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Micro-Carrier Destroyer- The Gallente Rex Goblinus

Author
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#21 - 2012-02-16 17:25:56 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Dear Clueless Ally,

Ship Piloting is a skill you don't put in your skill queue. Its something you, as a player, develop over time.
Just because a ship is 'T2' or 'T1' doesn't make it an automatic win/lose ship. Batlleships can be killed by Frigates.
Assault Frigates can be killed by Rifters, Interceptors can be killed by Titans (lolwtf?!).

No ship in this game should ever be implemented with the sheer principle in making the lazy dolt behind the
keyboard instantly effective at anything.


First off, regarding your inappropriate comments about my corp / alliances activities, I am posting this from a job site. While I am permitted breaks often due to the nature of my work, I cannot actually log into the game as you might imply. Sucks to be me, I know, but I get to spend time thinking of these ideas...

Next, as to your rather bizarre assumptions about piloting skills as related by my previous posts, OF COURSE the better pilot wins fights. What game have you been playing where this is not the case?
Are you kidding me here, or have you taken up trolling suddenly? I don't recall your conclusions being so far out in the past.
That is totally irrelevant to the point I was making, which dealt with overall averages. Do you actually need to see "All things being equal", or "Pilot skill notwithstanding", to understand this obvious detail?

This ship is not even close to being an "I Win" button for anyone, much less a lazy dolt.

Go have a beer, calm down your ranty-ness, and try to be constructive next time.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2012-02-16 17:32:20 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
This ship is not even close to being an "I Win" button for anyone, much less a lazy dolt.

Go have a beer, calm down your ranty-ness, and try to be constructive next time.




Right, because a Destroyer class ship launching 10 drones fits perfectly within the current balance of things.

For what its worth, I'm completely against the idea of anything being a Micro-Capital. Triage, Siege and Drone Hordes are all things that should require both limited use (i.e. Null Sec) and extensive training.
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#23 - 2012-02-16 17:46:10 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
The drone bonus issue is pretty clear if you just look at the other small/medium drone carriers.

Using existing ships as a reference the proper drone bonus for this ship would be +10% to drone damage and HP per level of Micro-carrier.

The limit to a flight of small drones keeps this balanced against the cruiser class drone carriers and it is reasonable and expected that a T2 Assault Destroyer would be more potent than an AF of similar role (Ishkur in this case) and leaves it less potent than it's HAC counterpart (Ishtar) by a significant margin.

I can see adjusting it accordingly, but keep in mind the only secondary role I am offering it is logistic.

Ships like the curse have extremely effective draining abilities in addition to their drones. It should take a T2 cruiser or better to beat one of these hands down, the same way T2 overshadows a T1 elsewhere.

A T2 AF should own a T1 destroyer, absolutely. But the T2 destroyer should own it. Same principle I feel.

Drop the Turret Hardpoints entirely. It will make the ship more risky to fly, but I like that myself.

I have a pilgrim, really similar to a curse, just not as strong offensively since it cloaks. I figure the curse is the cruiser role model closest to what you are trying to do.

They both state up front: Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. (Keep in mind, you had to get cruiser to 5 to train recon, so everyone flying this has the drone bonus up to 50%)

Now, add to this they are using medium drones, and can carry 15 of these total.

They also have up to 100% bonus to draining, and for the curse up to 200% to drain range thanks to this:
Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level

That last bonus set is devastating in combat. Sure, the drones do a lot of the DPS, but they are not what wins the fights for the curse, and to a lesser extant the pilgrim.

With your boat relying completely upon the drones in a fight, just with a logistic secondary role, I don't think the drones are really that OP at all.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#24 - 2012-02-16 17:51:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikk Narrel
Xolve wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
This ship is not even close to being an "I Win" button for anyone, much less a lazy dolt.

Go have a beer, calm down your ranty-ness, and try to be constructive next time.




Right, because a Destroyer class ship launching 10 drones fits perfectly within the current balance of things.

For what its worth, I'm completely against the idea of anything being a Micro-Capital. Triage, Siege and Drone Hordes are all things that should require both limited use (i.e. Null Sec) and extensive training.

Wait, what?

AHhhh, it becomes clear now.

The PREVIOUS BONUS part was there just for reference. It only sends out max 5 drones currently. You must have skimmed it and missed this detail set's explanation.
(PREVIOUSLY: ship bonus is can deploy 1 additional Drone per level)

Ten drones with those bonuses would be mad OP, that is not what I have here.

EDIT: I put it more clearly this ship does not use ten drones on the original post
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#25 - 2012-02-16 18:02:59 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Xolve wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
This ship is not even close to being an "I Win" button for anyone, much less a lazy dolt.

Go have a beer, calm down your ranty-ness, and try to be constructive next time.




Right, because a Destroyer class ship launching 10 drones fits perfectly within the current balance of things.

For what its worth, I'm completely against the idea of anything being a Micro-Capital. Triage, Siege and Drone Hordes are all things that should require both limited use (i.e. Null Sec) and extensive training.

Wait, what?

AHhhh, it becomes clear now.

The PREVIOUS BONUS part was there just for reference. It only sends out max 5 drones currently. You must have skimmed it and missed this detail set's explanation.
(PREVIOUSLY: ship bonus is can deploy 1 additional Drone per level)

Ten drones with those bonuses would be mad OP, that is not what I have here.

EDIT: I put it more clearly this ship does not use ten drones on the original post


10 drones dealing 100% DPS each and 5 drones dealing 200% each are still the exact same DPS.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2012-02-16 18:08:06 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

Wait, what?

AHhhh, it becomes clear now.

The PREVIOUS BONUS part was there just for reference. It only sends out max 5 drones currently. You must have skimmed it and missed this detail set's explanation.
(PREVIOUSLY: ship bonus is can deploy 1 additional Drone per level)

Ten drones with those bonuses would be mad OP, that is not what I have here.

EDIT: I put it more clearly this ship does not use ten drones on the original post


Read it again.

If this is a T2 subclass of Destroyer and not another ship type, then I'd be all for it, given these changes:

-2 Rig Slots.
-50m3 Drone Bay, 25 Bandwidth (2 sets of Lights)
-Reduce Drone HP/Damage bonus to 15%/Level
- +5% Bonus Drone Control Range/Level

Or something to that effect, sorry I read this forum alot and I'm almost instantly against any idea that proposes the idea of a Mini-Carrier, Mini-Dread, Mini-Whatever (and also tend to skim the idea since they are mostly rehashed versions of the same thing). Also- this would need to be balanced across all 4 races to give each an edge.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#27 - 2012-02-16 19:06:04 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Read it again.

If this is a T2 subclass of Destroyer and not another ship type, then I'd be all for it, given these changes:

-2 Rig Slots.
-50m3 Drone Bay, 25 Bandwidth (2 sets of Lights)
-Reduce Drone HP/Damage bonus to 15%/Level
- +5% Bonus Drone Control Range/Level

Or something to that effect, sorry I read this forum alot and I'm almost instantly against any idea that proposes the idea of a Mini-Carrier, Mini-Dread, Mini-Whatever (and also tend to skim the idea since they are mostly rehashed versions of the same thing). Also- this would need to be balanced across all 4 races to give each an edge.

Agreed, each race would want their own version, I picked Gallente because they would have the best overall drone boat by expectation, probably followed by Amarr.

I want it to be totally dependent on it's drones as well, plus Mary also raised some good points, and I think I have a compromise.
(I took the cue from the mentioned Curse on some details)

How would this version work?

Changes:
1 rig slots
A 75m3 drone bay, 25 bandwidth (3 sets of lights) (other races get 50m3 dronebays)
Destroyer Skill: Drone HP/Damage bonus to 15%/Level
Micro-Carrier skill: +5% Bonus Drone Control Range/Level
2 Turret Hardpoints

PREVIEW:

Gallente destroyer with up to five total small drones.
Role Bonus to small drone speed: 50%
Destroyer Skill: Drone HP/Damage bonus to 15%/Level
Requires Micro-Carrier skill, ship bonus +5% Bonus Drone Control Range/Level
10% reduction in Shield Transport capacitor use per level
and 10% reduction in Shield Transport CPU need per level


For tradition, I gave the Gallente this boat.

Micro-Carrier Destroyer
Gallente Rex Goblinus


Low Slots 4
Med Slots 2
High Slots 8


Turret HardPoints 2
Rig slots 1
Rig size Small

CPU 190 tf
Powergrid 60 MW

Drone capacity 75 m3
Drone Bandwidth 25 Mbit/sec

Cargo capacity 300

Armor: 700
Resistances:
EM: 50%
Explosive: 10%
Kinetic: 45%
Thermal: 35%

Shield: 600
Resistances:
EM: 0%
Explosive: 50%
Kinetic: 50%
Thermal: 20%

Structure: 700

Maximum targeting range: 30,000M
Max locked targets 6

Propulsion 250 m/sec
Ship warp speed 9.0 AU/S
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#28 - 2012-02-16 19:16:26 UTC
o.O "+5% drone control range per level", "30km targeting range". Seems contradictory, don't it?

Also, please learn the naming system of Eve before trying to suggest ship names, there are already strong themes in the names. If you don't see/know the theme, please stop posting and learn more about the game.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#29 - 2012-02-16 19:47:49 UTC
mxzf wrote:
o.O "+5% drone control range per level", "30km targeting range". Seems contradictory, don't it?

Also, please learn the naming system of Eve before trying to suggest ship names, there are already strong themes in the names. If you don't see/know the theme, please stop posting and learn more about the game.

Not at all as far as contradictions go.

The ship cannot lock a target for attack beyond 30km, but the drones themselves, once engaged, can go quite some distance beyond that, assuming skills are in place.

It also lets them react defensively based on their range, not the ship's targeting, in those instances.

As for names, Gallente lends itself to a Greek or Roman feel here, making this name fit perfectly.
It takes the drone name, hobgoblin, and combines it with the latin Rex for king, and adding a -us at the end to make the feel more appropriate.
(The proper latin is actually gobelinus for this, but the game established precedent using the drone name already, so I just compromised)

Thank you for granting me an excuse to explain that detail Smile
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#30 - 2012-02-16 20:07:31 UTC
Drones can already attack a target at any range, they simply can't be given orders beyond drone control range (or locking range, whichever is shorter). Which makes it just as much of a contradiction as I said.

And, no, Gallente don't "lends itself to a Greek or Roman feel here", their ships are typically named after characters in the Greek (and some from Byzantine) mythos. It's not simply using words based on Greek roots (and certainly not Latin).
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#31 - 2012-02-16 21:13:06 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Drones can already attack a target at any range, they simply can't be given orders beyond drone control range (or locking range, whichever is shorter). Which makes it just as much of a contradiction as I said.

And, no, Gallente don't "lends itself to a Greek or Roman feel here", their ships are typically named after characters in the Greek (and some from Byzantine) mythos. It's not simply using words based on Greek roots (and certainly not Latin).

Perhaps it would help if I pointed out the idea was to limit the range the drones could be sent to attack with.

As to the names, do try to keep in mind the Gallente may have a familiarity to these names you refer to, but they are not connected to them directly. The whole back-story of EVE makes this separation quite clear.
Also, some of these "names" are words in latin.
http://www.latin-dictionary.org/navitas
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#32 - 2012-02-16 21:22:38 UTC
AB frigate pilots beware - I guess. MWD frigates will have no problems since they simply outrun the small drone blob.

(this is a cleverly disguised rant about my drone bays sucking donkey balls for most forms of fast paced combat)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#33 - 2012-02-16 22:10:55 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
AB frigate pilots beware - I guess. MWD frigates will have no problems since they simply outrun the small drone blob.

(this is a cleverly disguised rant about my drone bays sucking donkey balls for most forms of fast paced combat)

AB pilots are just as likely to avoid this, most frigates are already faster than a dessie.

With the right cooperation, they might be able to ambush though...
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#34 - 2012-02-16 23:08:08 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
AB frigate pilots beware - I guess. MWD frigates will have no problems since they simply outrun the small drone blob.

(this is a cleverly disguised rant about my drone bays sucking donkey balls for most forms of fast paced combat)

AB pilots are just as likely to avoid this, most frigates are already faster than a dessie.

With the right cooperation, they might be able to ambush though...

I dunno, they might avoid getting in target range by this destroyer, but if it should tag them, does that mean the lil drones can catch an AB frig?
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#35 - 2012-02-17 02:09:54 UTC
I really don't think a Carrier Destroyer needs a bigger drone bonus than the Ishtar has, even if it *is* limited to small drones. Destroyers are supposed to be frigate killers, after all.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#36 - 2012-02-17 15:32:38 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
I really don't think a Carrier Destroyer needs a bigger drone bonus than the Ishtar has, even if it *is* limited to small drones. Destroyers are supposed to be frigate killers, after all.

Two points to consider.

1, the Ishtar would wipe the map with this, hands down. It comes out swinging with five heavy drones, it is in a higher league than this destroyer.

2, despite the size difference, an Ishkur, (not even the Ishtar here), is still capable of eating this destroyer for lunch too. Between it's better defenses and guns than the destroyer, versus the destroyer's better drone damage... it's almost an even fight.

And this after I tried to give this T2 dessie a slight edge over any T2 frigate. The Ishkur with a better pilot would win every time.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#37 - 2012-02-17 15:37:59 UTC
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#38 - 2012-02-17 20:03:14 UTC
In line with it's role as anti-frigate, and given that many frigates can simply outrun drones, maybe a speed boost to the drones instead of the range boost?

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#39 - 2012-02-17 20:10:25 UTC
As a destroyer pilot I have managed to eat an iskur all it took was defanging one that launched her drones a bit too early.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-02-17 20:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Renton
I approve. But just to make it extra unique, why not make it do something like this:

Micro-Carrier Skill Bonus: Able to control 1 additional drone per level.

Edit: Oh lol, you changed it from that. Well I don't see what was wrong with having a destroyer hull with 10 drones. It wouldn't be overpowered because destroyers are easy to pop anyways (Probably the easiest ship type in the game to destroy). If you're sitting in your battle-cruiser and you see 10 light drones of death coming your way, just fire a volley at the control ship and your problem is solved.
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