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Help! New Miner!

Author
Toshiro GreyHawk
#41 - 2012-01-31 10:13:34 UTC
Sola Mercury wrote:
Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:


great freak out Big smile




Dont be so rude with him..
He's the one ninja mining in a Hulk in w-space with an open HS hole.Roll




Simplistic smart Asses - who are rude to others - **** me off and deserve rudeness.


The standard miner path is rookie ship -> mining frigate -> mining Cruiser -> Retriever -> Hulk.

That's what most people do - and that's fine.

The thing is - you don't HAVE to do that. If you have a REASON for varying the path - then as long as you understand what you are doing and why you are doing it - well now ... it's YOUR career isn't it? Other people telling you to just do things the way they do them - are not going to be the ones paying the consequences of what you do - YOU are.

The thing that's important - is understanding what you're doing and why you're doing it.



One thing that makes a lot of difference - is if you're running a mining op with multiple accounts.

If you're running multiple accounts - there's often no need for a new character to train cruisers. If you need someone in cruisers you may already have them.

Including a mining Frigate in a mining op you alone are running - doesn't work terribly well - because it's holds are to small, will fill up to fast and you'll have to retarget your lasers, which slows down your cycle moving around from one miner to another. Here - a Procurer - really helps as the cargo hold is big enough to hold the rocks until you cycle around your characters to them.

When your up and coming miner gets into a Retriever - you can stow the Procurer in the back of the corporate hangar until someone else has a use for it.

One thing I've done with them on occasion was stick them in a research station to periodically fetch some ore for the research agent. One trip to the belts in a Procurer and you're set for a good long time.

Another use for them - is in more dangerous situations where you don't want to risk a more valuable ship. Procurers are fairly agile as well ... for a mining barge.

Mining AFK in industrials - can actually pull in quite a bit of ore using multiple accounts - while you're doing something else, such as running missions or vaccuming the house. It is, in any case, a lot more ore than the NOTHING you would get if you couldn't sit down and monitor the miners. Take a fully trained miner, a Miner II, several MLU's in the lows and an ore scanner in the mids and you can mine a good bit, especially if you've got multiple characters doing it. Mining AFK is perfectly legal. As long as you manually control the ships - there's nothing wrong with that.


Many new people starting out - aren't going to have multiple accounts - but - if they are going to make their career in mining - it is a good thing to understand some of the advantages of having multiple accounts and some of the things that may make a difference in how you want to do things. Also - not everyone is in a corporation - but for those that are - there may well be a different way of doing things for those in corporations - than those out on their own. My point above about Covetors vs. Hulks comes to mind here.


In any case - what a person needs to do - is come to understand the game and all the different options you have available to you. In many cases - some options won't apply - but in others they may. Be aware of your options and exercise them at your descretion.

Never just blindly do something because that's what everyone else is doing or because someone on the forums (including me) told you to. Think about what it is they're telling you to do. Understand WHY they are doing it and IF that is the best course for you.



*shrug*

.

Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-02-02 05:27:11 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jacob Stiller wrote:
My advice is to stop your mining career this instant. It is the lowest isk/hour earner in the game thanks to competition from refineable drops and botters (i.e. those who automate masses of mining characters by hacking the game and writing scripts). Most players are best off earning isk by ratting, running missions, and/or running incursions. If you want to graduate to something more advanced, there's trading, production, and exploration.



Lowest ISK/hour earned in High Sec is Anomalies. (High sec Drone droppings? Really ???) Your statement here was just flat-out false.

Running Incursions is a money maker after the past 3 weeks ?? Read the news......

Production requires minerals, better gotten by your own hand to be REALLY efficient....or is running 25 jumps and back to Jita for them more efficient ??

Half of Exploration involves finding and mining valuable ores.

I'm just SAYIN'...........


Mission loot worth less than its mineral value and null sec drone regions are major sources of minerals that miners have to compete with. Out of curiosity whether your statement has any basis at all, I imported this character into Eve Isk Per Hour. The first time I tried this game with him, I spent a good chunk of my three months skilling him for flying a retriever and refining ore.

Even with the current spike in mineral prices, it seems the best he can earn mining in high sec is less than 6.3 million per hour. This is assuming someone is hauling for him, which requires connections with other players or a second account. However, a newbie could train for a drake mission fit in less than 2 weeks and make a good deal more than that after LP conversion soloing level 3's.

I've seen people claim averaging good earnings from high-sec exploration through faction drops from radar and mag sites. I guess if you intentionally tried you could make worse earnings than mining in high sec. Like trying to rat in public high sec belts, falling for Jita scams, or failing at trading.

I'm not trying to be jackass by discouraging newbie miners. I'm trying to do them a service by point them toward something more lucrative and entertaining. Mining drove me to quit for 9 months initially.
Toshiro GreyHawk
#43 - 2012-02-02 11:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk
I wonder what the statistics are on new players who've gotten into a Drake in two weeks, spending every penny they had to buy it, got it blown up because they were flying a hollow ship without the skills to suppor it, not to mentino having no idea what they were doing - and then quit?

How many others have worked their way up to doing Level IV Missions, replacing their mission ships as they got them blown up until they eventually learned how not to do that - and then - having reached the peak of their profession, realized that they were nothing but some NPC's lackey - whatever level of mission they were running or how often they'd run them - and then quit?

Of course - since this is an MMO and most of the people who have come here from other MMO's are used to running Quests (I use the term to make a point) being some NPC's lackey is nothing new to them. Given the fact that this game is over run with mission runners ... grinding missions to make ISK rather than to make levels ... having some NPC telling them what to do must not be a prohibative factor.

I think that what a lot of miners do as they move on in their EVE career is to gradually become industrialists. There's a good deal of thought that has to go into making some of the higher end items in the game and they may find that more interesting than grinding missions. As with anyone, almost, grinding missions is a way of life in EVE as Missions => standings so we've pretty much all done it.

Of course - I think that most industrialists who stick with the game gradually become business people as trading is how you turn your product into ISK.

Of couruse - I could be wrong.

As for people who fail at industry and trading falling back to something like Mission Running ... yeah ... for those that can't hack it - I can see that happening. After all - you don't have to think for yourself - you've got some NPC telling you what to do - I'd imagine that would appeal to people who are intellectually challenged. They can also point to the size of their wallet to sooth their egos pointing out to anyone who'll listen how big their's is ...


If someone wants to be a Mission Runner - and put up with NPC's telling them what to do - and running the same damn missions over and over and over and over and over and over ... what the hell - have at it.


Now ... if you've got players whose real interest in the game is PVP - and their characters are all skilled up to blow up other ships - then yeah - running missions to support your PVP makes a lot of sense, even it is a lot of drudge work. But then - your goal in the game isn't simply to make ISK - but to use that ISK to support something else. For those people - Mission Running may well be worth it.



There is more to the game than just making ISK. If someone doesn't want to be a miner because they find it boring - then THAT is a good reason not to be a miner. But if you enjoy miing - switching to something else ... like Mission Running ... just because you think it makes more money - may well be a mistake.


Also ... ISK/Hr ... however it's judged - is pretty much a worthless indicator. There are to many variables for how one person calculates it for it to have any relevance to another person who doesn't have the exact same play style. You can judge how much you make per hour and look at how changes in strategy change your income but comparing it to anyone else is a waste of time.


.
TheBlueMonkey
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#44 - 2012-02-02 13:42:56 UTC
Train for a hurricane, then train T2 medium auto cannons.
Then go and shoot at other players.

It's way more interesting and if you're any good, it'll make you more money.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#45 - 2012-02-02 14:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Jacob Stiller wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jacob Stiller wrote:
My advice is to stop your mining career this instant. It is the lowest isk/hour earner in the game thanks to competition from refineable drops and botters (i.e. those who automate masses of mining characters by hacking the game and writing scripts). Most players are best off earning isk by ratting, running missions, and/or running incursions. If you want to graduate to something more advanced, there's trading, production, and exploration.



Lowest ISK/hour earned in High Sec is Anomalies. (High sec Drone droppings? Really ???) Your statement here was just flat-out false.

Running Incursions is a money maker after the past 3 weeks ?? Read the news......

Production requires minerals, better gotten by your own hand to be REALLY efficient....or is running 25 jumps and back to Jita for them more efficient ??

Half of Exploration involves finding and mining valuable ores.

I'm just SAYIN'...........


SNIP

Even with the current spike in mineral prices, it seems the best he can earn mining in high sec is less than 6.3 million per hour.



You are doing something horribly wrong. My Orca fills in 30 minutes and that's 22,000,000 of Pyrox. With one Hulk it's still the 22,000,000/hour. Make that a Jasp/Hemo/hedberg site and it's 28,000,000 or around 58,000,000 / hour. If that's from "The Score" mission....more like 75,000,000 for the lot.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-02-02 15:01:49 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jacob Stiller wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jacob Stiller wrote:
My advice is to stop your mining career this instant. It is the lowest isk/hour earner in the game thanks to competition from refineable drops and botters (i.e. those who automate masses of mining characters by hacking the game and writing scripts). Most players are best off earning isk by ratting, running missions, and/or running incursions. If you want to graduate to something more advanced, there's trading, production, and exploration.



Lowest ISK/hour earned in High Sec is Anomalies. (High sec Drone droppings? Really ???) Your statement here was just flat-out false.

Running Incursions is a money maker after the past 3 weeks ?? Read the news......

Production requires minerals, better gotten by your own hand to be REALLY efficient....or is running 25 jumps and back to Jita for them more efficient ??

Half of Exploration involves finding and mining valuable ores.

I'm just SAYIN'...........


SNIP

Even with the current spike in mineral prices, it seems the best he can earn mining in high sec is less than 6.3 million per hour.



You are doing something horribly wrong. My Orca fills in 30 minutes and that's 22,000,000 of Pyrox. With one Hulk it's still the 22,000,000/hour. Make that a Jasp/Hemo/hedberg site and it's 28,000,000 or around 58,000,000 / hour. If that's from "The Score" mission....more like 75,000,000 for the lot.


For the love of Cthulhu, he can only fly a Retriever, which is fair to compare to a BC flying lvl III's. If you want to compare a hulk to anything, it would be a BS running lvl IV's. If you want to compare orca boosted mining fleets, then you're talking about fleets of BS's blitzing level IV's or running level V's or incursions.

In any case, I really don't care how much a missioner or a miner can make. I can beat them all, except maybe one of those legendary shiny incursion runners, through trading and manufacturing. I just don't recommend that to the average player as most players lack either the patience, the aptitude, or both to make it work.
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