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Indy vs ore selling

Author
Maxious
Dragon Knights of EvE
#1 - 2012-01-30 12:58:56 UTC
Just wanted to put this out there to see what  people think. Or if I'm wrong on this. If I get about 3 mil Trit I can build 1000 shuttles and then sell the lot for about 7mill isk at local market rates. However if I take the 3mil Trit and just sell it I can get about 10 mil isk for it. Now in general I often find that the cost of materials will always cost more that the output of production. So given that and the amount of time involved is it ever worth it? Even having time and material research on an antimatter Charge blueprint it still is less than cost. I believe that I have the right skills too. But am I missing something or will cost of production. Always be more than the production itself
RaTTuS
BIG
#2 - 2012-01-30 13:01:40 UTC
best way is just to contract it to me and I'll sort it out

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Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-30 13:02:35 UTC
1000 shuttles

7 million ISK/each


You've made a slight miscalculation in there somewhere. I'll let you figure out what it is.
Orion Guardian
#4 - 2012-01-30 13:05:41 UTC
So if you can either make 7mil with building shuttles or 10 mil with selling trit.....the choice shouldn't be too hard should it?

AND IF you could even buy 1000 Shuttles, reproc them for trit and sell that trit for 9 mil (reproc value lost) then damn you can make money from other peoples stupidity
Orion Guardian
#5 - 2012-01-30 13:08:08 UTC
To be precise: There are people out there thinking "The mienrals I mine are free" and thus are stupid enough to sell their products UNDER value. If they had to buy all the mienrals they would literally lose money. But as they dont have to buy the minerals they don't see that and just earn elss than they could.

Knowing that youn can exploit their stupidity for your own gains and....go on producing different things not undercut by stupid people
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#6 - 2012-01-30 13:08:31 UTC
I am making some some hefty profits on my ships and other stuff so I think you either dont have the right skills or you are buying some very inflated minerals or your chosen market is not very good.
Maxious
Dragon Knights of EvE
#7 - 2012-01-30 13:59:49 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
1000 shuttles

7 million ISK/each


You've made a slight miscalculation in there somewhere. I'll let you figure out what it is.

No 7mil total. Sold near market rates at 10k. After tax it came to 7mil total
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-01-30 15:31:42 UTC
Actually, Eve online is about the only MMO I know where manufacturing actually works and gives you a profit above the raw materials. Of course you will have to find out what to produce and- much more important- where to sell it.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Julyan Fox
The crossroad Co.
#9 - 2012-01-30 15:41:23 UTC
Never underestimate a customer in need of a shuttle real fast. I've bought shuttles at over 30k isks just caus I was too lazy to get a cheaper one in another station 5000km away.

And I own a load of them.

Oh and if you want more customers for your shuttles gank a few pods traveling in highsec, but I guess it's another story Blink
Zytani
The Motley Crew Reborn
#10 - 2012-01-30 15:42:29 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
1000 shuttles

7 million ISK/each


You've made a slight miscalculation in there somewhere. I'll let you figure out what it is.



no it was you that mis read what the op typed

he said 1000 shuttles @ 7mil isk for the lot not each
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-01-30 15:43:20 UTC
dont forget: the minerals you mine are free, so you can always sell shuttles below mineral costs

or atleast, thats what idiots think ;)
Velicitia
XS Tech
#12 - 2012-01-30 16:01:57 UTC
Maxious wrote:
Mara Tessidar wrote:
1000 shuttles

7 million ISK/each


You've made a slight miscalculation in there somewhere. I'll let you figure out what it is.

No 7mil total. Sold near market rates at 10k. After tax it came to 7mil total


your skills and standings are really screwing you then. Get the trade skills, and sell out of a station owned by a corp you mission for (e.g. Navy Customs) to reduce your taxes and broker fees.

Skills/standings are nowhere near perfect for me, but I'd have less than half your tax.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-01-30 16:32:42 UTC
Orion GUardian wrote:
So if you can either make 7mil with building shuttles or 10 mil with selling trit.....the choice shouldn't be too hard should it?

AND IF you could even buy 1000 Shuttles, reproc them for trit and sell that trit for 9 mil (reproc value lost) then damn you can make money from other peoples stupidity


This has been done many times before.

When I first started I was making good money buying up cap 800's, reprocessing them and then selling the materials back on market.
What I noticed after a while, in the station I was in, the same guy I was buying the boosters from was buying the same materials off me.

That's always made me chuckle.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#14 - 2012-01-30 16:47:56 UTC
Is it a researched Blueprint and is your industry skill high? You get like 30% total waste if you use a basic BP and have no skill trained. And you may notice that's about the difference between the mineral cost and the shuttle cost you quoted.

Also: if you see an item being sold at below mineral cost, buy it, reprocess it, and sell the minerals. Under cost items are not a problem, they are an opportunity for profit.

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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-01-30 16:54:38 UTC
Julyan Fox wrote:
Never underestimate a customer in need of a shuttle real fast. I've bought shuttles at over 30k isks just caus I was too lazy to get a cheaper one in another station 5000km away.

Shuttle gouging is a time-honored null indy tradition
Skorpynekomimi
#16 - 2012-01-30 16:59:04 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Julyan Fox wrote:
Never underestimate a customer in need of a shuttle real fast. I've bought shuttles at over 30k isks just caus I was too lazy to get a cheaper one in another station 5000km away.

Shuttle gouging is a time-honored null indy tradition


Not just for nullsec! I'm combating it in lowsec systems with 30-50k prices on shuttles. It's even better for me since I got the BPO researched instead of just buying them off trade hub sell orders.

Of course, I should really expand that into more populated lowsec systems now I have a Prowler to avoid ganks.

Economic PVP

Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#17 - 2012-01-30 17:30:41 UTC
Maxious wrote:
If I get about 3 mil Trit I can build 1000 shuttles and then sell the lot for about 7mill isk at local market rates. However if I take the 3mil Trit and just sell it I can get about 10 mil isk for it. Now in general I often find that the cost of materials will always cost more that the output of production.


The only reason to manufacture products for sale on the market is to add value.

In this instance you're not adding value by manufacturing shuttles (the value is dropping significantly in fact) therefore there is no reason to manufacture.

The same applies to refining ore - sell the ore if the payout is better than selling the refined minerals. However it is at this level that the rule starts to seem less clear. By the time you come to modules the number of orders you can maintain becomes a factor. If you have 200 module types to sell and you can only manage 4 orders then the time spent managing the orders may be worth more than the losses made in reprocessing (losses due to inefficiency of the installation, poor skills and/or losses due to recycling equipment with a higher nominal value than its minerals), the prime examples I've seen of this have been when pulling out of 0.0 stations - even faction and T2 ships and mods being melted down because the materials can be sold to provide liquid capital from which to rebuild and the cost is lower than the logistics of removing the assets.

Your efficiency skills, refining and production; the state of your local market and many other factors will influence the ways you add value, if someone's willing to pay well over the odds to have something in a particular station that changes how value is added but also how costs apply - how much could you be making in the time it takes you to move the goods?

If, in the above situation, you could sell the shuttles for exactly the same amount as you could sell the raw trit, would it be worth manufacturing?
No, the installation and usage costs of the factory need to be taken into account, as does the time you've spent installing and delivering the job (not a vast amount of time for a single shuttle BP but significantly more as you manage more lines and tighter schedules).
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#18 - 2012-01-30 17:55:26 UTC
For Amarr Shuttles:

http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/11134/0/0/0/5

That's an Amarr shuttle, made with a fresh from market BPO, and Production efficiency 1 (the system doesn't actually take into account people with none. going into Indy stuff with anything less than 3 if foolish. And less than 5 is just a bad idea)

You'll be paying about 2% in tax

All prices are as of a 5% market buy in Jita.

As you can see, you could, if the market would support the numbers, make a reasonable profit percentage making shuttles. (doesn't scale, due to production times, and size of market)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#19 - 2012-01-30 18:55:44 UTC
Maxious wrote:
I often find that the cost of materials will always cost more that the output of production.


You're doing it wrong.

If you are trying to sell your stuff in market hubs, competing with almost every single other blueprint owner, then yeah, you are not going to make any money at all because you will be undercut by every idiot who doesn't know how to count or places zero value on his time.

While selling at a market hub provides quick sales if you survive the 0.01 isk game, invest some time in finding other places to sell your stuff.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-01-30 19:17:49 UTC
I'm Manufacture mods and ships. I make nice profits. I have never had any problems with the cost of minerals/materials costing more than what I can make on said item. I always calculate what it will cost to make said item before I even begin to buy materials for those items. If you are finding that you are loosing money or not making enough profits to justify building item, you either,

1. Have bad skills and/or not reseraching your BPO's
2. Are not building what is profitable
3. Selling in an Uber competetive market (i.e Jita) and your profit margins have shrunk because of it.

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