renamed to Torpedo back when you could no longer put anything but torps in them, but I agree with the "WTF AML" crowd... whatever ends up being the difference between "light missile launchers" and "bigger light missile launchers" please at least make it a "launcher".

Everything being called "experimental" or "prototype" or "limited" or whatever... NO NO NO NO NO. Standardized adjectives are good, as long as they don't entirely replace the existing varient names (so a Malkuth Rocket Launcher should be a "Meta 1 Adjective" 'Malkuth' Rocket Launcher, or "Meta 1 Adjective" Rocket Launcher - Malkuth Pattern). Please *DO NOT* do what was done to afterburners and replace the flavor with clarity. ADD clarity to the flavor. Second issue... Stop making early development versions that probably will blow up in your face ("Prototype") be the best version out there. Upgraded and Limited are fine, Experimental and Prototype need to be relegated to being flavor for stuff like "experimental cloaking device" where it's meant to be the crappy blows-up-in-your-face version.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#484 - 2012-03-02 17:43:21 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Oh no another stupid standarized name ideas. Because dump pilots we loss the sci-fi feeling for the game.
It's time to change the ships to MK1/MK2/MK3/MK4 because some pilot not have brain and cant do thinking.

Sorry, I don't buy into the "It was hard for me when I was a lad, so it should be hard for you now" argument. This was the same argument that was trotted out when the Skill Queue was introduced, and when Learning Skills were nuked.

Complexity can be good, but needless complexity is anathema. And being forced to memorize a bunch of arbitrary meta-level word encodings is needless complexity.

Each time you defend wide scale name changes you will lose more CSM votes than gain them. Bad politics.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#485 - 2012-03-02 18:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Who need memorize ??? Everyone need two click to see any item Variations and anyone can see the item names.
This is too hard for them ? But they need more simplified solutions.

The very fact that you think you have to do that -- click to figure out something that should be intuitive -- illustrates exactly the point I was trying to make.

The essence of great UI design is providing interfaces where you don't have to click, you don't have to think, you don't have to remember, you just know.

I would be perfectly happy with a naming system where there were a dozen prefixes for meta-1 items, all starting with the letter "a" - advanced, augmented, accelerated, assisted, abetted, etc. Because I could still see at a glance, without thinking, without remembering, that it was meta-1.



Morning. Just for dumbs. Need meta icons and problem resolved.

http://iaro.3dmax.hu/images/2012/03/02/variations.jpg

Too hard for you to click variations tab ? New players would be read the names ? Old players need to learn new names ?
Steijn
Quay Industries
#486 - 2012-03-02 19:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Steijn
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
And being forced to memorize a bunch of arbitrary meta-level word encodings is needless complexity.


then stick a coloured tag in the corner of each icon and keep everybody happy.

Your happy because it removes the 'complexity'.

We're happy because it does not remove the names, not because of simply removing/changing the actual 'name', but because the non-diverse and generic BS is kept out of the game.
ORCACommander
Obsidian Firelance Technologies
#487 - 2012-03-02 19:22:04 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
ORCACommander wrote:
each missile should have its own name as a standard trauma missile is not the same as a torpedo trauma missile so why would it essentially have the same model name.


They're not model names. Unless you think that everyone in New Eden pays someone royalties, every time they make a kinetic damage heavy missile.

gota justify those manufacturing fees somehow. but you have to agree it does not make sense to call something the same as something else that is not the same except for 1 atribute
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#488 - 2012-03-02 21:02:20 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Each time you defend wide scale name changes you will lose more CSM votes than gain them. Bad politics.

I have a track-record of saying what I think without worrying to much about the effect they might have on my re-election chances.

Hopefully, this appeals to people who would prefer to support a candidate who says what he thinks, rather than what he thinks the voters want to hear.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#489 - 2012-03-02 21:10:49 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Each time you defend wide scale name changes you will lose more CSM votes than gain them. Bad politics.

I have a track-record of saying what I think without worrying to much about the effect they might have on my re-election chances.

Hopefully, this appeals to people who would prefer to support a candidate who says what he thinks, rather than what he thinks the voters want to hear.

Yea you will get re-elected... you're very active in forums and keep people updated. That is the main reason why one of my accounts has usually thrown you a vote even we don't always agree about everything :)

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#490 - 2012-03-02 21:45:18 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Each time you defend wide scale name changes you will lose more CSM votes than gain them. Bad politics.

I have a track-record of saying what I think without worrying to much about the effect they might have on my re-election chances.

Hopefully, this appeals to people who would prefer to support a candidate who says what he thinks, rather than what he thinks the voters want to hear.

Yea you will get re-elected...


Or not, but this is an another story. :)
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#491 - 2012-03-02 22:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Yea you will get re-elected... you're very active in forums and keep people updated. That is the main reason why one of my accounts has usually thrown you a vote even we don't always agree about everything :)

Good. I want people to disagree with me -- having people continually tell me I'm correct is boring. I want my positions to be challenged, and if your argument is strong enough, I'll modify my position without a lot of emo.

It is only by vigorous and fair debate that interested observers can get a good sense of the issues and the merits of proposed solutions. In this forum, those interested observers often have names that start with "CCP" Twisted

PS: don't assume I'm a lock for re-election. I certainly don't!

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#492 - 2012-03-02 22:36:23 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Yea you will get re-elected... you're very active in forums and keep people updated. That is the main reason why one of my accounts has usually thrown you a vote even we don't always agree about everything :)

Good. I want people to disagree with me -- having people continually tell me I'm correct is boring. I want my positions to be challenged, and if your argument is strong enough, I'll modify my position without a lot of emo.

It is only by vigorous and fair debate that interested observers can get a good sense of the issues and the merits of proposed solutions. In this forum, those interested observers often have names that start with "CCP" Twisted

Naa... I'm done with this subject for now as the main argument took place yesterday and mutual agreement has been reached already. CCP had good intentions to reach perfectly good goal, but primary methods to make that happen were not the best. Now there is time out for rethinking stuff over before deciding about further actions for reaching the goals which were set.

The implant/hardwiring name changes which continue are pretty much justified even though I would like to see some additional stuff done to them also. Missiles are still a bit open case as far as I understand... hopefully those will be sorted in the end too.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#493 - 2012-03-02 22:43:31 UTC
Can you please put the text line,

that says what meta level an item is,

that you can find in the attributes tab under the info button,

on the same line as all the other items and preferable in the top part of the attributes tab.



This way we can familiarize the new names to the meta level, when keeping the attribute tab open.

Adding this reply, because the line saying what meta level an item is,

is usually at the bottom of the tab and not always on the same height when you switch items.

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Snus Mumriken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#494 - 2012-03-02 23:35:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Snus Mumriken
Proposal
Add the old flavor names to Afterburners and MicroWarpdrives but keep the new naming scheme as with the missile launchers. The whole names can't be used, because that would make them sound weird - like Limited 1MN 'Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters' MicroWarpdrive I. Also the force should be put right after the meta prefix to distinguish ABs and MWDs of different strength even when there is only limited space for the module name under the icon.

Afterburners

  • Limited 1MN Afterburner I Arrow Limited 1MN 'Monopropellant' Afterburner I
  • Experimental 1MN Afterburner I Arrow Experimental 1MN 'Cold-Gas Arcjet' Afterburner I
  • Experimental 10MN Afterburner I Arrow Experimental 10MN 'Y-S8 Hydrocarbon' Afterburner I
  • Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Arrow Experimental 100MN 'LiF Fueled' Afterburner I


MicroWarpdrives

  • Upgraded 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Arrow Upgraded 1MN 'Phased Monopropellant' MicroWarpdrive I
  • Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Arrow Limited 1MN 'Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet' MicroWarpdrive I
  • Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Arrow Experimental 10MN 'Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon' MicroWarpdrive I
  • Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Arrow Prototype 100MN 'Quad LiF Fueled' MicroWarpdrive I


Additionally, why do the available meta levels of ABs and MWDs seem just completely random?

I'm on Twitter.
Terram alWathani
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#495 - 2012-03-02 23:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Terram alWathani
Tiger's Spirit wrote:

Morning. Just for dumbs. Need meta icons and problem resolved.

http://iaro.3dmax.hu/images/2012/03/02/variations.jpg



Icons ftw. Instant recognition of meta level without having to rename everything (plus the attendant hassle of third party apps being broken for awhile). Keep it simple.

Taking the above screenshot with a little amateur Gimp action and voila! I'll let you artistic design types argue over the proper color to use and all...
http://i43.tinypic.com/ab1lj5.jpg
Shin Dari
Covert Brigade
#496 - 2012-03-03 00:55:21 UTC

I can sympathize that people want some flavor, but one thing that has always annoyed me was the use of obvious nonsense in the names. So much is complete and obvious BS. I will be very glad to be rid of the excessive bad technobabble.

If CCP is going to add a flavor section to the modules names then they should look at using short flavor names/terms that make sense. If really necessary I wouldn't even mind them using NPC Corp names. So that we have Meta brands for specific factions.


Also CCP should avoid meta terms that deal with quantities, seeing hundreds of pieces of the exact same 'limited' module in the market breaks my suspension of disbelief. Please reserve such terms for storyline items.

Some suggestions for meta level terms: Tuned, Upgraded, Enhanced, Perfected,
Josef Stylin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#497 - 2012-03-03 00:57:33 UTC
Don't fix what ain't broke.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#498 - 2012-03-03 01:41:42 UTC
While icons are nice, the issue that CCP keeps bringing up is how will a new player know the difference when buying from the market menu?

Most of the idea ccp has is to make market searchign more fluid not only for players but easier on the system.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#499 - 2012-03-03 02:06:29 UTC
If only the names were not so boring...
Introduce a scheme, yes, but make the names poetic, sci-fi
Sturmwolke
#500 - 2012-03-03 03:26:54 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
While icons are nice, the issue that CCP keeps bringing up is how will a new player know the difference when buying from the market menu?
Most of the idea ccp has is to make market searchign more fluid not only for players but easier on the system.


Elementary my dear Watson. Make the market search more powerful.