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Nerfing Caldari?

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Cardinal Raw
#421 - 2012-02-04 01:31:44 UTC
Tithi wrote:
I don't care if they change drakes. They do everything, all the time, everywhere. Of course the people who fly them love them. Why wouldn't they? THEY DO EVERYTHING WELL. They are easily the most FOTY, ubiquitous BC and I'm frankly tired of seeing them everywhere.


I agree and think the same thing of the tengu and hurricane.

Tithi wrote:

A case can be made that other caldari options are too weak so the drake needs to be OP to compensate. I'm fine with this attitude, because at least you are admitting the truth about the drake.


The drake shouldn't be OP to compensate, but the caldari t2 linup is pretty bad and the t1 lineup is absolutely horrid (aside from the drake) BC+ and mediocre BC down. The harpy going from average to ridiculous will only slow the fail-train a short while.
Alara IonStorm
#422 - 2012-02-04 02:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Cardinal Raw wrote:

The drake shouldn't be OP to compensate, but the caldari t2 linup is pretty bad and the t1 lineup is absolutely horrid (aside from the drake) BC+ and mediocre BC down. The harpy going from average to ridiculous will only slow the fail-train a short while.

Lucky that HAC's, Cruisers and Frigates are getting a second look as per the CSM Minutes. The Rokh and Scorpion are actually in a pretty good place right now as well.

If Caldari HAC's get the same treatment as Assault Ships and the T1 Line Up is redone Caldair might just be in the best shape it has ever been. They also acknowledged the Ferox as deficient along with the other Tier 1's and will be looking into that.

The Caldari Recon, HIC, Logi, Assault Ships, Cov Ops, EWAR are in good Shape so HAC's are the real deciding factor on the Caldari T2 front. Raptor could use some work as well.

So far the Rocket Change, the Hawk, Assault Ships and Hybrid Changes have been significant Improvements so I will stay optimistic about the HAC, Frig, Cruiser work that is coming and how it will effect Caldari.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#423 - 2012-02-04 21:43:50 UTC
Has anybody noticed that the majority of the "don't touch my Drake" crowd seems to be Empire mouth breathers mission runners, and EFT warriors? The noteable exception being Tippa, and a few others, who actually have a few brain cells rubbing together, and put some thought into what the changes would do.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Denuo Secus
#424 - 2012-02-04 22:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Denuo Secus
I don't really understand why this Drake change is considered as nerf by some people. In fact it's a great boost. Only one thing is affected in a negative way: lvl4 mission running. Something a BC isn't really a good tool for. When I did lvl4 missions I switched to BS class asap, just to get the job done with some efficiency.

Also, 'Newb friendliness' isn't a role for a BC.

In addition CCP confirmed a T1 cruiser, tier1 BC and command ship boost. A Myrm and Eos boost on top! YAY? Cool
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#425 - 2012-02-05 01:44:59 UTC
Change the cerb if you're going to make the drake a cerb, but cheaper and better. (drake currently is a nighthawk, but cheaper) Also, give nighthawk a slight PG boost and a midslot :)


Hopefully the t1 cruisers and teir 1 BC get some love.
Erisia Malaclypse
The Discordian Echo
#426 - 2012-02-05 13:51:22 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Please keep in mind these notes date back from December, and as such some points may have evolved as we are gathering more data with time.
  • Overshadows tech 2 counterparts: Heavy Assault Ships and Command Ships are suffering from this situation. This is most apparent with the Nighthawk, but any ship that shares a common role with them is affected. Why take the time to train up and pay for an expensive hull when there is an easy to get into and cheap option available that almost have the same performance?

  • Incorrectly funnel new players: don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP. What's the point of a Bellicose? Exequror? Maller? Moa? They shouldn't be things you just skip on the way to a greater purpose, like a leaf of salad in my 250gr double-layered onion and egg hamburger.



    • This is the kind of bollocks thinking that afflicts ALL devs across ALL MMOs and ruins every game, eventually.

    You should not 'nerf' things to balance them, you should BUFF the other ships so people actually want to fly them.

    I am sick and tired of useless, idle, sub-par devs nerfing things in games because they cannot be arsed to, oh - I don't know - maybe, make the game FUN??

    How about you try remembering that we PAY to have some FUN here? /rant
    OT Smithers
    A Farewell To Kings...
    Dock Workers
    #427 - 2012-02-05 15:42:43 UTC
    Tithi wrote:
    I don't care if they change drakes. They do everything, all the time, everywhere. Of course the people who fly them love them. Why wouldn't they? THEY DO EVERYTHING WELL. They are easily the most FOTY, ubiquitous BC and I'm frankly tired of seeing them everywhere.

    If you drake pilots that are whining about this can't understand that this is a problem, then you are blind. I'm sorry but deal with it gracefully, please. It happens to everyone's favorite ship from time to time.

    A case can be made that other caldari options are too weak so the drake needs to be OP to compensate. I'm fine with this attitude, because at least you are admitting the truth about the drake.


    And yet many of us who can fly the other BC's, and make our selection based on the performance of the ship, do not choose the drake as our ship of choice.

    The idea that the Drake is currently overpowered is ludicrous. When it comes to PvP it is good at everything, true, but then so is every other tech 2 BC in the game -- so this is hardly a reason for a nerf.
    OT Smithers
    A Farewell To Kings...
    Dock Workers
    #428 - 2012-02-05 15:47:54 UTC
    Denuo Secus wrote:
    I don't really understand why this Drake change is considered as nerf by some people. In fact it's a great boost. Only one thing is affected in a negative way: lvl4 mission running. Something a BC isn't really a good tool for. When I did lvl4 missions I switched to BS class asap, just to get the job done with some efficiency.

    Also, 'Newb friendliness' isn't a role for a BC.

    In addition CCP confirmed a T1 cruiser, tier1 BC and command ship boost. A Myrm and Eos boost on top! YAY? Cool


    In some ways it will be a much NEEDED boost. However, losing 25% resist across the board on a ship that ALWAYS applies it's damage last is pretty significant. And we are talking about CCP here, when it comes to devoting attention to balance in theor own game they have a deplorable track record. It takes them years to fix anything.
    Mortimer Civeri
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #429 - 2012-02-05 16:41:01 UTC
    Erisia Malaclypse wrote:
    You should not 'nerf' things to balance them, you should BUFF the other ships so people actually want to fly them.

    I am sick and tired of useless, idle, sub-par devs nerfing things in games because they cannot be arsed to, oh - I don't know - maybe, make the game FUN??

    How about you try remembering that we PAY to have some FUN here? /rant


    By that thinking eventually Frigates will have the EHP of titans and small guns/rockets will have the power of a doomsday. Nerfs are essential to reign in the eventual power creep such a system as "buff everything else to match" would entail. EvE has lasted through many nerfs (speed, and nano nerf to name but two) so I have to take your comments as hysterical hyperbole. It is the "Oh noes 'dey nefi'n 'da {iinsert item/ship here}, Eve is die'n!!!1!11!one" chicken Littles I can't stand. HTFU, or GTFO.

    "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
    Sarah Schneider
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #430 - 2012-02-05 19:42:18 UTC
    Cardinal Raw wrote:
    Tithi wrote:
    I don't care if they change drakes. They do everything, all the time, everywhere. Of course the people who fly them love them. Why wouldn't they? THEY DO EVERYTHING WELL. They are easily the most FOTY, ubiquitous BC and I'm frankly tired of seeing them everywhere.


    I agree and think the same thing of the tengu and hurricane.

    Excellent! why don't we just remove the whole Caldari race altogether then. Big smile

    "I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
    Tippia
    Sunshine and Lollipops
    #431 - 2012-02-05 19:46:49 UTC
    Erisia Malaclypse wrote:
    This is the kind of bollocks thinking that afflicts ALL devs across ALL MMOs and ruins every game, eventually.

    You should not 'nerf' things to balance them, you should BUFF the other ships so people actually want to fly them.
    Yes you should, that's why you see it everywhere. The alternative is power creep that makes the game more and more impossible to balance properly.

    Nerfing attacks the problem; buffing everything else makes everything a problem. Guess which of the two paths actually has a chance of fixing anything.

    Nerfing is good.