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Logi 4 and fleet boosters
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Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#1 - 2011-09-20 22:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
So I've been playing with EFT, and it seems that with a tengu fleet booster using a shield efficiency link, but NOT and active shielding link, it's possible to make a basilisk with level 4 logi and meta 4 gear stable with only one cap transfer on it, though with only one cap transfer active.

This is BEFORE any implants are taken into account, using level V skills apart from L4 logi, using this basi fit:
http://incursions.nexsoft.de/?mode=fit&id=10

So is there any practical use for this? All I can think of is that it frees up that cap transfer for short bursts of energy to hungry ships, but that only lasts a bit over a minute before the cap goes dry.

thhief ghabmoef
Goose99
#2 - 2011-09-20 23:23:28 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
So I've been playing with EFT, and it seems that with a tengu fleet booster using a shield efficiency link, but NOT and active shielding link, it's possible to make a basilisk with level 4 logi and meta 4 gear stable with only one cap transfer on it, though with only one cap transfer active.

This is BEFORE any implants are taken into account, using level V skills apart from L4 logi, using this basi fit:
http://incursions.nexsoft.de/?mode=fit&id=10

So is there any practical use for this? All I can think of is that it frees up that cap transfer for short bursts of energy to hungry ships, but that only lasts a bit over a minute before the cap goes dry.


There's no reason to not use both booster links. If you're gimping repair by doing so, might as well just turn off a rr to achieve the same effect. Those Basilisks will still need to form cap link, one or 2 transfer is just a click's difference. Any BS that requires energy to be fed to it has got to be a failfit.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#3 - 2011-09-21 00:15:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Not necessarily a failfit. In incursions, for example, it's common enough to see a battleship that can use one or two cicles every now and then. Shield abaddon, for example, or a megathron with hardeners in all 4 mid slots. And the extra repping power of the active shielding link wouldn't really be needed, I wouldn't think...? Or at least not in vanguards?

I suppose this would allow a level 5 logi to remove its second cap transfer from the L4 and answer cap calls, yeah?

thhief ghabmoef
Goose99
#4 - 2011-09-21 00:21:02 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Not necessarily a failfit. In incursions, for example, it's common enough to see a battleship that can use one or two cicles every now and then. Shield abaddon, for example, or a megathron with hardeners in all 4 mid slots. And the extra repping power of the active shielding link wouldn't really be needed, I wouldn't think...? Or at least not in vanguards?

I suppose this would allow a level 5 logi to remove its second cap transfer from the L4 and answer cap calls, yeah?


Shield abaddon, mega with hardners in all 4 mids? Those are indeed fail fits. Where are the mandatory webs and TCs? (No, TEs won't do, it's 9% tracking vs 30% for hitting Vanguard frig rats)

In any case, if you don't need the extra repping power, turn off a repper.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#5 - 2011-09-21 00:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Shield has enough of EHP for vanguards, and a max tank mega would be 2x invuln, 1x therm, 1x em hardener, and a kinetic rig. Pretty standard stuff, man.

thhief ghabmoef
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#6 - 2011-09-21 00:46:06 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Shield has enough of EHP for vanguards, and a max tank mega would be 2x invuln, 1x therm, 1x em hardener, and a kinetic rig. Pretty standard stuff, man.

Not standard, failfit. Being overtanked and not being able to hit anything is not a formula for success.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#7 - 2011-09-21 03:17:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Megathron has a tracking bonus, and is a bit too light on shield to comfortably run 3 mods unless you have shiny stuff on it...but by that point you're in an NMega or Vindi, both of which are fine with 3. Even the nexsoft fit runs 4 mods, though it goes more for buffer than resists.

thhief ghabmoef
Aessaya
Independent treasure hunters
#8 - 2011-09-21 04:15:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Aessaya
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
*snip* Shield abaddon *snip*

Please, never, ever use these two words in a single sentence again! Or bad things will happen.

p.s. this forum needs a :facepalm: emote!

quick edit: shield laser bs are called Nightmare.

Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song.
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#9 - 2011-09-21 04:23:09 UTC
if a ship needs cap, we usually just have one basi cap transfer for a cycle or two and go back to its normal cap buddy. it isnt the end of the world since a basi wont cap out in that time.

heck done it several times when we where just two basi pilots and its no sweat. Why waste so much extra repping power SPECIALLY as that extra repping power means you can turn off your reppers a little now and then and feed cap while still being able to handle any large damage spikes.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#10 - 2011-09-21 06:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
^ True that, no ship should use so much cap that a couple of cycles every few minutes won't sustain it. I'm just trying to find a apot for that trick to be useful. For incursions, which I guess would be the most likely place to find such an epic booster, all I can think of is that it allows a logi V basi to perma-run a 5/1 setup with a logi 4 cap partner.

Aessaya wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
*snip* Shield abaddon *snip*

Please, never, ever use these two words in a single sentence again! Or bad things will happen.

p.s. this forum needs a :facepalm: emote!

quick edit: shield laser bs are called Nightmare.

It works fine.

Not everyone has the resources to fly those, you know. Shield aba puts out over 1k dps, with enough tank for VG's and decent enough tracking to hit any webbed target. The only problem is its cap life. My eft fit has it at about 4 minutes of cap life with everything running continuously using navy multifreq 3 minutes with conflageration, so 2-3 cycles from a cap transfer every few minutes should run it just fine. Hell, even another battleship could handle that. (I've done it before in an nmega : /)

thhief ghabmoef
Gingerlord
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-09-21 08:05:06 UTC
Fronk! Dude. Multifreq's on a Baddon! Mail me in game with questions. I can't take the fail in this post!

:smile:
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-09-21 08:29:36 UTC
Tbh if you fix your em hole (rig), put 2 inv on, and a DCU, your done for most shield BS's (and the shield baddon) anything more is buffer and just preference (fly on the line is more fun).
I fly solely Logi and the only ships ive had to worry about are BC's that don’t have the natural buffer of a BS. They can get missed in the watch list delay. For a vanguard 3 logi is more than enough to keep 60% resist BS around and happy... unless those nasty sansha effects are still around then overtank like a b*tch!

No Worries
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#13 - 2011-09-21 18:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
0/ Ginger. Was just quoting cap life to give a point of reference... : /

Photon + 2 invuln and a thermal rig really is fine if you have logis you trust, agreed. In a PUG? Not so much, IMO. I've had to yell over audio one too many times for that. : /

thhief ghabmoef
Goose99
#14 - 2011-09-21 19:59:51 UTC
Is the failness not self-evident? Have you considered fitting a shield BS instead? Like a nice big Maelstrom or something. As opposed to a shield Abaddon with 4 hardners and no web/TC...Roll
Isan'na
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-09-21 20:13:36 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Shield aba puts out over 1k dps, with enough tank for VG's and decent enough tracking to hit any webbed target.


Because it totally has amazing awesome astounding webbing power in its fifth and sixth midslot... Roll

Point is, if you're relying on someone else's webs, you're dead weight, your completion time will suffer, and you will lose to any halfway competent fleet.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#16 - 2011-09-21 20:46:23 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Megathron has a tracking bonus, and is a bit too light on shield to comfortably run 3 mods unless you have shiny stuff on it...but by that point you're in an NMega or Vindi, both of which are fine with 3. Even the nexsoft fit runs 4 mods, though it goes more for buffer than resists.

Tracking bonus isn't enough to be able to hit smaller targets, you REALLY need a TC or a web, at the very least.
Also, assuming you have decent logis, 2 invulns, an em rig, and a damage control are all you need on ANY BS to tank a vanguard with no issues, and in a good fleet you can get away with even less than that. More than 3 mids spent on tank is a waste on damn near any ship. I actually got to test this theory not long ago as I've been helping a friend of mine set his corp up to run incursions tp fund their pvp. Suffice to say, the only time we had any problems was when someone showed up in a mega with only 1 t1 invuln and a damage control as tank. 2 Basis were enough to keep even him alive.

I point you to what I said earlier: Being overtanked and not being able to hit anything is not a formula for success.

I will, however, say that a shield abaddon can work for those with little isk and little SP (I myself am much more fond of a shield tanked zealot for the amarr pilots low on SP, they knock frigs off almost as well as the vindi), you just need to make sure it's rather lightly tanked, ideally 2 invulns a DC and an em rig, or a thermal rig and an em hardener if you're worried about the quality of your logi pilots. That said, it is far from ideal, and tbh I would take a harb over an abaddon, because at least the harb is good enough at hitting small targets to actually contribute something to a half-decent fleet.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#17 - 2011-09-21 21:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Isan'na wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Shield aba puts out over 1k dps, with enough tank for VG's and decent enough tracking to hit any webbed target.


Because it totally has amazing awesome astounding webbing power in its fifth and sixth midslot... Roll

Point is, if you're relying on someone else's webs, you're dead weight, your completion time will suffer, and you will lose to any halfway competent fleet.

Most of the decent fleets I've run with have relied on a loki or huginn for webs. : /

Cambarus wrote:
Tracking bonus isn't enough to be able to hit smaller targets, you REALLY need a TC or a web, at the very least.
Also, assuming you have decent logis, 2 invulns, an em rig, and a damage control are all you need on ANY BS to tank a vanguard with no issues, and in a good fleet you can get away with even less than that. More than 3 mids spent on tank is a waste on damn near any ship. I actually got to test this theory not long ago as I've been helping a friend of mine set his corp up to run incursions tp fund their pvp. Suffice to say, the only time we had any problems was when someone showed up in a mega with only 1 t1 invuln and a damage control as tank. 2 Basis were enough to keep even him alive.

I point you to what I said earlier: Being overtanked and not being able to hit anything is not a formula for success.

I will, however, say that a shield abaddon can work for those with little isk and little SP (I myself am much more fond of a shield tanked zealot for the amarr pilots low on SP, they knock frigs off almost as well as the vindi), you just need to make sure it's rather lightly tanked, ideally 2 invulns a DC and an em rig, or a thermal rig and an em hardener if you're worried about the quality of your logi pilots. That said, it is far from ideal, and tbh I would take a harb over an abaddon, because at least the harb is good enough at hitting small targets to actually contribute something to a half-decent fleet.

Half-decent fleets are not numerous if you're relying on PUG's, sadly. Decent logis can never be guaranteed. From my experience it seems that unless you get lucky, anything less than t2 guns and a pirate battleship will have trouble getting a good fleet.

With a group I know, I'd be happy to run a 3-slot tank on the mega...I do it regularly with the nmega even with random groups. But a plain jane megathron with a 3-slot tank got hit into armor too many times for me to be comfortable with it. YMMV

And again, the mega does just fine hitting most targets. Almost every fleet I've been in has had a dedicated web ship of some sort. No need for every ship in the fleet to have one.

Goose99 wrote:
Is the failness not self-evident? Have you considered fitting a shield BS instead? Like a nice big Maelstrom or something. As opposed to a shield Abaddon with 4 hardners and no web/TC...Roll
Never said it was ideal, but they do work. I just used it as an example because most aba fits need cap every now and then, and they're common enough.

thhief ghabmoef
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#18 - 2011-09-21 21:35:30 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:

Most of the decent fleets I've run with have relied on a loki or huginn for webs. : /


And again, the mega does just fine hitting most targets. Almost every fleet I've been in has had a dedicated web ship of some sort. No need for every ship in the fleet to have one.
.

As a rule, fleets using dedicated webbing ships, and actively relying on them to be able to get the rest of the guys hitting things, are not what would normally be considered "decent"
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#19 - 2011-09-21 22:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Cambarus wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:

Most of the decent fleets I've run with have relied on a loki or huginn for webs. : /


And again, the mega does just fine hitting most targets. Almost every fleet I've been in has had a dedicated web ship of some sort. No need for every ship in the fleet to have one.
.

As a rule, fleets using dedicated webbing ships, and actively relying on them to be able to get the rest of the guys hitting things, are not what would normally be considered "decent"

When was the last time you found a PUG where even half of the ships had webs? I've never seen it happen. Better to just grab a dedicated webber and not worry about it. Let the rest of them fit SeBos or TCs

thhief ghabmoef
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-09-22 21:12:42 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:

Most of the decent fleets I've run with have relied on a loki or huginn for webs. : /


And again, the mega does just fine hitting most targets. Almost every fleet I've been in has had a dedicated web ship of some sort. No need for every ship in the fleet to have one.
.

As a rule, fleets using dedicated webbing ships, and actively relying on them to be able to get the rest of the guys hitting things, are not what would normally be considered "decent"

When was the last time you found a PUG where even half of the ships had webs? I've never seen it happen. Better to just grab a dedicated webber and not worry about it. Let the rest of them fit SeBos or TCs



It's called making "friends". Seriously, talk to people and gather like minded ones and then voila no more drakes!