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Fat Nugs
The Abdication Corporation
#1 - 2012-01-31 16:57:25 UTC
As a concerned EvE subscriber i want to know why PVP is being made MORE optional than before by lowering/removing the session change timer and -

1. Essentially making kickout stations not kickouts anymore.. why were the stations even designed like this if not to be a more risky place to live?
2. No more station games, as gay as they are sometimes its the only PVP people will partake in because PVP IS 100% CONSENSUAL AND THIS IS ONLY MAKING IT WORSE.

Are CCP trying to ruin PVP? seems like it.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#2 - 2012-01-31 17:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
You're fooling yourself if you think station games are PvP. They are the only thing that is really affected by the session timer change. Hopefully with no session change timer, they will become more and more futile until they become obsolete and nobody bothers with them anymore, as it will be impossible to kill even a frigate non-consensually.

I suggest you get off of that hisec station undock and find some PvP elsewhere.

Edit: It just occurred to me, you might be confusing session change timer with aggression re-dock timer. The latter has not changed. If someone shoots you, they still have to wait the old length of time to re-dock.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-01-31 17:08:22 UTC
The session change timer was - simply put - poor code,
which - as a dev stated - is pretty embarrassing for them.
That's why it's getting lowered, until it is gone forever.

The invulnerability timer is there because it happened too often that
too many ships undocked at the same time (i.e. Jita), which results
in traffic jams right at undock.

Oh and ... Station "PvP" is, per se, ruined already.
There's no reason to support cowards who do that.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-01-31 17:09:23 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
You're fooling yourself if you think station games are PvP. They are the only thing that is really affected by the session timer change. Hopefully with no session change timer, they will become more and more futile until they become obsolete and nobody bothers with them anymore, as it will be impossible to kill even a frigate non-consensually.

I suggest you get off of that hisec station undock and find some PvP elsewhere.

Edit: It just occurred to me, you might be confusing session change timer with aggression re-dock timer. The latter has not changed. If someone shoots you, they still have to wait the old length of time to re-dock.


Which reminds me ... didn't CCP state that they will change that stupid mechanic,
so that the cowards can't go and hide after a minute ?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#5 - 2012-01-31 17:09:37 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
The session change timer was - simply put - poor code,
which - as a dev stated - is pretty embarrassing for them.
That's why it's getting lowered, until it is gone forever.

The invulnerability timer is there because it happened too often that
too many ships undocked at the same time (i.e. Jita), which results
in traffic jams right at undock.

Oh and ... Station "PvP" is, per se, ruined already.
There's no reason to support cowards who do that.


Your post is formatted like a poem, and I started looking for its meter. I was sad when I couldn't find it. Why would you do this to me Sad

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#6 - 2012-01-31 17:10:57 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
You're fooling yourself if you think station games are PvP. They are the only thing that is really affected by the session timer change. Hopefully with no session change timer, they will become more and more futile until they become obsolete and nobody bothers with them anymore, as it will be impossible to kill even a frigate non-consensually.

I suggest you get off of that hisec station undock and find some PvP elsewhere.

Edit: It just occurred to me, you might be confusing session change timer with aggression re-dock timer. The latter has not changed. If someone shoots you, they still have to wait the old length of time to re-dock.


Which reminds me ... didn't CCP state that they will change that stupid mechanic,
so that the cowards can't go and hide after a minute ?


I don't recall them saying they will change it, but there are multiple cries for lengthening aggro timers for bigger ships so things like carrier docking games aren't feasible anymore.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-01-31 17:22:12 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Your post is formatted like a poem, and I started looking for its meter. I was sad when I couldn't find it. Why would you do this to me Sad


I know ... i'm sorry. Genuinely.
I'm used to writing like that in german,
which makes it much easier for me to write with a "melody" behind my words. :(

Also ... as of yet, nobody has managed to teach me iambic pentameter
and the tutorials i have found (i.e. Wikipedia) don't help me at all. :(

Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I don't recall them saying they will change it, but there are multiple cries for lengthening aggro timers for bigger ships so things like carrier docking games aren't feasible anymore.


I thought it would come with the change in the 15min-aggro-vanish-timer, but it seems it didn't.
I'm still hoping for it, because some special guy in hek needs to get his ass kicked numerous times. :)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#8 - 2012-01-31 17:50:06 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Your post is formatted like a poem, and I started looking for its meter. I was sad when I couldn't find it. Why would you do this to me Sad


I know ... i'm sorry. Genuinely.
I'm used to writing like that in german,
which makes it much easier for me to write with a "melody" behind my words. :(

Also ... as of yet, nobody has managed to teach me iambic pentameter
and the tutorials i have found (i.e. Wikipedia) don't help me at all. :(


Iambic pentameter is just a meter in which every line has 5 "iambs". An iamb is a sequence of two syllables in which the second has more "accent" or "weight" to it than the first. For example:

Quote:
Iambs are not that hard to understand.

... is in iambic pentameter, as spoken, it sounds like:

Quote:
(i-AMBS) (are NOT) (that HARD) (to UN)-(der-STAND).


It does not need to be forced, but rather comes from the words themselves and how the phrase flows. In other words, when actually reciting such a line, you don't actually need to think about the iambs.

To use a real Shakespearian example, here's a snippet of Romeo's monologue before drinking the poison:

Quote:
Come, bitter conduct, come, unsavoury guide!
Thou desperate pilot, now at once run on
The dashing rocks thy sea-sick weary bark!
Here's to my love!


See if you can spot the iambic pentameter.

Note: this thread is now about iambic pentameter. Much more worthy a topic.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Serene Repose
#9 - 2012-01-31 18:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Solstice Project wrote:
...Also ... as of yet, nobody has managed to teach me iambic pentameter
and the tutorials i have found (i.e. Wikipedia) don't help me at all. :(


Iambic pentameter is really pretty easy...unless you want to include "good" to describe the resulting poem.

First, the iamb - unstressed syllable followed by a stressed one:

we WANT to STRESS this FINE toDAY will ONly BE a ONE-time THING.

ta DA ta DA ta DA ta DA - one "ta DA" is an iamb.

Sonnets are written in Iambic Pentameter. So many people decided to write sonnets as a form they've become as stale as chewing a stick of gum too long, but for a good example, check out the master himself - Willie the Shake

So...pentameter

Pent = 5. (Pentagon.....five-sided figure.)
Meter = length of a line in a poem measured in "feet".
(one meter = five feet for iambic pentameter)


So, count the iamb as a "foot". ta DA = one foot.

ta DA ta DA ta DA ta DA ta DA

five "ta DAs" for a meter.

Iambic Pentameter.

easy peasy

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-01-31 18:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Guess we hijacked the thread.

Thanks for your help!

Anyway ... this reads more like it's a thing of sound,
but how can FINE be hard ?

It's confusing me... and i can't do it in german either.

Sadly, i'm not able to read old style shakespear-level english.
Most words are way beyond my knowledge.


Quote:
Come, bitter conduct, come, unsavoury guide!
Thou desperate pilot, now at once run on
The dashing rocks thy sea-sick weary bark!
Here's to my love!

uhm ............ i have no idea ...........
Come to think of it, i can't count syllables in english...
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-01-31 18:25:44 UTC

My question is, how do i know the wording beforehand ?

Not talking about speaking consciously, that's not the problem ...
... the problem is knowing which word fits in.

There are only limited ways of expressing anything,
so how can it work ? How do i know which words fit ?

Or is it really just done by "sound" ?
How can one then spot written iambic pentameter ?

I realize that i'm missing the right questions for the answers i need...
Serene Repose
#12 - 2012-01-31 18:25:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Solstice Project wrote:
Guess we hijacked the thread.

Thanks for your help!

Anyway ... this reads more like it's a thing of sound,
but how can FINE be hard ?

It's confusing me... and i can't do it in german either.

Sadly, i'm not able to read old style shakespear-level english.
Most words are way beyond my knowledge.


Quote:
Come, bitter conduct, come, unsavoury guide!
Thou desperate pilot, now at once run on
The dashing rocks thy sea-sick weary bark!
Here's to my love!

uhm ............ i have no idea ...........
Come to think of it, i can't count syllables in english...


That's definitely the stuff. I read you five by five. Blink

The most difficult thing I've tried in writing is to write a sonnet obeying all the rules. (Google for those.) It takes a VERY long time unless something just comes to you out of the blue. It is a word search from the get-go, as well. I know what I want to say, but you have to hammer it into that frame. For sonnets, the rhyme scheme is critical as well. You have to end them with a rhyming couplet for the classic sonnet.

Ain't gonna slip trippingly off the tongue. Get out a large hammer and be ready for some gut-wrenching punishment. When you pull it off, though. It's an accomplishment. Imagine: the idea + the poem structure = art. Shakespeare doesn't have many rivals in this game.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#13 - 2012-01-31 18:33:19 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

Quote:
Come, bitter conduct, come, unsavoury guide!
Thou desperate pilot, now at once run on
The dashing rocks thy sea-sick weary bark!
Here's to my love!

uhm ............ i have no idea ...........
Come to think of it, i can't count syllables in english...


I actually just left the exercise up to you because I hit the max number of quotes in my post. P

Quote:
Come, BIT-ter CON-duct, COME, un-SAV'ry GUIDE!
Thou DES-p'rate PI-lot, NOW at ONCE run ON
The DASH-ing ROCKS thy SEA-sick WEA-ry BARK!
Here's TO my LOVE!


Old English sometimes mashes together pronounciations, which doesn't really help if you're trying to just get iambic pentameter. Stuff like pronouncing "desperate" like "desprate" is quite unintuitive, but it's how they pronounced it apparently v0v

Solstice Project wrote:
My question is, how do i know the wording beforehand ?

Not talking about speaking consciously, that's not the problem ...
... the problem is knowing which word fits in.

There are only limited ways of expressing anything,
so how can it work ? How do i know which words fit ?

Or is it really just done by "sound" ?
How can one then spot written iambic pentameter ?


It's hard to write or read iambic pentameter, since it really is identified only by sound. It comes down to what Serene said. You need to be able to hear it in your mind, and be ready to hammer at the words for a long time.

That, or have a quiet room where nobody can hear you mumble or talk to yourself while you work on it. This especially even gives you the appearance of being an artist.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-01-31 19:02:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Serene Repose wrote:
Shakespeare doesn't have many rivals in this game.


Challenge accepted.

I managed to write in rhymes ONLY (in german, though) after half an hour of
forcing my brain to do it by activating both hemispheres for each word,
but that drops the words/sec significantly. Conscious writing, though ... awesome.

Err ... nevermind that.

So ... Petrus ...

As you've searched for a meter in my words,
how can you know there was none ...
if iambic pentameter, as example, can't really be read anyway ?

Still confusing ................

Confusion ... last step before enlightenment. :)

edit:
I mean ... you say one can hear it in their minds, but how can the word FINE (see above)
be a hard sound, as it only has soft sounding letters ?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#15 - 2012-01-31 19:07:30 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

So ... Petrus ...

As you've searched for a meter in my words,
how can you know there was none ...
if iambic pentameter, as example, can't really be read anyway ?

Still confusing ................

Confusion ... last step before enlightenment. :)

edit:
I mean ... you say one can hear it in their minds, but how can the word FINE (see above)
be a hard sound, as it only has soft sounding letters ?


It's not a "hard" sound, but rather a prolongued or louder sound than the other vowels. Also, "As you've searched for a meter in my words" is in iambic pentameter, good job P

Yes, I do try to read it in my mind, and sometimes exaggerating the emphases on the words puts them more into evidence, so when I re-read the whole thing, it's easier to spot the meter.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#16 - 2012-01-31 19:08:21 UTC
It would be better to get someone who studies English to explain, though. I'm a Computer Science guy, and am just trying to draw off knowledge I gained 5-6 years ago in an English class.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-01-31 19:09:18 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Also, "As you've searched for a meter in my words" is in iambic pentameter, good job P


Really ? O_o

Great ! :D

WHY ????

I don't see ANY correlation to "I am a pirate with a wooden leg" ...
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-01-31 19:10:47 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
It would be better to get someone who studies English to explain, though. I'm a Computer Science guy, and am just trying to draw off knowledge I gained 5-6 years ago in an English class.


That really doesn't matter to me ... every help is appreciated and noobs have it easier talking to noobs. ^^
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#19 - 2012-01-31 19:14:21 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Also, "As you've searched for a meter in my words" is in iambic pentameter, good job P


Really ? O_o

Great ! :D

WHY ????

I don't see ANY correlation to "I am a pirate with a wooden leg" ...

It would be far easier to explain this over an aural medium rather than a text-only forum.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-01-31 19:16:51 UTC
hm ... can't offer anything except this forum.

i'm scanning youtube now.

You two gave me quite a boost and some help !

Also, that you said i made a sentence in iambic pentameter helps too ! :D

Thanks ! :D
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