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New Dev Blog: Your Client, Made Gooder

First post First post First post
Author
Rena Windor
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#61 - 2012-02-14 17:59:07 UTC
The only thing I can think of that would make the overview better is the ability to add more Tabs. Because sometimes there just arn't enough tabs. Those of us that used to go between combat and logi and other things going on when you have to worry about cap ships on the field and didn't want to have that tab off while trying to also do combat from time to time. Would be nice to have 10 tabs or something like that. The overview is the brain of the organization and the capacitor is the heart of the ship. Why can't it multitask better.

But overall, I love the plans and will have to check out SiSi tonight when I am not fakeing looking like I am working, when I am really parusing the intertubes looking at something way more awesome then tech documents.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#62 - 2012-02-14 18:01:53 UTC
Honestly, what I would REALLY like is the ability to split off overview tabs - so you can have 2 overviews to look at and keep certain information separate.


I'll keep dreaming though.

Where I am.

SuperSpy00bob
North Eastern Swat
#63 - 2012-02-14 18:12:46 UTC
I'm not sold on the overview locking on mouse-over. I think it will end up getting in the way more than it comes in handy, especially when FC's are broadcasting targets, which normally will jump to the top, but now won't change as your mouse is already hovering over the overview (waiting for the broadcast to come up, of course).

It might be a good idea to make this a setting that can be disabled. Blink
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2012-02-14 18:18:37 UTC
Another absolutely stunning performance and usability upgrade from this crew. Even the required change to the overview lock mechanism has been noticed and altered to match it with new improved refresh speed. This shows that you people have actually tested the stuff you code and want to deliver something to be proud of. Plenty of respect and big thanks to entire team. Special thanks about the window optimizations. Those were really really welcome.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#65 - 2012-02-14 18:19:09 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Honestly, what I would REALLY like is the ability to split off overview tabs - so you can have 2 overviews to look at and keep certain information separate.


I'll keep dreaming though.

That is actually a good idea in theory but I'm thinking the client would have to be changed a LOT to handle it, like putting two engines into a motorcycle, if the frame isn't designed specifically for it there's no way to make it work.

I just know someone will produce a wikipedia link of a dual-engined motorbike now.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#66 - 2012-02-14 18:29:02 UTC
Palovana wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:
Honestly, what I would REALLY like is the ability to split off overview tabs - so you can have 2 overviews to look at and keep certain information separate.


I'll keep dreaming though.

That is actually a good idea in theory but I'm thinking the client would have to be changed a LOT to handle it, like putting two engines into a motorcycle, if the frame isn't designed specifically for it there's no way to make it work.

I just know someone will produce a wikipedia link of a dual-engined motorbike now.


I think I heard CCP say something about possibility of doing it once, but I'll leave the official commentary to the Rebel Prince of EVE, Veritas.

Where I am.

Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-02-14 18:37:42 UTC
SuperSpy00bob wrote:
I'm not sold on the overview locking on mouse-over. I think it will end up getting in the way more than it comes in handy, especially when FC's are broadcasting targets, which normally will jump to the top, but now won't change as your mouse is already hovering over the overview (waiting for the broadcast to come up, of course).

It might be a good idea to make this a setting that can be disabled. Blink

You can target broadcasted targets from broadcast history.... It is rather important that with improved refresh speed overview does lock before hitting the button to prevent miss-clicks and make browsing the target easier.

I do however agree that lock while hovering over with mouse has some disadvantages - but after the update - it is still better than not locking at all and definitely still faster than with old overview's refresh speed.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

SuperSpy00bob
North Eastern Swat
#68 - 2012-02-14 18:50:07 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
SuperSpy00bob wrote:
I'm not sold on the overview locking on mouse-over. I think it will end up getting in the way more than it comes in handy, especially when FC's are broadcasting targets, which normally will jump to the top, but now won't change as your mouse is already hovering over the overview (waiting for the broadcast to come up, of course).

It might be a good idea to make this a setting that can be disabled. Blink

You can target broadcasted targets from broadcast history.... It is rather important that with improved refresh speed overview does lock before hitting the button to prevent miss-clicks and make browsing the target easier.

I do however agree that lock while hovering over with mouse has some disadvantages - but after the update - it is still better than not locking at all and definitely still faster than with old overview's refresh speed.


I'm well aware you can lock directly from the broadcast window, however the broadcast window often lags in heavy fighting, sometimes broadcasts even get lost if the FC is calling too fast (donno if this is a bug or intentional throttling), at times it's a lot faster to search the overview as the name is called over comms than it is to wait for the broadcast to come through.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#69 - 2012-02-14 19:00:51 UTC
Kubiq wrote:
Quote:
the sorting of the overview will lock when you hover over it


Win!


super win

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HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-02-14 19:06:23 UTC
devblog wrote:
BONUS GOODNESS:

Since the overview and brackets share a lot of code, we made them a bit faster by accident.


Hell yes.

How much is 'a bit'? Is there more to come on bracket lag? Having to sacrifice massive amounts of situational awareness to get a playable framerate at present is supremely irritating.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#71 - 2012-02-14 19:09:44 UTC
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
devblog wrote:
BONUS GOODNESS:

Since the overview and brackets share a lot of code, we made them a bit faster by accident.


Hell yes.

How much is 'a bit'? Is there more to come on bracket lag? Having to sacrifice massive amounts of situational awareness to get a playable framerate at present is supremely irritating.

Seemed gone. First time I realized cap and rep requested actually show when brackets are on. Join the mass test and see for your self.Smile

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Rixiu
PonyTek
#72 - 2012-02-14 19:16:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rixiu
CCP Veritas wrote:
Sascha Valieri wrote:
Quote:
With the increased update rate, we made one super tiny functional change which you’ll probably notice and hopefully like – the sorting of the overview will lock when you hover over it. Previously it would freeze if you held your lock button, but with things moving around quicker it felt better to lock sooner than that.


Does that mean, a new Target does not appear in the overview if I hover over it?

Imagine a Gate you are on one side and a nother player is jumping through. Does he appear on that overview after decloaking when I hover over the overview or not?


New objects show up at the bottom of the list and objects that leave get greyed out while sorting is locked. Same behavior as exists on TQ today if you hold down your lock key (ctrl by default).


Related question, what happens to the broadcasts when the window is locked? Will they still jump up as they do now or do I need to "unlock" the overview?
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-02-14 19:26:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
SuperSpy00bob wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
SuperSpy00bob wrote:
I'm not sold on the overview locking on mouse-over. I think it will end up getting in the way more than it comes in handy, especially when FC's are broadcasting targets, which normally will jump to the top, but now won't change as your mouse is already hovering over the overview (waiting for the broadcast to come up, of course).

It might be a good idea to make this a setting that can be disabled. Blink

You can target broadcasted targets from broadcast history.... It is rather important that with improved refresh speed overview does lock before hitting the button to prevent miss-clicks and make browsing the target easier.

I do however agree that lock while hovering over with mouse has some disadvantages - but after the update - it is still better than not locking at all and definitely still faster than with old overview's refresh speed.


I'm well aware you can lock directly from the broadcast window, however the broadcast window often lags in heavy fighting, sometimes broadcasts even get lost if the FC is calling too fast (donno if this is a bug or intentional throttling), at times it's a lot faster to search the overview as the name is called over comms than it is to wait for the broadcast to come through.


Yep... and at least I feel that certain name from static list is faster than searching it from list which is bouncing up and down.

Only major downside I see here is that you can't keep your mouse cursor on top of the overview all the time any more. This mainly comes to question when waiting someone to appear from cloak. These "new" targets are something that might need second look. In other words... should new targets keep appearing to end of the list while overview is in "locked" state to keep information accurate. In yet other words... should overview lock "lock" only the sorting but keep actual target information update active? Would this be even possible?

edit: NM, apparently it is working just like this already so... there clearly shouldn't be any problem.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#74 - 2012-02-14 19:28:04 UTC
Veritas, were you drunk when you wrote this? ;-) Also, great blog post. The overview settings are a massive buff to my frigate PVP lifestyle. :hi5:

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#75 - 2012-02-14 19:28:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
The hover lock feature is brilliant, yet simple. As others have said, it's behavior with broadcasts may need to be looked at.

This may not be in your area to look at, but I know a lot of people who would cry tears of joy for a simplified mechanic to correctly set up one's overview.

Obviously people eventually figure out (or are shown) one that works for sorting hostiles, etc in a manner that works well for what they are trying to do and where they are flying... but it's a pain if you ever have to set them up again (or learn how to do it to begin with).

Some may say this isn't necessary, but I believe a surprisingly large number of people turn away from PVP simply because they are embarrassed that they can't figure it out.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#76 - 2012-02-14 19:32:19 UTC
AFter reading these last few blogs.

CCP Veritas and team KILL ALL LAG! I mean grid lock....

Well, they are going to get a lot of free beer and poon at fanfest this year.

Just sayin, great work like this needs to be well rewarded.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#77 - 2012-02-14 19:33:35 UTC
IT goes back to usability if the 5 tabs where pre filled with the 5 standard templates that are now in game it would be a major win.
Even make unlocking new tabs part of the NPE. If you know how, skip the training and save your own. Its another step in the learning process that can be used as a reward to a new player.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#78 - 2012-02-14 19:36:06 UTC
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2012-02-14 19:41:41 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Thank you CCP Veritas!

Question - in the course of working on these fixes, have you fixed the bug where the overview occasionally fails to get or process a pilot's Alliance tag, therefore not applying the appropriate color tag and any filtering to his entry in the overview and ship bracket in space?

Probably not. I'm aware of that one and have it in my head while I'm going through code. Hopefully at some point I stumble upon something that could cause that. Without a reliable reproduction (as you say, it's rare), that's all I can really do Ugh


next time CCP runs a fleet ingame, have it be a capfleet. the bug is common, not rare, with large capfleets cyno'ing around (especially if fights are involved at one end).

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

SuperSpy00bob
North Eastern Swat
#80 - 2012-02-14 19:48:51 UTC  |  Edited by: SuperSpy00bob
Grey Stormshadow wrote:

Only major downside I see here is that you can't keep your mouse cursor on top of the overview all the time any more.


This is my point exactly, you now can't hold your mouse over the overview and expect it to update, where as before you could quickly toggle the lock button on and off and force the overview to pause when you wanted, and update normally when you wanted.