These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Time Dilation feedback

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zleon Leigh
#141 - 2012-01-26 22:45:30 UTC
Avo Lina wrote:

You are so FFing dumb, you don't even realize how stupid the nonsense is you are spewing forth


yep, that really sets you up on a pedestal.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Daedalus II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2012-01-26 23:46:23 UTC
I wonder if it would be possible to give all systems with less than 10 people on a node priority over those that actually cause the TiDi? That way in the 75 system on one node scenario, most of those systems would still not have any TiDi while those where the actual fighting happened maybe would have 91% slow down instead of 90% to compensate.

Basically if the system has less than 10 people in it, it is executed before anything else and can't be TiDi:ed, and that's ok, because there aren't enough people in those system to cause lag anyway. To compensate the high lag systems instead gets slightly higher TiDi.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#143 - 2012-01-27 04:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tres Farmer
Daedalus II wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to give all systems with less than 10 people on a node priority over those that actually cause the TiDi? That way in the 75 system on one node scenario, most of those systems would still not have any TiDi while those where the actual fighting happened maybe would have 91% slow down instead of 90% to compensate.

Basically if the system has less than 10 people in it, it is executed before anything else and can't be TiDi:ed, and that's ok, because there aren't enough people in those system to cause lag anyway. To compensate the high lag systems instead gets slightly higher TiDi.

I asked the same at page 7..
So far no answer from CCP.

Anyone know when that Dev blog comes out?

PS: I wouldn't hardwire it to 10 pilots per system.. make it self adjusting, take the average population of a timespan and go from there for deciding which system is behaving within it's normal power envelope and which isn't.
DeLaBu
CAF Industries
#144 - 2012-01-27 05:11:35 UTC
I don't think anyone should hold their breath that CCP can set different time dilations on solar systems that share a node.

The simulation on a node happens in a serial fashion- they can's speed up just (your) bits of it. The whole simulation speeds up or slows down, like an un-jumpable queue at the bank. To go faster, they must move you to another queue.

And that, I'm guessing, would be dynamic node remapping. Then you will be moved off of the lagging node and not be affected anymore.
Mister Viceguy
Blue Phoenix Rises
#145 - 2012-01-27 06:11:43 UTC
The TD could be good in pvp and sort too, cant tell. But when mining its bad. Someone must hade massive battle somewhere even to there was none in 15jump radius. The system i mined hade td at 10% about 30min. Ammount people in system was only 3, so try to tweek it a bit please. Its hurting mining and and my wallet, and nerves when you cycle time is 18min.
Zleon Leigh
#146 - 2012-01-27 06:18:39 UTC
Mister Viceguy wrote:
The TD could be good in pvp and sort too, cant tell. But when mining its bad. Someone must hade massive battle somewhere even to there was none in 15jump radius. The system i mined hade td at 10% about 30min. Ammount people in system was only 3, so try to tweek it a bit please. Its hurting mining and and my wallet, and nerves when you cycle time is 18min.


This is a very interesting point. Mining sucks as it is... but under TiDI? That hits the wallet hard.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#147 - 2012-01-27 17:03:12 UTC
DeLaBu wrote:
I don't think anyone should hold their breath that CCP can set different time dilations on solar systems that share a node.

The simulation on a node happens in a serial fashion- they can's speed up just (your) bits of it. The whole simulation speeds up or slows down, like an un-jumpable queue at the bank. To go faster, they must move you to another queue.

And that, I'm guessing, would be dynamic node remapping. Then you will be moved off of the lagging node and not be affected anymore.


I might remember that wrong, but the graphs of that analyser software CCP started using in that dev blog a year ago (or was it a video) showed a serial processing of the physical simulations. And as the stuff is being band-aided together by python I wouldn't expect anything different.

So you got a cpu core, running each of the physical simulations, one after the other.. when all are done it idles and waits for the next tick.. then it starts from the front again.

I get what you're saying... CCP did code it so, that as soon as the node is being overloaded by one of the threads, it will increase tick time.. so all threads will fit into one tick. This means, every action stays within a tick, however long it might be.
But as I wrote on page 7, this will create a lot of innocent bystanders being punished without ANY means to avoid the time dilatation.
They don't take part in the fleet fight, but still have to suffer.
And as the fleet fights work now and especially in not reinforced systems, anytime, anywhere, there will be a lot more unannounced fleet fights that will TiDi more people than before.

So, how about the thread that is getting overloaded will not adjust the tick time of all threads on that node, but instead will scale so, that while the node had 2 ticks, the thread will make just one.

something like this (thread 3 is overloading):

node tick 1:
- thread 1, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1
- thread 2, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1
- thread 3, half the actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 0.5
- thread 4, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1

node tick 2:
- thread 1, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1
- thread 2, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1
- thread 3, second half of the actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 0.5
- thread 4, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1

node tick 3:
- thread 1, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1
- thread 2, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1
- thread 3, half the actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 0.5
- thread 4, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1

node tick 4:
- thread 1, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1
- thread 2, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1
- thread 3, second half of the actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 0.5
- thread 4, all actions are done in 1 sec, TiDi = 1
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2012-01-29 21:27:32 UTC
Flying a covops (covops, recons, stealthbombers) into/within a time dilated system is just a nightmare. For example, there's no way to tell the cause why we are still uncloaked after activating the cloak after going through a gate is from time dilation or from lag or something else, which means some players could accidentally rehit the button and actually decloak themselves to their doom.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2012-01-30 04:44:31 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Flying a covops (covops, recons, stealthbombers) into/within a time dilated system is just a nightmare. For example, there's no way to tell the cause why we are still uncloaked after activating the cloak after going through a gate is from time dilation or from lag or something else, which means some players could accidentally rehit the button and actually decloak themselves to their doom.


I suspect everyone in the hostile fleet is making a note of exactly where you are that they can decloak you even if you beat the lock (and you might not beat the lock now that the inty pilot has time to react).
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2012-01-30 19:21:29 UTC
Makes travel a huge pain but huge fights are everything I've ever dreamed of(albeit in slo-mo)

On balance TiDi rocks!
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#151 - 2012-01-30 20:02:41 UTC
Time Dilation triggered in Kalevala Expanse, up to -80% for nearly half an hour, there were no big fleet fights happen, not even any PVP. EVE was unplayable, there were ~50 people within the constellation.

TIME DILATION SENSITIVITY NEEDS TO BE FIXED. I'd rather lag to hell than deal with this crap.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
Zleon Leigh
#152 - 2012-01-31 02:14:50 UTC
So TiDi is hitting systems across the EVE universe, but the a vocal bunch says that it's not a problem because it isn't bothering anyone. Well it's directly impacting mining and missioning economics - and not in a good way. Grinding isk is bad enough without getting 10's of percentages knocked off your return.

So CCP - ever happen to think of anyone but the monster fleet fights??

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2012-02-01 21:54:01 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Flying a covops (covops, recons, stealthbombers) into/within a time dilated system is just a nightmare. For example, there's no way to tell the cause why we are still uncloaked after activating the cloak after going through a gate is from time dilation or from lag or something else, which means some players could accidentally rehit the button and actually decloak themselves to their doom.


I suspect everyone in the hostile fleet is making a note of exactly where you are that they can decloak you even if you beat the lock (and you might not beat the lock now that the inty pilot has time to react).

The issue is not hostile decloaks, but self decloaking/failure to recloak after breaking gatecloaks since the cloak activation seems to be affected by time dilation.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Ascendic
Polaris Syndicate
#154 - 2012-02-01 23:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ascendic
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Apparently so... I used to do CPU hardware design for supercomputers... :)


For a guy who 'USED to design CPU hardware for supercomputers' you are a f*cking idiot.

I assume that is why you 'USED to' do this.
Zleon Leigh
#155 - 2012-02-02 00:34:11 UTC
Ascendic wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Apparently so... I used to do CPU hardware design for supercomputers... :)


For a guy who 'USED to design CPU hardware for supercomputers' you are a f*cking idiot.

I assume that is why you 'USED to' do this.


Such sweet words.

Nah, went on to make a helluva lot more money doing something else. EE's salaries were screwed over by the imports.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
#156 - 2012-02-04 13:02:54 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So TiDi is hitting systems across the EVE universe, but the a vocal bunch says that it's not a problem because it isn't bothering anyone. Well it's directly impacting mining and missioning economics - and not in a good way. Grinding isk is bad enough without getting 10's of percentages knocked off your return.

So CCP - ever happen to think of anyone but the monster fleet fights??


The only difference to the pre-TiDi era is that you now have that little icon telling you about the 'lagged out' node.

Actually, lots of people are raging now because they weren't aware of what was wrong earlier. They had noone to blame for the sudden and laggy behaviour of their clients and their stripminers were happily cycling green without dumping ore into their cargoholds. Now they have the TiDi indicator to direct their anger at.

Ps: Even if your point was justified, the fun of ~1000 players and the destruction of their ships had higher priority than the average miner's m³/hour.
Zleon Leigh
#157 - 2012-02-04 18:11:30 UTC
Vegare wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So TiDi is hitting systems across the EVE universe, but the a vocal bunch says that it's not a problem because it isn't bothering anyone. Well it's directly impacting mining and missioning economics - and not in a good way. Grinding isk is bad enough without getting 10's of percentages knocked off your return.

So CCP - ever happen to think of anyone but the monster fleet fights??


The only difference to the pre-TiDi era is that you now have that little icon telling you about the 'lagged out' node.

Actually, lots of people are raging now because they weren't aware of what was wrong earlier. They had noone to blame for the sudden and laggy behaviour of their clients and their stripminers were happily cycling green without dumping ore into their cargoholds. Now they have the TiDi indicator to direct their anger at.

Ps: Even if your point was justified, the fun of ~1000 players and the destruction of their ships had higher priority than the average miner's m³/hour.


Not true - before the miners were not getting lagged out, just the fleet fights. Now people outside of the fleet system are getting impacted.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
#158 - 2012-02-05 10:38:09 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:

Not true - before the miners were not getting lagged out, just the fleet fights. Now people outside of the fleet system are getting impacted.



Unintentionally, you've just proven my point xD
Deitis Surtic
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#159 - 2012-02-07 07:08:45 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
As I stated in my last post. I understand the awfulness that is massive lag in a huge fleet battle. However I still do not understand how CCP can justify lagging out the minority of subscribers to benefit the majority of subscribers. Lets look deeper into this.


Fixed that for you. As you're no doubt aware, 1000 players in a fleet battle is actually more than 100 or so carebears in various scattered systems.

Absolutely love TD, it's one of the most effective additions to EVE in recent memory. Had it a few times (both in and out of fleet) and it's either been hilarious (try salvaging a smashed RAIDENDOT Fade invasion at 20% normal speed) or rather bloody good, actually (1000 vs. 720 man fleet with responsive modules, no lag).
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#160 - 2012-02-08 09:08:52 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Boratz wrote:
K-IYNW 18:00 21/01/2012


There's a gigantic fight going on on this node. I guarantee you that if TiDi wasn't active, you'd be taking >5minutes to turn any modules on.

We can debate whether that's better or worse than time slowing down, but let's not pretend like this system would have been cupcakes and roses without TiDi.


QFT. You tell 'em Veritas.

Seriously, this is a far cry better than pressing F1and then taking a coffee break while you wait for your lock to finish and if you're lucky your weapon to actually fire. I've been in fleet fights where locking would take 20 minutes, and then if you're lucky you might get one weapon cycle off. 20 mintes later your guns stop. OOPS! ECM burst! Wait 15 minutes for weapons to stop cycling. Start over. Forget about getting in system.

Tried to log in in a heavily lagged system one day. After 3 attempts all met with nothing bu8t black screen, I quit for the day.

Another time I warped to a fight and got nothing but brackets. No space, no ships, no laz0rs, no missiles, no drones, no background. Nothing but intergalactic blackness and brackets. And you know what brackets does to a large fleet fight.

TiDi >>>> lag. At least you get to participate on an even playing fileld.

The only thing that could use some tweaking is people filing the fleet fight forms so they get a reinforced node and not screw other players over, as funny as that may be.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY