These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: What's in a name

First post First post
Author
Jalmari Huitsikko
Molden Heath Angels
#501 - 2012-03-03 11:10:28 UTC
Josef Stylin wrote:
Don't fix what ain't broke.


this

also give back my scourges and mwd now
Morrigu Storm
D'tael Contracts
#502 - 2012-03-03 11:18:48 UTC
I think this is a shame personally.

If this is the logical way to go why do we need ship names just call them names like Gallente cruiser tier 1, Amarr Battleship tier 3 etc?

Trust me if I can learn the current names of all the mods then anyone can.


Maerthasch
Perkone
Caldari State
#503 - 2012-03-03 11:53:25 UTC
Didn't read the whole thread, but personally I would prefer something in this order:

Meta 1: Tuned/Boosted/Adapted
Meta 2: Enhanced/Improved/Upgraded
Meta 3: Limited Edition/Prototype/Experimental
Meta 4: Breakthrough/Advanced/State-of-the-art
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#504 - 2012-03-03 13:07:27 UTC
Probably a good thing that I read this blog pre-coffee, because I feel the blood pressure going up and up.

First of all, changing nomenclature in a game that is 8+ years old with players of a similar duration seems asinine. What I see here is one name or adjective replacing the original name or adjective. How does this add value to your current and new subscribers? Is this intended to help with EVE's learning curve, perhaps?

Second, and I know it has been said before, you guys are not doing any favors to the ecosystem of 3rd party developers who have built up all of the apps that make EVE more usable and viable. As an end-user, I count on certain 3rd party efforts to make my time spent in EVE more efficient and successful. This initiative is not helpful in that regard.

Speaking only for myself, I find no value, but rather inconvenience and irritation having to suffer though this nonsense.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#505 - 2012-03-03 15:44:37 UTC
Hate the changes to the armor names. Nothing wrong with magnetic, reflective etc. They already make very obvious sense. In fact the only changes I do like are to the implants.
Jacob Stein
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#506 - 2012-03-03 17:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacob Stein
I won't go to fanfest just because if I'll meet that mf who renamed MY DAM SCOURGES to some whatewer 'trauma' is gonna get raped!
Bloodhands
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#507 - 2012-03-03 18:08:47 UTC
Please for the love of god, don't change my pwnage (target painter)
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
RONA Directorate
#508 - 2012-03-03 19:14:39 UTC
Bloodhands wrote:
Please for the love of god, don't change my pwnage (target painter)



Someone hasnt bothered reading this entire thread. At about page 20 they said they are not changing target painters.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
RONA Directorate
#509 - 2012-03-03 19:19:00 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
While icons are nice, the issue that CCP keeps bringing up is how will a new player know the difference when buying from the market menu?
Most of the idea ccp has is to make market searchign more fluid not only for players but easier on the system.


Elementary my dear Watson. Make the market search more powerful.



Thats easier said than done. But a good point, rather than renaming modules would it be easier to give the market overhaul?


say when you browse to an item it has the meta icon on the right side next to the info bar? or maybe on the left before the item name.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#510 - 2012-03-04 00:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
Here's a question that's been bugging me more and more: whom is this change supposed to benefit?

Before I get to it, I'd like to make a few comments.

I think the missile name change was on the whole a very good idea. Maybe there should've been some difference in nomenclature between rockets, missiles and torpedoes, and maybe "Scourge" should have been used instead of "Trauma," but on the whole it is now easier for all players to quickly find the right missile damage type, which is a good thing.

I also think the skill implant name change is good. It mostly preserves the flavor and uniqueness of the implants, but adds useful information so that it is easier to find the right implant.

However, the module name change doesn't seem to benefit anyone very much, for a very simple reason: no sane player selects directly from the market which modules to fit on a ship.

Older players, unless they're complete nitwits, use a third-party fitting tool like EFT or PyFA or borrow fittings from other players. The actual fitting of a ship occurs completely out of game, where the name and nominal meta-level of the modules is irrelevant, since third-party tools already present all relevant module stats and their effect on the ship to the player. Adding the meta level of a module to its name would be completely superfluous. A player who fits the ship in EFT doesn't care about the name of the module he needs for the purposes of selecting it, and he most certainly doesn't care whether the meta level of the item is in the game, because he is looking at specific stats and not at an imperfect proxy like meta level. For example, if the EFT fitting for the ship I'm flying calls for a "Large 'Regard' Power Projector," I'm going to search for that module on the market and fit it, unless I cannot afford it, in which case I will go back to EFT and look at the next-best item and see if it still works, because lower-meta modules have higher fitting requirements. In either case I won't care one bit whether you change the name of the above module to "Large Awesome Energy Transporter," so long as it shows up properly in EFT. So older players aren't really going to benefit from this change in any way.

Newer players might look on the market for modules. Such players however also do not really care about module names, for two reasons. (1) They usually cannot afford anything but the lowest-meta items. (2) If they are smart, they will look at fittings from other players, and copy those, in which case the names of the modules are irrelevant for the reasons already stated. (3) If they are really smart, or simply ask in help chat, or ask their corp/alliance members, they will be referred to a third-party fitting tool and will become like older players mentioned above and will not care about module names, just what the modules do.

The only time module names will matter is if the player is browsing the market categories, or looking up variants on the market or via the "show variants" function. Two changes will help players in such cases much more than any name change. (1) Sort modules in the market by meta level rather than by name; this way it will be readily apparent which modules are "better" than others. (2) Allow players to jump directly to a module's market category by right-clicking on a module name. EFT already does this, and so does PyFA most likely. This way a player can quickly look up different-meta modules and see the prices for all at a glance.

So for both older and newer players, module names shouldn't be causing problems. If you really want to help out new players, direct them in the tutorial to third-party tools like EFT and PyFA. Ideally such tools should be integrated directly into EVE itself, but that's not entirely necessary. Also make the market search more powerful, change the sorting of items on the market, and maybe even change module icons to indicate meta level. There are a myriad of ways in which you could make it easier for new players to fit ships and find modules, and all of them are better than homogenizing module names.

At the same time, a wholesale name change will break all of the fitting guides that have been written for EVE. Considering the extent to which EVE relies on player-written guides, ask if breaking all of those guides is something you really want to do without a very good reason. A wholesale name change will also significantly reduce the feeling of EVE as a real universe. Ask if that is something desirable, considering how often CCP proclaims the importance of immersion in EVE.

And if are still planning on overhauling all the module names, please at least consider all of the alternative proposals that have been put forth in this thread. I do not object to the idea of making this game easier for players, especially new players. I do object to the manner in which you are going about it.
Embrodak Kazerin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#511 - 2012-03-04 01:05:06 UTC
I wrote up a big post, but the forum ate it so you're getting the short version.

This attempt at renaming the items is much better than the last one. Names are more intuitive, but flavor is preserved. Battleship missiles and implants really needed it.

Will you be redoing the names you already changed? "Trauma" is a stupid name for a missile. How about "Scourge Kinetic"?

Meta prefixes need more work. When I first played Eve, I avoided all the "Limited" guns because I thought it meant they were worse than the regular ones. "Experimental" and "prototype" don't make sense either when we're mass producing T2 variants.

My suggestion:

Meta1: Calibrated
Meta2: Optimized
Meta3: Enhanced
Meta4: Upgraded

The first two words imply software adjustments, while the last two imply improvements to the hardware itself. That should make the relative quality levels more intuitive while keeping within the Eve style.
ScooterPuff Sr
Shenanigans Mining Hub
#512 - 2012-03-04 01:06:30 UTC
Embrodak Kazerin wrote:
I wrote up a big post, but the forum ate it so you're getting the short version.

This attempt at renaming the items is much better than the last one. Names are more intuitive, but flavor is preserved. Battleship missiles and implants really needed it.

Will you be redoing the names you already changed? "Trauma" is a stupid name for a missile. How about "Scourge Kinetic"?

Meta prefixes need more work. When I first played Eve, I avoided all the "Limited" guns because I thought it meant they were worse than the regular ones. "Experimental" and "prototype" don't make sense either when we're mass producing T2 variants.

My suggestion:

Meta1: Calibrated
Meta2: Optimized
Meta3: Enhanced
Meta4: Upgraded

The first two words imply software adjustments, while the last two imply improvements to the hardware itself. That should make the relative quality levels more intuitive while keeping within the Eve style.

i suggest they put it back the way it was. or make it more confusing.
whats the point of a game if no ones on their toes
Samroski
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#513 - 2012-03-04 08:08:37 UTC
Embrodak Kazerin wrote:
I wrote up a big post, but the forum ate it so you're getting the short version.
My suggestion:
Meta1: Calibrated
Meta2: Optimized
Meta3: Enhanced
Meta4: Upgraded

The above makes much more sense than the experimental/prototype system suggested.

No matter what convention is used, I am delighted that I will be able to recognize meta 1-4 items by name. There are multiple applications of this change in every aspect of the game, and as a trader I love it.

I am in favour of all the changes suggested (esp. hardwiring), though I also think that the "array" in a launcher name makes absolutely no sense. Totally counter-intuitive, and counter-productive to the objectives of this exercise.

Keep up the good work!

Any colour you like.

Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#514 - 2012-03-04 18:59:29 UTC
-1 for thinking too much about gross simplicity and not enough about retaining the sci-fi flavor of the game. This is almost as ridiculous as renaming "light sabers" to "blue swords" in Star Wars, or retconning Star Trek to rename "phasers" to "guns".

"Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters" simply sounds much more interesting than "Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I".

If you insist on incorporating the meta level in the name, then simply add it to the existing name, ex. Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Meta-2 Thrusters, as you are proposing to do with the hardwiring implants.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#515 - 2012-03-04 19:08:10 UTC
+1 for changes to names for hardwiring implants.

However, I'd suggest removing the [Skill/Function Name] and only keep the [Two-Letter Flavor Acronym] - you don't need both. If necessary, you can always expand the two-letter acronym to a three-letter acronym, to allow for additional differentiation between similarly initialed skills/functions.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#516 - 2012-03-04 19:19:23 UTC
-1 for renaming Armor Coating/Armor Hardener/Armor Plating Energized/Shield Resistance Amplifier/Shield Hardener modules.

These modules are already consistently named and the names already indicate the damage types which they affect.

It is simply not necessary to include the actual damage type in every module name. You might as well suggest changing weapon names, too - ie. lasers to "EM/thermal guns" and hybrids to "thermal/kinetic" guns.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#517 - 2012-03-04 19:27:55 UTC
-1 to changing "Heavy Assault Missile Launchers" to "Assault Missile Launchers".

Change one, or change the other, if you feel the need to address "the counterintuitive assault launcher/heavy assault launcher dichotomy", but don't rename one into the other.

This will just increase the confusion, not reduce it, esp. due to the amount of out-of-game legacy material on the Internet which refers to the old names and which CCP cannot edit.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#518 - 2012-03-04 21:24:33 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
-1 for renaming Armor Coating/Armor Hardener/Armor Plating Energized/Shield Resistance Amplifier/Shield Hardener modules.

These modules are already consistently named and the names already indicate the damage types which they affect.

It is simply not necessary to include the actual damage type in every module name. You might as well suggest changing weapon names, too - ie. lasers to "EM/thermal guns" and hybrids to "thermal/kinetic" guns.



this, pretty much.

also, +1 to all the comments mentioning you're breaking EIGHT YEARS worth of guides.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#519 - 2012-03-05 01:03:54 UTC
Snus Mumriken wrote:
Proposal
Add the old flavor names to Afterburners and MicroWarpdrives but keep the new naming scheme as with the missile launchers. The whole names can't be used, because that would make them sound weird - like Limited 1MN 'Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters' MicroWarpdrive I. Also the force should be put right after the meta prefix to distinguish ABs and MWDs of different strength even when there is only limited space for the module name under the icon.

Afterburners

  • Limited 1MN Afterburner I Arrow Limited 1MN 'Monopropellant' Afterburner I
  • Experimental 1MN Afterburner I Arrow Experimental 1MN 'Cold-Gas Arcjet' Afterburner I
  • Experimental 10MN Afterburner I Arrow Experimental 10MN 'Y-S8 Hydrocarbon' Afterburner I
  • Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Arrow Experimental 100MN 'LiF Fueled' Afterburner I


MicroWarpdrives

  • Upgraded 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Arrow Upgraded 1MN 'Phased Monopropellant' MicroWarpdrive I
  • Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Arrow Limited 1MN 'Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet' MicroWarpdrive I
  • Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Arrow Experimental 10MN 'Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon' MicroWarpdrive I
  • Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Arrow Prototype 100MN 'Quad LiF Fueled' MicroWarpdrive I


Additionally, why do the available meta levels of ABs and MWDs seem just completely random?


Can't quote this hard enough!

Stuff Goes here

Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#520 - 2012-03-05 16:14:53 UTC
God dammit CCP either

Make the names ACTUALLY easier to follow

or leave them alone

These changes are not good.

CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool