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Eve versus Star Trek

Author
Korah Arnelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-02-22 07:43:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Korah Arnelle
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
I see you all ignored the Star Trek trump card....

Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Star Trek ships can fire while warping Pirate



I think if we're gonna to make that claim, then I have to point out that according to most analysises (sp?) of Star Trek vs Starwars would leave EVE somewhere in the middle of the two in terms of the ability to muster energy into destructive power. Remember, most capital and supercapital ships are effectively attacking each other with what would the equivalent of multiple relativistic kill vehicles. Realistically, that would mean in a head-to-head fight at sub-light speeds Eve capital and supercapital vessels would destroy even a Borg cube (or at least severely damage it). Remember, more or less all the warp capable canon races of Star Trek don't use things like relativistic kill vehicles nor ballistic weapons of the traditional sort (I don't think anyone could say a photon torpedo fits in the same category as a rail gun). So, their defenses center on fighting off mostly energy based weapons. And their deflector technology largely is for dispersing spacedust by manipulating subspace fields around the vessel (There's one episode of Enterprise which this problem was discussed). Beyond that, canon deflector technology cannot substitute their specific defenses of shields, which deal with energy based weapons such as polaron weapons, photon torpedos (anti-matter/matter explosives), disruptors, and phasers. So, if something massy were to hit their vessels, it would probably punch right through it as it is often shown both in film (ST:Nemesis) and TV shows (DS9: The Jem'Hadar).

Edit: To make the point on the matter of the Borg versus mass driven weapons, there is a scene in Star Trek: First Contact where Picard decided to use a holodeck created tommygun to get around the Borg's personal shields. So, even Borg technology as it exists per canon has not adapted or taken into account primitive weapons of this kind.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#62 - 2012-02-22 12:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Merin Ryskin wrote:

ST X: unwatchably bad, but IIRC still short range and low relative speed

You skip over this one, and for good reason. The Enterprise is both attacked (and returns fire) whilst at warp speed. There are also episodes of DS9 and VOY where this happens (In the popular episode "Flashback" the Excelsior is attacked at warp by a Klingon ship).

You've blathered a lot, but I wanted to make a few points:

- ST ships are able to both lock and destroy weapons that are missile based.
- Phasers have a near infinite tracking (if it can lock on, it can hit) The exception to this is when transversal changes after firing, when the other ship performs evasive maneuvers)
- Weapon range in general is in the order of thousands of KMs (at the very least, you can find many *many* examples of the Enterprise firing phasers onto the planet surface (very accurately) from a "standard orbit" which is 10-20,000km
- The *very basic* "phase cannons" on the Enterprise (Nx-01) are rated at 500gigajoiles each. A Heavy Pulse laser is 13gigajoules, and a doomsday device is 27500gigajoules (for some comparison). This suggests a doomsday beam would be incredibly damaging to most ST shielding, but standard weapons are not.
- "Full impulse" is 1/4 light speed, or ~75 MILLION metres per second. Eve ships can lock to 250km, which means that it takes a ST ship 3x10^-6 seconds to kite out of range. There's no scenario in which you would be able to get in range to even fire.

In general, the reason you see ships in ST engage in close range combat is:
- One party is "I am not moving from this place"
- Ships are typically of equal speed, so running is not an issue. Ships have optimal ranges out to the 10's of 1000's of KMs and no concept of tracking, so "range dictation" hardly matters.
- Budget, (of the show) simple as.
- Cinematography. Long ranges are often quoted but things *look* close. This is to avoid the battle looking like two grains of sand shooting red lines at each other on screen.
- The main viewscreen of the Enterprise (etc) is actually zoomed on the target. This is the equivalent of pressing "look at" in Eve.

Finally, the ST cannon "tech specs" are out there, if you care to look at them. Simply claiming "but that's not what I've seen on screen, I am ignorant" is not evidence.

Regardless of whether they frequently do, or not, they *can* which means they *will* if it gives a tactical advantage. Imagining a ship sitting still and brawling when it could maneuver to take *no* incoming damage at all is silly.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#63 - 2012-02-22 13:23:50 UTC
I think it is pointless because neither the Star Trek physics and certainly not the EVE physics would work in the real world. Even when leaving any real world physics out, the settings and the mechanics presented in EVE and Star Trek are to different to compare.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#64 - 2012-02-22 16:30:19 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
You skip over this one, and for good reason.


No, I skipped over it because it's a painfully bad movie and I'm not going to watch it again just for the sake of a forum debate. There's no hidden agenda here.

Quote:
- ST ships are able to both lock and destroy weapons that are missile based.


So why are photon torpedoes an effective weapon, if Star Trek ships have anti-missile defenses with a useful success rate? I don't know if you can find even a single incident of shooting down incoming torpedoes in combat, but it would certainly be the very rare exception to the rule.

Quote:
- Phasers have a near infinite tracking (if it can lock on, it can hit) The exception to this is when transversal changes after firing, when the other ship performs evasive maneuvers)


If you miss the target because it takes evasive action then you do NOT have "infinite tracking".

And, given that we see countless examples of phaser shots missing huge warships moving at incredibly slow angular velocity, it's pretty clear that phaser "tracking" is laughably bad. And don't bother blaming it on "flight time", if a phaser shot from 1km takes long enough to reach the target that an extremely slow "evasive maneuver" is enough to cause it to miss there is absolutely no way phasers can be effective at the massive ranges that have been quoted.

Quote:
- Weapon range in general is in the order of thousands of KMs (at the very least, you can find many *many* examples of the Enterprise firing phasers onto the planet surface (very accurately) from a "standard orbit" which is 10-20,000km


Against static targets, maybe. However the overwhelming majority of fights in Star Trek take place at visual range and extremely low relative velocity.

Quote:
- The *very basic* "phase cannons" on the Enterprise (Nx-01) are rated at 500gigajoiles each. A Heavy Pulse laser is 13gigajoules, and a doomsday device is 27500gigajoules (for some comparison). This suggests a doomsday beam would be incredibly damaging to most ST shielding, but standard weapons are not.


Ah, I love it when Star Trek fans try to claim meaningless technobabble "statistics" that only demonstrate the hilarious scientific ignorance of both fanboys and whatever idiot wrote them in the first place.


(Hint for the clueless: my flashlight is rated at 10000000000000 gigajoules. Try leaning the difference between power and energy.)
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#65 - 2012-02-22 16:35:00 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
- "Full impulse" is 1/4 light speed, or ~75 MILLION metres per second. Eve ships can lock to 250km, which means that it takes a ST ship 3x10^-6 seconds to kite out of range. There's no scenario in which you would be able to get in range to even fire.


Unfortunately, just like with EVE warp drives, these high speeds are only useful for travel, not combat. Star Trek ships might be capable of 0.25c, but they rarely, if ever, fight at those speeds. The vast majority of fights in Star Trek happen at relative speeds that are far, far slower than EVE combat.

Quote:
- One party is "I am not moving from this place"


And this is exactly what would happen in a war with the EVE universe. When an EVE fleet enters orbit around the homeworld of every Star Trek faction and starts exterminating the civilian population, the Star Trek defenders will have to come in close to fight.

Quote:
- Ships are typically of equal speed, so running is not an issue. Ships have optimal ranges out to the 10's of 1000's of KMs and no concept of tracking, so "range dictation" hardly matters.


This is laughably wrong, given how frequently Star Trek ships miss even at point blank range.

Quote:
- The main viewscreen of the Enterprise (etc) is actually zoomed on the target. This is the equivalent of pressing "look at" in Eve.


I'm talking about exterior views which clearly show the ships at extremely close range.

Quote:
Finally, the ST cannon "tech specs" are out there, if you care to look at them. Simply claiming "but that's not what I've seen on screen, I am ignorant" is not evidence.


Unfortunately the people who decide what is canon in Star Trek disagree with you. Exactly two things are canon:

1) The movies.

2) The TV episodes.

If you don't see it on screen, it isn't canon. End of discussion.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2012-02-22 16:57:55 UTC
The problem with ST number nerds is they want their stuff to be better than the other massive SF collection, the SW nerds.

The SW nerds do not like this (what nerd would) so they up their numbers because SW > ST.

So we end up with these mad numbers which have very little to do with what everyone sees on the screen.


ST also has the weekly special tech which only gets used once then forgotten about. Trek nerds then bounce around quoting episode 34 which shows that tribbles can be loaded into the torpedo tube and can be shot at a target at a range of a million billion miles and whack that kilingon in the eye. Meanwhile the other 99% of episodes show every fight happening at very close range with very inaccurate weapons doing very little damage (untill someone has a technobabble fit and re-polerises something and victory is had).

Personally, I see a galaxy class going toe to toe with a megathron within blaster range getting torn apart by 7 massive car size blocks of antimatter slapping it at close to the speed of light every few seconds while having all of its energy sucked out of it and getting jammed by 5 heavy ECM drones.

At least, untill the technobabble happens.
NaturalBeast
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-02-24 06:35:45 UTC
[quote=baltec1

Personally, I see a galaxy class going toe to toe with a megathron within blaster range getting torn apart by 7 massive car size blocks of antimatter slapping it at close to the speed of light every few seconds while having all of its energy sucked out of it and getting jammed by 5 heavy ECM drones.

At least, untill the technobabble happens.[/quote]


I seriously doubt that. The tech differences is so massively different that there really is no comparison. All the Enterprise has to do is beam a boarding party and whoop the Mega's nonexistant crew's ass. The Mega can't even target subsystem because its not even a feature in game. And how do you expect the Mega to neut through the shields of a Galaxy class starship? LOL
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2012-02-24 10:37:29 UTC
NaturalBeast wrote:



I seriously doubt that. The tech differences is so massively different that there really is no comparison. All the Enterprise has to do is beam a boarding party and whoop the Mega's nonexistant crew's ass. The Mega can't even target subsystem because its not even a feature in game. And how do you expect the Mega to neut through the shields of a Galaxy class starship? LOL


Same way it neuts through the shields of everything else?

Also, our ships have crew, and who needs to target a subsystem when you can just blow off an entire engine by hitting the skinny strut?
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#69 - 2012-02-24 11:08:02 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
No, I skipped over it because it's a painfully bad movie and I'm not going to watch it again just for the sake of a forum debate. There's no hidden agenda here.

You keep saying "if it is in the movies / TV, it is cannon"

Well, ST: X shows an example of ships fighting at faster than light speeds. So we agree that's cannon, then? Or are you just going to refuse this 'fact' because it's not convenient to you? Let's make this reallll easy for you : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-Y_PKuXqo

1minute 58 seconds into that clip shows combat at warp speeds.

Other examples:
- Voyager engages Borg ships at warp
- Enterprise engages Borg ships at warp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXvi8uD8qYY&feature=autoplay&list=PL73432B6188954BF0&lf=results_video&playnext=2)
- Voyager, Year of hell: Voy engages in multiple battles at warp or fast sublight speed.
- ST:TUC - Whilst under attack, Kirk orders a reverse course at 1/4 impulse speed, which is defined as "slow"
- ST:TNG in the episode where the enterprise plays "war games" the speed and distance of the target and heading is read several times, this is 1000's of KMs and degrees of impulse speed.
- ST:TNG - enterprise manoeuvres through an asteroid belt at full impulse
- ST:DS9 - defiant often engages in battle at full impulse speed


"So why are photon torpedoes an effective weapon, if Star Trek ships have anti-missile defences with a useful success rate?"

Enterprise shoots down missiles in one episode, I forget the name. It also plans to shoot the missile down in ST:Generations, but wouldn't be able to lock the target in time. Nonetheless, it is an option.
Regardless, here is an example of it tracking small ships - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlobZcUJ9lg - skip to 25secs into it. These ships are 29m long, so a sig radius on par with an escape capsule or light drone. In this clip the Enterprise has just entered the Lysian system, and has slowed to full impulse. The Enterprise is tracking and hitting targets that are 29m long whilst travelling at 0.25c. Yes, this is *completely* at odds with what you see in DS9, which is why you need to move away from those battle scenes and views of relative speed and distance from what you see *on screen* to what is actually *verbally quoted* in the show. One is subject to a terrible budget, the other is what is happening.

"However the overwhelming majority of fights in Star Trek take place at visual range and extremely low relative velocity."

Both are simply a constraint of the *budget*. On the one hand you have verbal commands to perform x or y manoeuvres at impulse, the other, an external shot which suggests an actual speed of a few hundred MPH. Again, you have to look past the on screen representation to what is actually meant to be happening.

For instance, the same stock footage of the enterprise using it's main deflector is used dozens of times. Are we to believe everything it can emit looks the same, or that it's a budget restraint?

You simply have to accept there is more to Trek battles than "that only looks 400m away!" *especially* when Worf is telling the captain / viewer the target is at 5000km

Since I have now offered cannon links and evidence to the show, I would like you to support your claims by showing:

- Any Trek ship needing to slow below impulse (to thrusters) to fight
- A quoted engagement range of less than 250km
- Somewhere someone saying a ship can't fight at warp
- Somewhere someone saying a ship can't fight at high impulse

"Ah, I love it when Star Trek fans try to claim meaningless technobabble "statistics" that only demonstrate the hilarious scientific ignorance of both fanboys and whatever idiot wrote them in the first place."

I know the difference between energy and power. In respect to the phase cannon quote, the cannon is stated *in the show* as being 500gigajoules. That is to say, one shot / pulse contains 500GJ of energy, much in the same way you quote explosive yield in joules. This is a direct comparison to the same quotation in Eve documentation. It's a valid use case. Duration (and any semblance therefore of "power") is meaningless - though I could probably dig up a few quotes from ST:TNG of where the power of phasers are quoted (for instance, when they are used for drilling).

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#70 - 2012-02-25 04:44:02 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
It also plans to shoot the missile down in ST:Generations, but wouldn't be able to lock the target in time. Nonetheless, it is an option.


So, let me get this straight: your evidence for Star Trek ships being able to shoot down missiles is a case where they failed to even lock the missile in time to do anything?

Quote:
Both are simply a constraint of the *budget*.


Fine, let's accept your argument that the budget is a factor*. This means that the movies are the most important evidence, since they had the largest budget and therefore the greatest freedom for the artists to create what Star Trek combat is supposed to look like without allowing financial issues to decide what they show. The following movies have ship vs. ship combat:

Wrath of Khan: visual range and low relative velocity, even outside the nebula.
Search for Spock: visual range (a few ship lengths) and low relative velocity.
The Undiscovered Country: visual range and low relative velocity.
Generations: visual range and low relative velocity, and the Klingon ship STILL misses its target over and over again.
First Contact: visual range (shorter than the length of the Borg cube) and low relative velocity.
Insurrection: visual range and low relative velocity.
Nemesis: you claim high speed and long range.

So even if I grant your claim that Nemesis actually shows what you say it does (I'm not going to suffer the pain of watching it to find out), 85% of Star Trek shows ship vs. ship combat at point blank range and slow relative speeds.





*It isn't really, since it costs just as much to make CGI animations of ships fighting at 500m as it does to have them fighting at 5000000000000000km. If anything, it costs a bit more since the render times are longer when you have both ships on screen at the same time.

Quote:
You simply have to accept there is more to Trek battles than "that only looks 400m away!" *especially* when Worf is telling the captain / viewer the target is at 5000km


Or I can assume that the exterior scenes are correct, and Worf is a ****ing idiot. Which we already knew...
Korah Arnelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-02-27 06:22:55 UTC
Then why do the fights always happen within less than a kilometer with respect to every ST movie or TV show? Granted, some scenes show multi-kilometer attacks. All of this is for building up a good fighting scene between ships. Regardless, if we were to be using 'realistic' physics for both ST and Eve, at best we would have something like out of Scott Sigler's the Crypt where most of the action is really about waiting for the impact of a relativistic kill vehicle/projectile. Which would mean most fights wouldn't last for long in reality.

Note: I'm referencing the Crypt since one of the short stories deals with a potentially realistic fight between space craft if such a thing were possible per engineering constraints. Sigler tends to take reasonable reference material from engineers and scientists on such matters for his stories (he has quite a few in his fan base, oddly enough).
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-02-27 07:15:42 UTC
The discussion about range will just go around and around in circles, but most posters have forgotten something. The range issue is irrelevant. If its conceded that ships in Star Trek do indeed fight at 100km and less and its also conceded that for this fight the Star Trek ship wouldn't be firing at warp, or even with impulse you end up with a close range fight using manoeuvring thrusters.

Guess what? According the way EVE ships track their targets they still couldn't hit the ST ships. So no zooming about at 1/4 light speed shooting from 5000km away and most of the ships from EVE still couldn't hit back. Thruster speeds go up to at least 14km/sec (TNG: Booby Trap) so when you consider things like tracking and range the weapons and ships most likely to do serious damage to Star Trek ships (higher tier mediums and all tier large) either cant track or don't have enough range. In the case of missiles they can simply outrun them.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2012-02-27 09:30:20 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
The discussion about range will just go around and around in circles, but most posters have forgotten something. The range issue is irrelevant. If its conceded that ships in Star Trek do indeed fight at 100km and less and its also conceded that for this fight the Star Trek ship wouldn't be firing at warp, or even with impulse you end up with a close range fight using manoeuvring thrusters.

Guess what? According the way EVE ships track their targets they still couldn't hit the ST ships. So no zooming about at 1/4 light speed shooting from 5000km away and most of the ships from EVE still couldn't hit back. Thruster speeds go up to at least 14km/sec (TNG: Booby Trap) so when you consider things like tracking and range the weapons and ships most likely to do serious damage to Star Trek ships (higher tier mediums and all tier large) either cant track or don't have enough range. In the case of missiles they can simply outrun them.


yet in 99% of the fights they fly around at seemingly 100mphUgh
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-02-27 09:36:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
The discussion about range will just go around and around in circles, but most posters have forgotten something. The range issue is irrelevant. If its conceded that ships in Star Trek do indeed fight at 100km and less and its also conceded that for this fight the Star Trek ship wouldn't be firing at warp, or even with impulse you end up with a close range fight using manoeuvring thrusters.

Guess what? According the way EVE ships track their targets they still couldn't hit the ST ships. So no zooming about at 1/4 light speed shooting from 5000km away and most of the ships from EVE still couldn't hit back. Thruster speeds go up to at least 14km/sec (TNG: Booby Trap) so when you consider things like tracking and range the weapons and ships most likely to do serious damage to Star Trek ships (higher tier mediums and all tier large) either cant track or don't have enough range. In the case of missiles they can simply outrun them.


yet in 99% of the fights they fly around at seemingly 100mphUgh


TNG era it seemed like that for sure, but from the midpoint of DS9 and in Voyager there was a lot more swooping and dodging
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2012-02-27 10:20:02 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:


TNG era it seemed like that for sure, but from the midpoint of DS9 and in Voyager there was a lot more swooping and dodging


Come to think of it, most of the ships in TNG just sat there and looked at eachother...
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-02-27 10:23:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:


TNG era it seemed like that for sure, but from the midpoint of DS9 and in Voyager there was a lot more swooping and dodging


Come to think of it, most of the ships in TNG just sat there and looked at eachother...


Lol yeah, usually a Romulan Warbird.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#77 - 2012-02-27 10:34:59 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Fine, let's accept your argument that the budget is a factor*. This means that the movies are the most important evidence


That's your weighting, and it's not true. For instance, they had to re-use a shot of the Bird of Prey exploding from ST:TUC in ST:GEN because they couldn't afford to reshoot it. Either way, you're strawmanning the argument and offering no evidence at all.

Merin Ryskin wrote:
Star Trek combat is supposed to look like


Therein lies the problem. No one wants to see 2 green pixels on their screen and be told it's a Romulan Warbird, they want to *see* the ******* thing. Ranges and speeds are quoted that are almost impossible to show on screen because it just doesn't make any sense to. Before DS9 there isn't even any evidence that phasers can miss; you have Worf targeting specific subsystems of a ship and scoring perfect hits. I've shown you a video of TNG era phasers tracking small objects at 0.25c (you ignored this) at yet you still bleat on about tracking. The only time phasers are *meant* to miss is when the ship takes a *random* evasive action after the firing process (someting like 2secs) starts.

But hey, you like quoting things as if they matter, so let's pull it apart a bit.

You said: "Wrath of Khan: visual range and low relative velocity, even outside the nebula"

Whereas the script said:

KHAN
(almost sing-song
with joy)
Slow to one-half impulse power.
Let's be friends...

HELMSMAN
Slowing to one-half impulse.

JOACHIM
They're requesting visual
communications, sir.

KHAN
Let them eat static.

JOACHIM
They're still running with shields down.

KHAN
Of course. We're one big happy fleet.
Ah, Kirk, my old friend, do you know
the Klingon proverb that tells us
revenge is a dish that is best
served cold?
(pause)
It is very cold in space.


Enterprise is nearly stationary and Reliant approaches at 0.125c and tracks and hits just fine. Yup, it looks different on-screen, because that's cinematography for you.

- Search for Spock: visual range (a few ship lengths) and low relative velocity

Enterprise is stationary for a reason ;)

- The Undiscovered Country: visual range and low relative velocity

I've quoted you wrong on this already ... but gosh darnit you just won't listen. So look here:

KIRK
Scotty, reverse engines. All
astern one half impulse power.
Back off. Back off!

154 EXT. SPACE 154
VFX VFX

The battered Enterprise reverses field, backing away
from nothing.

155 INT. BIR OF PREY BRIDGE 155

155 watching the maneuver. 155
VFX VFX

CHANG
(very soft)
What's she doing?

The HELMSMAN shrugs. Chang nudges him to follow...

156 INT. ENTERPRISE BRIDGE 156

The empty starfield.

KIRK
What's she waiting for?

SPOCK
Probably trying to figure out why
we're reversing, wondering if we
detect her.

156 ON the main visual display, where everyone's attention 156
VFX is riveted. A flare from black space. VFX

CHEKOV
Incoming.


Yep. Enterprise and baddy fighting at impulse speeds.

I could go on, but you get the gist. You've willfully confused cinematography with the presented information and used it to ham together a pathetic argument. You *still* ignored the examples of ships fighitng at warp speeds. You still ignored phasers quoted as being fired over 1000's of KMs.

Quote:
Or I can assume that the exterior scenes are correct, and Worf is a ****ing idiot. Which we already knew...


This is quite pathetic, really. A federation officer confusing 300m for 300km and he has a job?

PLEASE try harder than this, really.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#78 - 2012-02-27 13:16:19 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:


This is quite pathetic, really. A federation officer confusing 300m for 300km and he has a job?

PLEASE try harder than this, really.


Considering they always beam down the entire command crew into bad situations I would say this is a good possibility.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#79 - 2012-02-27 13:59:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:


This is quite pathetic, really. A federation officer confusing 300m for 300km and he has a job?

PLEASE try harder than this, really.


Considering they always beam down the entire command crew into bad situations I would say this is a good possibility.


I, too, wanted 2/3 of every episode to be a rotation of crew members we never met in the previous episode Roll

Though, at least in TNG they made the "no captain + first officer" rule, largely as an in-joke to the fact Kirk & Spock went on every single away mission together.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Something Random
Byddin Un
#80 - 2012-02-27 19:42:04 UTC
Istvaan would probably steal the Enterprise and airlock its captain.



Job Done.

"caught on fire a little bit, just a little."

"Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangs´╗┐ all here!"

I love Science, it gives me a Hadron.