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Why do killmails exist?
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Azriel Geist
Pure Victory
#1 - 2012-02-16 04:47:15 UTC
I'm new(ish) to Eve. Before that I took a long break from MMOs. I had originally played Ultima Online before it got completely gutted. As far as I know, Eve offers the closest experience to UO. In UO most of the player items were created by crafters just as the industraliasts create all the normal items in Eve. So, you'd fit yourself out with said collection of items and have at it in PvP. However, unlike Eve, there was really no record of your win/losses such as killmails.

Which brings me to my next point, it seems people put a lot of weight/care/thought into killmails. I would even go so far as to say some people obsess over them. And I think this is ultimately bad for the game. It adds a hindrance for people's willingness to engage in PvP. So why not remove killmails, because they really don't make that much sense given that CCP says they want more ships to get blown up.
Sarmatiko
#2 - 2012-02-16 04:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
So devs should remove killmails only because you think that EVE is UO?
The reason behind killmail existence - we can point and laugh at your Rifter losses Pirate
Azriel Geist
Pure Victory
#3 - 2012-02-16 04:57:27 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
So devs should remove killmails only because you think that EVE is UO?


No, they should remove them to encourage more pew pew.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#4 - 2012-02-16 04:58:44 UTC
Azriel Geist wrote:
I'm new(ish) to Eve. Before that I took a long break from MMOs. I had originally played Ultima Online before it got completely gutted. As far as I know, Eve offers the closest experience to UO. In UO most of the player items were created by crafters just as the industraliasts create all the normal items in Eve. So, you'd fit yourself out with said collection of items and have at it in PvP. However, unlike Eve, there was really no record of your win/losses such as killmails.

Which brings me to my next point, it seems people put a lot of weight/care/thought into killmails. I would even go so far as to say some people obsess over them. And I think this is ultimately bad for the game. It adds a hindrance for people's willingness to engage in PvP. So why not remove killmails, because they really don't make that much sense given that CCP says they want more ships to get blown up.



Killmails mean as much as you are willing to let them.

They're there so people can prove to others what they killed. Otherwise EVE would be full of bullshit claims and braggarts. You don't have to post your kills, you know. Cool
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-02-16 04:59:40 UTC
But we need them to measure our epeens.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#6 - 2012-02-16 05:00:32 UTC
I have no care of killmails. To prove it, I only post losses.
Azriel Geist
Pure Victory
#7 - 2012-02-16 05:00:39 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Azriel Geist wrote:
I'm new(ish) to Eve. Before that I took a long break from MMOs. I had originally played Ultima Online before it got completely gutted. As far as I know, Eve offers the closest experience to UO. In UO most of the player items were created by crafters just as the industraliasts create all the normal items in Eve. So, you'd fit yourself out with said collection of items and have at it in PvP. However, unlike Eve, there was really no record of your win/losses such as killmails.

Which brings me to my next point, it seems people put a lot of weight/care/thought into killmails. I would even go so far as to say some people obsess over them. And I think this is ultimately bad for the game. It adds a hindrance for people's willingness to engage in PvP. So why not remove killmails, because they really don't make that much sense given that CCP says they want more ships to get blown up.



Killmails mean as much as you are willing to let them.

They're there so people can prove to others what they killed. Otherwise EVE would be full of bullshit claims and braggarts. You don't have to post your kills, you know. Cool


But others will. I have no problem, I just thought killmails were at odds with the idea of generating more PvP.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#8 - 2012-02-16 05:09:36 UTC
Azriel Geist wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Azriel Geist wrote:
I'm new(ish) to Eve. Before that I took a long break from MMOs. I had originally played Ultima Online before it got completely gutted. As far as I know, Eve offers the closest experience to UO. In UO most of the player items were created by crafters just as the industraliasts create all the normal items in Eve. So, you'd fit yourself out with said collection of items and have at it in PvP. However, unlike Eve, there was really no record of your win/losses such as killmails.

Which brings me to my next point, it seems people put a lot of weight/care/thought into killmails. I would even go so far as to say some people obsess over them. And I think this is ultimately bad for the game. It adds a hindrance for people's willingness to engage in PvP. So why not remove killmails, because they really don't make that much sense given that CCP says they want more ships to get blown up.



Killmails mean as much as you are willing to let them.

They're there so people can prove to others what they killed. Otherwise EVE would be full of bullshit claims and braggarts. You don't have to post your kills, you know. Cool


But others will. I have no problem, I just thought killmails were at odds with the idea of generating more PvP.


sure, people will post your losses.
if you generally win fights, this is a very good thing. it leads to people looking up your killboard, laughing, assuming you are incompetent, attacking you overconfidently, dying horribly, and not posting their lossmail.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#9 - 2012-02-16 05:31:40 UTC
If Eve had no killmails: Players would generate third party tools for trying to generate something like killmails, or some sort of record of combat. It would of course be full of errors and fraud. Annoyed by the errors and fraud, players would ask CCP for something authoritative to replace these third party tools, and we would get killmails.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Aggressive Nutmeg
#10 - 2012-02-16 05:37:41 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Otherwise EVE would be full of bullshit claims and braggarts.

HOLY ******* LOL!!! Big smile

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#11 - 2012-02-16 05:45:26 UTC
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Otherwise EVE would be full of bullshit claims and braggarts.

HOLY ******* LOL!!! Big smile


You must live in highsec.
Alara IonStorm
#12 - 2012-02-16 05:46:39 UTC
I like having a reference of every Battle I have ever fought. Sometimes I go through them to remember.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-16 05:47:59 UTC
Carebear detected.
You lose something expensive lately that youre butthurt over?

seriously, get over it.
eve doesnt work like other MMOs. at all.
there are no ladders, no rankings, no 'elite' servers.
think of KMs as a way of keeping score.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#14 - 2012-02-16 05:50:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Jack Miton wrote:
Carebear detected.
You lose something expensive lately that youre butthurt over?

seriously, get over it.
eve doesnt work like other MMOs. at all.
there are no ladders, no rankings, no 'elite' servers.
think of KMs as a way of keeping score.


He's reminiscing over oldschool UO.

You ever play UO?

I can pretty much guarantee he isn't a carebear if he enjoyed that game before the shard changes. It was essentially the inspiration for EVE's PvP system. It was quite a bit harsher, in fact. If you wanted to do anything, you had to leave "highsec", and "highsec" was packed to the brim with pickpockets who wouldn't hesitate to rob you blind.

Corp Por, bitches.
Thomas Abernathy
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Fraternity.
#15 - 2012-02-16 05:59:59 UTC
Why do people collect corpses and do unspeakable things to them?

Because they can.....Big smile



"Fighting CCD since 2139"
Selinate
#16 - 2012-02-16 06:16:06 UTC
don't care about killmails?

Stop posting them on killboards.

There are a lot of killmails that I never posted and was never included on any killboard just because it's really not important to me, though I do do it for corporations if it's important to them.
Azriel Geist
Pure Victory
#17 - 2012-02-16 06:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Azriel Geist
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Carebear detected.
You lose something expensive lately that youre butthurt over?

seriously, get over it.
eve doesnt work like other MMOs. at all.
there are no ladders, no rankings, no 'elite' servers.
think of KMs as a way of keeping score.


He's reminiscing over oldschool UO.

You ever play UO?

I can pretty much guarantee he isn't a carebear if he enjoyed that game before the shard changes. It was essentially the inspiration for EVE's PvP system. It was quite a bit harsher, in fact. If you wanted to do anything, you had to leave "highsec", and "highsec" was packed to the brim with pickpockets who wouldn't hesitate to rob you blind.

Corp Por, bitches.


Yeah, I loved how reds (I guess pirates in Eve speak) would just camp dungeon entrances and we had to go around town rallying up random blues and then go out there and have huge Anti-PK vs PK brawls. So epic.

Vas Ort Flam Corp Por.. combo! :D

Edit: By the way, after thinking more on it, not having killmails would make PvP less enjoyable.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#18 - 2012-02-16 06:31:13 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:

The reason behind killmail existence - we can point and laugh at your Rifter losses Pirate


The dude is two months old, nearly has a 1:1 ratio, is already venturing into lowsec, and is experimenting with nonstandard fits. Sure, they aren't optimal, but there is a difference between a bad fit and a fit with a clear goal in mind, which just happens to be a suboptimal goal.

If anything, I see a budding PvPer. One with balls. A UO player.
Azriel Geist
Pure Victory
#19 - 2012-02-16 06:51:14 UTC
I guess I'm starting to see the value of killmails in Eve.

How else can I claim I helped Garmon take down a Machariel: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12151569.

Or my first solo kill on my first day venturing out into scary low sec: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11838658.

Pirate
Jita Alt666
#20 - 2012-02-16 07:02:27 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:

The reason behind killmail existence - we can point and laugh at your Rifter losses Pirate


The dude is two months old, nearly has a 1:1 ratio, is already venturing into lowsec, and is experimenting with nonstandard fits. Sure, they aren't optimal, but there is a difference between a bad fit and a fit with a clear goal in mind, which just happens to be a suboptimal goal.

If anything, I see a budding PvPer. One with balls. A UO player.


This is how test recruit more spies
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