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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#2861 - 2012-02-10 17:39:39 UTC
wow 144 pages and still going lol

well let see, has any other wine thread about any other feature of EVE gone 143 pages? lol CCP still doesnt get it?

what blows my mind is that CCP has a great opportunity here for some awesome sci-fi gameplay outside of just ships in space. I've been spitting my ideas out for awhile and you get to a point where you figure. why? why push so hard to make DUST 514 PS3 but before that release partly implement some sort of WIS with limited gameplay? they must put something in the water in Iceland because these boys just arent thinking right.

FIS-WIS-DUST should have been integrated as PC only gameplay seamless content. wake the F up CCP, i'm beginning to think your project managers really have no idea what they are doing. So much for being THE epic sci-fi game on the market. who knows, maybe someone will come around and get it right next time. Roll too late to turn back now
Razin
The Scope
#2862 - 2012-02-10 17:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Razin
arcca jeth wrote:
wow 144 pages and still going lol

well let see, has any other wine thread about any other feature of EVE gone 143 pages? lol CCP still doesnt get it?



Keeping tally of unsubbed players (2589p 5836a) Vote of no confidence! - 3571 posts (vs 2861 in this one).


An overdue apology and request for parley - 13 453 posts
Fuee
Doomheim
#2863 - 2012-02-10 18:01:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Fuee
Razin wrote:
Fuee wrote:
CCP needs ambulation now more than ever, this is a big year for MMO's and leaning on clicking boxes in space, going back 10 years to tidy up outdated gameplay as a "focus" is going to ruin them.

If the past year showed anything, its that the above isn't just wrong, but that it is fatal for EVE Online.

You guys need to shut up and get in line. According to CCP Greyscale the 0.0/sov rework will take approximately 5 years. There is also low sec and other in-space gameplay work. Maybe you'll get something new after all that has been handled.


I really beg to differ, the Incarna model was clearly the problem and I don't know how anyone could say otherwise. Through the outrage a bunch of newer players who didn't know anything of "ambulation" came to think it was trendy to bash avatars. NEX was the problem CCP's greed was the problem both Soundwave and Hilmar were/are the problem (to some degree). Most of CCP staff which understood the sandbox and WiS left years ago. Who we have left now seem to be largely incompetent. As an example at the end of last years alliance tournament Soundwave announced that he was taking a month vacation, and he was going to spend it by "playing a lot of LoL to learn more about micro-transactions" Not only does that represent a ridiculous state of affairs in terms of developer competance, that's not even a good game to learn those things, try TF2.

The NEX store, they went to NY and hired 7th avenue fashion consultants, just pause right there and think about what the actual problems are/were.

Ambulation and WiS represent something that could not only be an extention of the sandbox we love in FiS but it could bolster it by a great margin. If done with any sense.

Before it was even released at the same AT Soundwave said on air what the concept of WiS meant to him "dressing up dolls" this guy is an idiot with no knowledge of what has been discussed for years or even what WiS was intended to be at all.

Don't blame WiS because you don't understand it, or because CCP didn't/doesn't.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2864 - 2012-02-10 18:02:53 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
wow 144 pages and still going lol


It would probably carry more weight and be much more significant if it wasn't the same half-dozen or so players posting over and over again in this thread speculating, whining and postulating.

But hey, for all the effort they got a 4 man Dev team and a solitary QA guy "commitment" , and some lip service saying CCP will do something with WIS, someday.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Razin
The Scope
#2865 - 2012-02-10 18:43:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Razin
Fuee wrote:
Razin wrote:
Fuee wrote:
CCP needs ambulation now more than ever, this is a big year for MMO's and leaning on clicking boxes in space, going back 10 years to tidy up outdated gameplay as a "focus" is going to ruin them.

If the past year showed anything, its that the above isn't just wrong, but that it is fatal for EVE Online.

You guys need to shut up and get in line. According to CCP Greyscale the 0.0/sov rework will take approximately 5 years. There is also low sec and other in-space gameplay work. Maybe you'll get something new after all that has been handled.


I really beg to differ, the Incarna model was clearly the problem and I don't know how anyone could say otherwise. Through the outrage a bunch of newer players who didn't know anything of "ambulation" came to think it was trendy to bash avatars. NEX was the problem CCP's greed was the problem both Soundwave and Hilmar were/are the problem (to some degree). Most of CCP staff which understood the sandbox and WiS left years ago. Who we have left now seem to be largely incompetent. As an example at the end of last years alliance tournament Soundwave announced that he was taking a month vacation, and he was going to spend it by "playing a lot of LoL to learn more about micro-transactions" Not only does that represent a ridiculous state of affairs in terms of developer competance, that's not even a good game to learn those things, try TF2.

The NEX store, they went to NY and hired 7th avenue fashion consultants, just pause right there and think about what the actual problems are/were.

Ambulation and WiS represent something that could not only be an extention of the sandbox we love in FiS but it could bolster it by a great margin. If done with any sense.

Before it was even released at the same AT Soundwave said on air what the concept of WiS meant to him "dressing up dolls" this guy is an idiot with no knowledge of what has been discussed for years or even what WiS was intended to be at all.

Don't blame WiS because you don't understand it, or because CCP didn't/doesn't.

CCP's implementation of Incarna as a NeX storefront at the expense of years of FiS development was an integral part of the overall cause of last year's disaster. That is the reality.

Your theoretical WIS that only you understand is a fantasy. It doesn't exist. Not because players complained about it. Not because it isn't something that would bring more customers. And not because CCP is keeping its development secret. It is because CCP just wasn't able, and is still not able to implement it. For reasons that start with feature planning and end with technical ability and resources availability.

Regrettable, however crying about it on the forum won't help. CCP is a corporation and this will be a business decision. CCP either acquires the right resources and tallent and does all the required work to deliver a quality product to attract new customers, or they don't, because they decide that their core competency gives them solid income from current customers and let's not fix what ain't broke.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2866 - 2012-02-10 19:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Razin you forget that alot of the delay in FiS was due to the carbon project mean to make it much easier for eve to work on and not just Incarna WOD and Dust 514 most of those people inovloved in the other projects you probably dont want to have work on space features at all to begin with anyway It would suck if they had vampires in space.

CCP could have avoided a larger fiasco if they listened like they did post incarna, could have gotten more done with station walking if the left it on the test server. Even possibly more released all of thier internal dev news letters like a blog of the month ordeal but I do understand that this is supposed to be for dev eyes only if they where previously public they wouldnt been so lazy with the comments regarding the internal debates that led to so many fantasizing that ccp was actually going to put gold ammo in. I bet you previous deve letters if ever stolen and made public would have alot of things in them that would make even most veterans turn red with rage if they didnt know this was for dev consumption only.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#2867 - 2012-02-10 19:39:11 UTC
Razin wrote:
Fuee wrote:
Razin wrote:
Fuee wrote:
CCP needs ambulation now more than ever, this is a big year for MMO's and leaning on clicking boxes in space, going back 10 years to tidy up outdated gameplay as a "focus" is going to ruin them.

If the past year showed anything, its that the above isn't just wrong, but that it is fatal for EVE Online.

You guys need to shut up and get in line. According to CCP Greyscale the 0.0/sov rework will take approximately 5 years. There is also low sec and other in-space gameplay work. Maybe you'll get something new after all that has been handled.


I really beg to differ, the Incarna model was clearly the problem and I don't know how anyone could say otherwise. Through the outrage a bunch of newer players who didn't know anything of "ambulation" came to think it was trendy to bash avatars. NEX was the problem CCP's greed was the problem both Soundwave and Hilmar were/are the problem (to some degree). Most of CCP staff which understood the sandbox and WiS left years ago. Who we have left now seem to be largely incompetent. As an example at the end of last years alliance tournament Soundwave announced that he was taking a month vacation, and he was going to spend it by "playing a lot of LoL to learn more about micro-transactions" Not only does that represent a ridiculous state of affairs in terms of developer competance, that's not even a good game to learn those things, try TF2.

The NEX store, they went to NY and hired 7th avenue fashion consultants, just pause right there and think about what the actual problems are/were.

Ambulation and WiS represent something that could not only be an extention of the sandbox we love in FiS but it could bolster it by a great margin. If done with any sense.

Before it was even released at the same AT Soundwave said on air what the concept of WiS meant to him "dressing up dolls" this guy is an idiot with no knowledge of what has been discussed for years or even what WiS was intended to be at all.

Don't blame WiS because you don't understand it, or because CCP didn't/doesn't.

CCP's implementation of Incarna as a NeX storefront at the expense of years of FiS development was an integral part of the overall cause of last year's disaster. That is the reality.

Your theoretical WIS that only you understand is a fantasy. It doesn't exist. Not because players complained about it. Not because it isn't something that would bring more customers. And not because CCP is keeping its development secret. It is because CCP just wasn't able, and is still not able to implement it. For reasons that start with feature planning and end with technical ability and resources availability.

Regrettable, however crying about it on the forum won't help. CCP is a corporation and this will be a business decision. CCP either acquires the right resources and tallent and does all the required work to deliver a quality product to attract new customers, or they don't, because they decide that their core competency gives them solid income from current customers and let's not fix what ain't broke.


So, the distraction from the FiS elements of Eve were not as you stated, WiS and NeX. They were Dust and WoD. What you claim distracted CCP from FiS was a small part of the problem.

As the the rest of the claims, unless you are a CCP employee working on this element of Eve directly it is impossible for you to know what you claim.

While I am skeptical of the technology chosen for ambulation but if there are still 60 folks working on WoD the ambulation engine has to be showing some promise.

Issler
Razin
The Scope
#2868 - 2012-02-10 19:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Razin
Nova Fox wrote:
Razin you forget that alot of the delay in FiS was due to the carbon project mean to make it much easier for eve to work on and not just Incarna WOD and Dust 514 most of those people inovloved in the other projects you probably dont want to have work on space features at all to begin with anyway It would suck if they had vampires in space.


That's just not true. The devs came clean on the development time required for Crucible as a few weeks. (4-6 weeks of actual development time @ CCP Soundwave)

This theory also doesn't work as a reason for the apparent state of WIS. Incarna runs in a separate engine and could have been coded in parallel with 'carbonization' of the FiS client.

p.s. Dust runs in Unreal engine and has nothing to do with EVE/WIS/WoD.

[edit to make clearer]

[edit: added link to source]
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2869 - 2012-02-10 19:44:53 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Razin you forget that alot of the delay in FiS was due to the carbon project mean to make it much easier for eve to work on and not just Incarna WOD and Dust 514 most of those people inovloved in the other projects you probably dont want to have work on space features at all to begin with anyway It would suck if they had vampires in space.


Exactly. The "18 months" took a toll on the development of the visible game, but now CCP is adressing that by giving their love to nullsec issues and devoting 5 developers to do something that should had been done 3 years ago, aka putting some gameplay into WiS before developing WiS.

So first they didn't cooked anything for nobody, then they promised us cake, then they delivered a half-cooked fool-tasting little piece of cake, and now they are cooking bread and cake lovers are being trolled along the forums for asking about our cake.
Razin
The Scope
#2870 - 2012-02-10 20:00:02 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:

So, the distraction from the FiS elements of Eve were not as you stated, WiS and NeX. They were Dust and WoD. What you claim distracted CCP from FiS was a small part of the problem.


Man you are confused. Incarna in it's released form was a demo for WoD (as well as being the NeX storefront). So by definition that is what delayed everything else. This is not a secret and stated as such by CCP management in interviews and other recorded conversations (CSM).

Dust has absolutely nothing to do with any of this as that is a separate dev team in a different country under different contractual obligations.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2871 - 2012-02-10 20:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Razin wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Razin you forget that alot of the delay in FiS was due to the carbon project mean to make it much easier for eve to work on and not just Incarna WOD and Dust 514 most of those people inovloved in the other projects you probably dont want to have work on space features at all to begin with anyway It would suck if they had vampires in space.


That's just not true. The devs came clean on the development time required for Crucible as a few weeks.

This theory also doesn't work as a reason for the apparent state of WIS. Incarna runs in a separate engine and could have been coded in parallel with 'carbonization' of the FiS client.

p.s. Dust runs in Unreal engine and has nothing to do with EVE/WIS/WoD.

[edit to make clearer]


Dust has quite alot to do with eve improvements.

Ever noticed how all the trailers for dust had the new nebula in them LONG before eve had shown them to the public fanfest?

What about planetary graphics 3.0? That too was not only barrowed but stolen from dust 514 development.

Cabonization allows all Four of these games to work with features and improvements. Maybe one day eve will have radioscopic lighiting in space who knows.

Carbon Project itself was just alot of back end rebuidling eve which was well overdue for a 7 year old game with the original programmers no longer at work on the code anymore, Reverse engineering what they've done is extrodinarly a hard task.

And ask yourself honestly if they can do what they did in cruicible in 6 weeks then another 6 weeks for the second half why couldnt they done it for WiS in 18 months, here's a hint not everyone was working on wis at all.

Also in recent interveiws the technologies involved in WoD and Incarna are still seperate. Or'd we get hiar that actually get hair or clothes that collides with the body.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2872 - 2012-02-10 20:13:44 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
wow 144 pages and still going lol


It would probably carry more weight and be much more significant if it wasn't the same half-dozen or so players posting over and over again in this thread speculating, whining and postulating.

But hey, for all the effort they got a 4 man Dev team and a solitary QA guy "commitment" , and some lip service saying CCP will do something with WIS, someday.



Seems there's a few die hard Anti-WiS players still trolling this thread even after CCP responded and verified WiS is here to stay and will be further developed with game play content.

Yes, there's a small team of some very excellent CCP Dev's working on WiS. As with all things, it'll take some time.


What's ironic is seeing you post that reply considering you've done a lot of speculating, whining and postulating in this thread about WiS killing Eve. Obviously some people just won't graciously concede.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Eveliy
Coronize
#2873 - 2012-02-10 20:17:45 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Eveliy wrote:
Fuee wrote:
So DUST soldiers are superior to capsuleers? Thanks CCP


As CCP never said they would give up on WiS or walking capsuleers I think that we will make use of that technology sooner or later, as well.

I'd also not say that they're superior. They can just horribly die more often and everywhere whereas we have all the tools to steer New Eden's greatest ships on our own. :)

Another edit:

That sleeper tech is even able to scan your brain continiously and not only a few momens before your death.



so you remember your own death until the last moment the brains stops?
wow knowing what is going to happen when you die and stil get into that pod on the balcony
Team Avatar could at least change the position of the pod


Nope, you do not remember your own death. Our implants ensure that.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2874 - 2012-02-10 20:17:55 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Stuff


Carbon has absolutely nothing to do with Dust. It's for PC based games and is the foundation for WOD, which was beta tested by EVE players. EVE is Carbon's proving ground for building other PC based games like WOD.

Graphic backgrounds when properly created can be recycled for multiple gaming platforms.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2875 - 2012-02-10 20:20:35 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
wow 144 pages and still going lol


It would probably carry more weight and be much more significant if it wasn't the same half-dozen or so players posting over and over again in this thread speculating, whining and postulating.

But hey, for all the effort they got a 4 man Dev team and a solitary QA guy "commitment" , and some lip service saying CCP will do something with WIS, someday.



Seems there's a few die hard Anti-WiS players still trolling this thread even after CCP responded and verified WiS is here to stay and will be further developed with game play content.

Yes, there's a small team of some very excellent CCP Dev's working on WiS. As with all things, it'll take some time.


What's ironic is seeing you post that reply considering you've done a lot of speculating, whining and postulating in this thread about WiS killing Eve. Obviously some people just won't graciously concede.



I've done no such thing, you have me confused with someone else. I'm one of those players who could care less about WIS as long as FIS does not suffer for it.

Please try to keep up.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Razin
The Scope
#2876 - 2012-02-10 20:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Razin
Nova Fox wrote:
Razin wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Razin you forget that alot of the delay in FiS was due to the carbon project mean to make it much easier for eve to work on and not just Incarna WOD and Dust 514 most of those people inovloved in the other projects you probably dont want to have work on space features at all to begin with anyway It would suck if they had vampires in space.


That's just not true. The devs came clean on the development time required for Crucible as a few weeks.

This theory also doesn't work as a reason for the apparent state of WIS. Incarna runs in a separate engine and could have been coded in parallel with 'carbonization' of the FiS client.

p.s. Dust runs in Unreal engine and has nothing to do with EVE/WIS/WoD.

[edit to make clearer]


Dust has quite alot to do with eve improvements.

Ever noticed how all the trailers for dust had the new nebula in them LONG before eve had shown them to the public fanfest?

What about planetary graphics 3.0? That too was not only barrowed but stolen from dust 514 development.

Cabonization allows all Four of these games to work with features and improvements. Maybe one day eve will have radioscopic lighiting in space who knows.

Carbon Project itself was just alot of back end rebuidling eve which was well overdue for a 7 year old game with the original programmers no longer at work on the code anymore, Reverse engineering what they've done is extrodinarly a hard task.

And ask yourself honestly if they can do what they did in cruicible in 6 weeks then another 6 weeks for the second half why couldnt they done it for WiS in 18 months, here's a hint not everyone was working on wis at all.

Lol at your dust trailer argument. All that tells us is that the new nebulas were ready back then and were just laying aroung on someone's hd all of this time waiting for CCP CEO to pull his head out of where the sun don't shine.

The rest of your arguments would have sounded pretty reasonable had CCP not provided the break-down of team sizes and priorities for the different 'EVE-related' projects a couple of years ago, as well as official statements made last year. As it stands, however, you are in contradiction with reality.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2877 - 2012-02-10 20:24:49 UTC
Razin wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Razin wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Razin you forget that alot of the delay in FiS was due to the carbon project mean to make it much easier for eve to work on and not just Incarna WOD and Dust 514 most of those people inovloved in the other projects you probably dont want to have work on space features at all to begin with anyway It would suck if they had vampires in space.


That's just not true. The devs came clean on the development time required for Crucible as a few weeks.

This theory also doesn't work as a reason for the apparent state of WIS. Incarna runs in a separate engine and could have been coded in parallel with 'carbonization' of the FiS client.

p.s. Dust runs in Unreal engine and has nothing to do with EVE/WIS/WoD.

[edit to make clearer]


Dust has quite alot to do with eve improvements.

Ever noticed how all the trailers for dust had the new nebula in them LONG before eve had shown them to the public fanfest?

What about planetary graphics 3.0? That too was not only barrowed but stolen from dust 514 development.

Cabonization allows all Four of these games to work with features and improvements. Maybe one day eve will have radioscopic lighiting in space who knows.

Carbon Project itself was just alot of back end rebuidling eve which was well overdue for a 7 year old game with the original programmers no longer at work on the code anymore, Reverse engineering what they've done is extrodinarly a hard task.

And ask yourself honestly if they can do what they did in cruicible in 6 weeks then another 6 weeks for the second half why couldnt they done it for WiS in 18 months, here's a hint not everyone was working on wis at all.

Lol at your dust trailer argument. All that tells us is that the new nebulas were ready back then and were just laying aroung on someone's hd all of this time waiting for CCP CEO to pull his head out of where the sun don't shine.

The rest of your arguments would have sounded pretty reasonable had CCP not provided the break-down of team sizes and priorities for the different 'EVE-related' projects a couple of years ago, as well as official statements made last year. As it stands, however, you are in contradiction with reality.


They didnt have all 200 employees at ccp working on WiS last time I checked the numbers during that time.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Razin
The Scope
#2878 - 2012-02-10 20:41:23 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:

They didnt have all 200 employees at ccp working on WiS last time I checked the numbers during that time.

According to CCP it was 70 developers during the summer of 2010 (the start of '18 months'). I'll bet you the numbers ramped up towards deployment, especially when it became painfully clear that the team couldn't keep to schedule.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2879 - 2012-02-10 20:50:37 UTC
Zirse wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
Zirse wrote:

I think everyone can somewhat agree that ambulation in the future would be great for eve.

The issue is that right now it deserves 0 resources because the core of the game, the game that we all signed up for, is still in dire need of a myriad of overhauls. And yes, right ow FiS IS the core of the game so please spare me the 'simulator' **** until the EVE experience actually backs that up.

CCP can and should revisit ambulation in ~5 years when eve is on firm ground and the tech can actually support it.


Fortunately. CCP does not share your view - that we should wait 5 plus years for Incarna. Nor do many players.


lol ok.


I will be waiting here with my told you so.


Ahhh, please do wait for a chance to say that. You'll be waiting forever.

In the meantime here's a really big 'Told you so' from all the Pro-WiS players due to CCP stating that WiS content is being developed.


Doc Fury wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


Seems there's a few die hard Anti-WiS players still trolling this thread even after CCP responded and verified WiS is here to stay and will be further developed with game play content.

Yes, there's a small team of some very excellent CCP Dev's working on WiS. As with all things, it'll take some time.


What's ironic is seeing you post that reply considering you've done a lot of speculating, whining and postulating in this thread about WiS killing Eve. Obviously some people just won't graciously concede.



I've done no such thing, you have me confused with someone else. I'm one of those players who could care less about WIS as long as FIS does not suffer for it.

Please try to keep up.


No, I don't have you confused with anyone else and Yes you have done a lot of Anti-Wis posturing while speculating on it's future along with whining how it's destroying Eve.

If you really didn't care you wouldn't be here trolling this thread. Plain and simple.

By the way, don't even bother saying that you're here to remind CCP to continue concentrating on FiS content.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2880 - 2012-02-10 21:03:59 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


No, I don't have you confused with anyone else and Yes you have done a lot of Anti-Wis posturing while speculating on it's future along with whining how it's destroying Eve.

If you really didn't care you wouldn't be here trolling this thread. Plain and simple.

By the way, don't even bother saying that you're here to remind CCP to continue concentrating on FiS content.


I'm here "trolling" idiots like you that think you are gonna get 1/10 of what you expect from WIS in the next year and feel smug/justified that whining got you some lip service, 4 token Devs and a QA guy who are working on "something".

If pointing out the truth that taking 18-months away from FIS development, spending 4+ years building and then delivering a ham-fisted cash shop and a Captain's Closet was bad for the game (via subscriptions) in general makes me anti-WIS than I am guilty as charged.

I'll state it again: No WIS at the expense of FIS.





☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.