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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2181 - 2017-06-13 15:46:25 UTC
Axhind wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc.

In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for.


What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not.


make your own content maybe? however you sound like you prefer the repetitive nature of grinding of the same npc's constantly, so much fun...


And that is coming from someone hiding in NPC stations and space. No wonder you like fozzie, his biggest contribution is worthless sov and interceptors who's only counter is 6 titans with SBs on a gate.


hiding in npc stations...thats cute, didnt you guys hide in lowsec npc space during wwb?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#2182 - 2017-06-13 15:52:22 UTC
Just delete anomalies from the game. And PI. And mining belts ofc. Oh..and don't forget about relic and data sites!
Give players x ammount of isk every month to play with. Let us only buy ships with plex! Kill player owned markets on citadels.

I have planty more awesome CCP like ideas in my pocket! Pm me CCP! Or give me a call! Waiting!
XOXO
Ikshuki
Awoken Disintegration Fleet
#2183 - 2017-06-13 15:58:02 UTC
Huren Ogeko wrote:
On a side note I am wondering how badly this nerf is really affecting ratting. One of my corp mates reported this morning that his has the same ticks now as before and the only change is takes 2-3 volley's to take out a battleship now. Pre-patch he showed an average of 102mil ticks and after patch his first tick was around 106 mil. Maybe this nerf took away the overkill making less dps wasted on small ships and did little to affect the overall site times.

Does anyone else have any hard results in how it affects their ratting?
did you forget the 50% fighter drone aggro effect? that means the rats can randomly all aggro one drone and kill it in half a second, or web it to ****
Random Freak
Doomheim
#2184 - 2017-06-13 15:59:50 UTC
Ikshuki wrote:
Huren Ogeko wrote:
On a side note I am wondering how badly this nerf is really affecting ratting. One of my corp mates reported this morning that his has the same ticks now as before and the only change is takes 2-3 volley's to take out a battleship now. Pre-patch he showed an average of 102mil ticks and after patch his first tick was around 106 mil. Maybe this nerf took away the overkill making less dps wasted on small ships and did little to affect the overall site times.

Does anyone else have any hard results in how it affects their ratting?
did you forget the 50% fighter drone aggro effect? that means the rats can randomly all aggro one drone and kill it in half a second, or web it to ****


According to the patch notes, it was 15% also, it was not implemented. And I have yet to hear different from my corp mates.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#2185 - 2017-06-13 16:04:55 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Axhind wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc.

In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for.


What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not.


make your own content maybe? however you sound like you prefer the repetitive nature of grinding of the same npc's constantly, so much fun...


And that is coming from someone hiding in NPC stations and space. No wonder you like fozzie, his biggest contribution is worthless sov and interceptors who's only counter is 6 titans with SBs on a gate.


hiding in npc stations...thats cute, didnt you guys hide in lowsec npc space during wwb?


Just took entire rest of the eve and illegal casino money to do it. What is your excuse?
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2186 - 2017-06-13 16:26:06 UTC
Axhind wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Axhind wrote:


And that is coming from someone hiding in NPC stations and space. No wonder you like fozzie, his biggest contribution is worthless sov and interceptors who's only counter is 6 titans with SBs on a gate.


hiding in npc stations...thats cute, didnt you guys hide in lowsec npc space during wwb?


Just took entire rest of the eve and illegal casino money to do it. What is your excuse?


I'm scared of people shooting me

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Beidorion eldwardan
Tactically Armed Vanguard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2187 - 2017-06-13 16:36:50 UTC
See this is how you communicate

thanks CCP
Verlyn
Windhau
#2188 - 2017-06-13 16:38:07 UTC
C0ATL wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

  • We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date.[/list]


    • Noticed this part. I'll be paying special attention to this, because this is the area where everyone can get messed up.



    And you can bet that even after they bump capitals out of the anomalies they wont bother returning the 10% dmg they took. After all Carrier is just a sinonym for Cancer in CCP's dictionary as of late. They woudnt want to give cancer a fighting chance now, would they? :D

    Pathetic.

    *
    *
    *

    There have been many players that gave ideas on how to change PVE in order to not need the carrier nerfs.
    The following is my 2 cents:

    Gate every anomaly per ship class... with a variation of Hidden and Forsaken types for those who want more of a challenge for that particular class.

    Burrow/Hideaway/Refuge/Den + Hidden/Forsaken variations ---> Frigs
    Yard/ Rally Point/ Port + Hidden/Forsaken variations ----> Cruisers
    Hub + Hidden/Forsaken variations ----> Battlecruisers
    Haven/Sanctum ----> Battleships

    This way, you dont need to nerf the entire PVE bounties when you notice that a particular ship type is gaining too much ISK, or nerf the ship itself in pvp by extent. Just reduce bounties or modify NPCs in those particular sites. You would be setting yourself up for an easier tackle of such problems in the future.
    VNIs and Ishtars wont be able to just AFK rat in Havens and Sanctums --- Sure they will do it in the cruiser designated sites but for less bounty and players will also need to swap sites faster, thus forcing them to more active.
    Have a few exceptions that can go to all of the above mentioned sites, ignoring class restriction... I.E. T3 cruisers. That way when a group wants to raise their index after capturing territory they cant complain about being forced to play with frigs and whatnot.


    Now onto capitals:

    Create a new Anomaly
    Example: Blood Raider Capital Shipyard - restricted to carriers. Spawn 1 NPC dread + occasional waves of elite frigs and/or elite cruisers. Have the waves always aggro player ship instead of Fighters. That way players cant complain about their fighters being one-shotted by the dread while killing the additional spawns, and with the dread hitting a carrier constantly, it also presents a fair cap management and tanking challenge.
    From all people flying carriers atm, only a few manage to solo dreads and even then it can be problematic and time consuming -- and if multiple carriers enter the same anomaly to make it easier, the bounty gets split and thus, individual ticks are lowered. Multiboxing in carriers is brain melting anyway so you cant have 2nd or 3rd carrier alt helping you out so players would choose between working with a different player or attempting to solo.
    Make the frigs/cruiser waves put points on the player ship...that way players wont be able to just cherry-pick the Dread and move onto the next site or specialize their fighters only for taking out a capital ship.


    Finally Supercarriers:
    Just as with carriers, create a new anomally completely for them
    Example: Guristas Headquarters - solely restricted to Supercarriers. Guarded by 1 NPC titan spawn + periodic waves of elite frigates/cruisers and battleships. Same aggro rules as with the carrier site, but elite cruisers get to have the infinite point of HICs for obvious reasons.
    Now, before I get reprimanded -- yes, I am aware that atm an NPC Titan can be soloed by 1 dread and thus a supercarrier would eat it up immediately BUT the anomally titan does not need to have the same stats as the current NPC one that appears randomly nor should it have the same bounty. Numbers should be crunched and after careful thought and experimentation and player consultation, the anomaly titan spawn should have stats that --just as a current NPC dread does to carriers -- offers a challenge to a supercarrier. I would even include a tweaked doomsday, if it were up to me.



    *
    *
    *

    In the end, if implemented in a balanced way for both players and game economy, such a project would:
    -Offer players a satisfying experience depending on the ship class they prefer to use
    - To a very small extent, reduce the impact of AFK cruiser ratting....
    - Make capital and supercapital pilots not feel like they are stepping on ants while ratting due to the complete lack of a challenge in Havens and Sanctums.
    - Increase the risk of capital ratting by having NPCs focus Carriers and Supercarriers with points and infinite scram, respectively. (Also, if anomalies are gated, a player cant warp to a prefered/safe distance from the site so that he can take out all point-equipped ships before they even get a chance to hold him.)
    - Allow CCP to more easily tweak only the problematic side of PVE if their current predicament surfaces again in the future, instead of all of it (like overall reduction in bounties) ...or in a way that affects PVP.

    *
    Yes, this would mean them needing to put out some effort in terms of balancing or new anomaly design... And I'm sure that people will find some flaws with the above portrayed ideas. But its better than tearing down the whole nullsec pve and starting from the ground up... not to mention its much more realistic to achieve rather than a complete overhaul of PVE -- or not doing anything at all.

    THINK CCP.... THINK! Give us something or ask the community if you are out of ideas but start FIXING your game properly!
    Until such a time, my accounts remain unsubed. :/

    o7


    This.
    Cpt WhiteEye
    Eternity INC.
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2189 - 2017-06-13 16:50:35 UTC
    So what did actually change:
    I lost 1500 dps on my Hel
    Before patch it took me around 4 minutes to finish a Combat site.
    After path it takes me 4 minutes to finish the same site.

    CCP NEVER USED A SUPER FOR RATTING AND THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO RAT WITH THEM.

    Im pretty sure this sums up the patch.

    PS: Almost forgot rorquals got yet another nefr. They are so useless now its well worth spending 10b on one.
    Teckos Pech
    Hogyoku
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2190 - 2017-06-13 17:17:05 UTC
    Jenn aSide wrote:
    Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote:
    CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone.


    CCP isn't and should not be responsible for people's bad gameplay choices. Like if someone finds a way to use a ship to make 3 billion isk per tick and I skill inject into that ship despite having enough sense to know that CCP is going to nerf that as soon as they are aware of it, CCP would owe me nothing when they fixed the thing i was stupid enough to spend money on.

    I still remain amazed at the fact the people can play EVE for years watching CCP ruthlessly nerf stuff that is too good and they STILL can't grasp the idea that going for the next big flavor of the month is a stupid idea.



    In fact, this is so wildly imbalancing that if somebody found this out, did not tell CCP and kept doing it...ban the feck out of them. And people jumping on and taking advantage of it...ban the feck out of them too.

    This is EXACTLY happened to people who were taking advantage of the moon goo bug about 8 or 9 years ago. They noticed that they could get a silo full of reacted moon goo if they set up the connections in a POS in a certain order. No waiting and reacitng, BOOM, instant silo of moon goo. And they used it for quite some time and finally the jig was up and CCP hit a number of people with the ban hammer.

    "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

    8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
    Teckos Pech
    Hogyoku
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2191 - 2017-06-13 17:22:17 UTC
    C0ATL wrote:



    And you can bet that even after they bump capitals out of the anomalies they wont bother returning the 10% dmg they took. After all Carrier is just a sinonym for Cancer in CCP's dictionary as of late. They woudnt want to give cancer a fighting chance now, would they? :D

    Pathetic.

    *
    *
    *

    There have been many players that gave ideas on how to change PVE in order to not need the carrier nerfs.
    The following is my 2 cents:

    Gate every anomaly per ship class... with a variation of Hidden and Forsaken types for those who want more of a challenge for that particular class.

    Burrow/Hideaway/Refuge/Den + Hidden/Forsaken variations ---> Frigs
    Yard/ Rally Point/ Port + Hidden/Forsaken variations ----> Cruisers
    Hub + Hidden/Forsaken variations ----> Battlecruisers
    Haven/Sanctum ----> Battleships

    This way, you dont need to nerf the entire PVE bounties when you notice that a particular ship type is gaining too much ISK, or nerf the ship itself in pvp by extent. Just reduce bounties or modify NPCs in those particular sites. You would be setting yourself up for an easier tackle of such problems in the future.
    VNIs and Ishtars wont be able to just AFK rat in Havens and Sanctums --- Sure they will do it in the cruiser designated sites but for less bounty and players will also need to swap sites faster, thus forcing them to more active.
    Have a few exceptions that can go to all of the above mentioned sites, ignoring class restriction... I.E. T3 cruisers. That way when a group wants to raise their index after capturing territory they cant complain about being forced to play with frigs and whatnot.


    Now onto capitals:

    Create a new Anomaly
    Example: Blood Raider Capital Shipyard - restricted to carriers. Spawn 1 NPC dread + occasional waves of elite frigs and/or elite cruisers. Have the waves always aggro player ship instead of Fighters. That way players cant complain about their fighters being one-shotted by the dread while killing the additional spawns, and with the dread hitting a carrier constantly, it also presents a fair cap management and tanking challenge.
    From all people flying carriers atm, only a few manage to solo dreads and even then it can be problematic and time consuming -- and if multiple carriers enter the same anomaly to make it easier, the bounty gets split and thus, individual ticks are lowered. Multiboxing in carriers is brain melting anyway so you cant have 2nd or 3rd carrier alt helping you out so players would choose between working with a different player or attempting to solo.
    Make the frigs/cruiser waves put points on the player ship...that way players wont be able to just cherry-pick the Dread and move onto the next site or specialize their fighters only for taking out a capital ship.


    Finally Supercarriers:
    Just as with carriers, create a new anomally completely for them
    Example: Guristas Headquarters - solely restricted to Supercarriers. Guarded by 1 NPC titan spawn + periodic waves of elite frigates/cruisers and battleships. Same aggro rules as with the carrier site, but elite cruisers get to have the infinite point of HICs for obvious reasons.
    Now, before I get reprimanded -- yes, I am aware that atm an NPC Titan can be soloed by 1 dread and thus a supercarrier would eat it up immediately BUT the anomally titan does not need to have the same stats as the current NPC one that appears randomly nor should it have the same bounty. Numbers should be crunched and after careful thought and experimentation and player consultation, the anomaly titan spawn should have stats that --just as a current NPC dread does to carriers -- offers a challenge to a supercarrier. I would even include a tweaked doomsday, if it were up to me.



    *
    *
    *

    In the end, if implemented in a balanced way for both players and game economy, such a project would:
    -Offer players a satisfying experience depending on the ship class they prefer to use
    - To a very small extent, reduce the impact of AFK cruiser ratting....
    - Make capital and supercapital pilots not feel like they are stepping on ants while ratting due to the complete lack of a challenge in Havens and Sanctums.
    - Increase the risk of capital ratting by having NPCs focus Carriers and Supercarriers with points and infinite scram, respectively. (Also, if anomalies are gated, a player cant warp to a prefered/safe distance from the site so that he can take out all point-equipped ships before they even get a chance to hold him.)
    - Allow CCP to more easily tweak only the problematic side of PVE if their current predicament surfaces again in the future, instead of all of it (like overall reduction in bounties) ...or in a way that affects PVP.

    *
    Yes, this would mean them needing to put out some effort in terms of balancing or new anomaly design... And I'm sure that people will find some flaws with the above portrayed ideas. But its better than tearing down the whole nullsec pve and starting from the ground up... not to mention its much more realistic to achieve rather than a complete overhaul of PVE -- or not doing anything at all.

    THINK CCP.... THINK! Give us something or ask the community if you are out of ideas but start FIXING your game properly!
    Until such a time, my accounts remain unsubed. :/

    o7


    While I have not sat down and looked at your solution and so forth, I am not opposed to this out of necessity, but and this is a big fat but, something must be done to slow done the growth of ISK right now. Waiting 2-3 months or longer won't cut it. So some sort of nerf is a near immediate requirement.

    "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

    8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
    CaZio
    RELAXED
    #2192 - 2017-06-13 17:23:16 UTC
    CCP Larrikin wrote:
    Reserved



    where is my f...g DISLIKE button??

    i had just ordered a Rorq two weeks ago..... thanks for changes

    i do ratting in a Carrier as well but since there are so many other guys doing Sanctums - Heavens and F-hubs in Battleships AFK and blocking the Anos for carriers you should better nerf them instead going on our nerves.

    And regarding the money thing... may be you check out for yourself how much a PLEX was a couple of years ago...or just 1 year ago and how much it is now!!! so there IS some compensation CCP ...belive it or not... may be it should be a good idea to play your own game sometimes...

    When i started EvE in 2006 a plex was 300mil 3 weeks ago it was 1,2 BIL now after your glorious changes it is near to 1,4BIL ...

    Before we skilled DRONES to 5 to use them in Anos...after you nerfed Carriers most of the Skilltime was for nothing...did we get anything in return for the wasted time?

    yeah...another nerf...

    THX Big smileBig smileBig smile
    CaZio
    RELAXED
    #2193 - 2017-06-13 17:30:08 UTC
    ohhh btw... how about fixing the servers... its really ANOYING if in a fleet and the server crashes and for 20min there is no relog possible like 4 days ago???

    I understand your IT staff has to prove they are still nescesary, otherwise they will loose their jobs... so off to the servers and make sure we are not loosing just 5bil of Excavator drones or ships because of this incidents...i guess thats much more importand as nerfes every month ;) Cool
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #2194 - 2017-06-13 17:31:55 UTC
    Cpt WhiteEye wrote:
    So what did actually change:
    I lost 1500 dps on my Hel
    Before patch it took me around 4 minutes to finish a Combat site.
    After path it takes me 4 minutes to finish the same site.

    CCP NEVER USED A SUPER FOR RATTING AND THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO RAT WITH THEM.

    Im pretty sure this sums up the patch.

    PS: Almost forgot rorquals got yet another nefr. They are so useless now its well worth spending 10b on one.


    Now you see why they wanted to do the bigger nerf.
    Nana Skalski
    Taisaanat Kotei
    EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
    #2195 - 2017-06-13 17:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
    Maybe if all the bounties would be moving from killed anomaly pirates to a carrier that is doing the killing, people would actually hunt more for those carriers. How to move bounties to make them claimable by others? Maybe chips that fill with data of pirates automatically as they are killed? And they would appear in cargo space of carrier. Then they would have to be transported to a location to be sold.

    Bounty chips for null. \o/

    Or just those tags that you have to collect like in some missions.

    ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

    ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

    ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

    ≡⋁≡ ♥
    Teckos Pech
    Hogyoku
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2196 - 2017-06-13 17:46:25 UTC
    CaZio wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:
    Reserved



    where is my f...g DISLIKE button??

    i had just ordered a Rorq two weeks ago..... thanks for changes

    i do ratting in a Carrier as well but since there are so many other guys doing Sanctums - Heavens and F-hubs in Battleships AFK and blocking the Anos for carriers you should better nerf them instead going on our nerves.

    And regarding the money thing... may be you check out for yourself how much a PLEX was a couple of years ago...or just 1 year ago and how much it is now!!! so there IS some compensation CCP ...belive it or not... may be it should be a good idea to play your own game sometimes...

    When i started EvE in 2006 a plex was 300mil 3 weeks ago it was 1,2 BIL now after your glorious changes it is near to 1,4BIL ...

    Before we skilled DRONES to 5 to use them in Anos...after you nerfed Carriers most of the Skilltime was for nothing...did we get anything in return for the wasted time?

    yeah...another nerf...

    THX Big smileBig smileBig smile



    Translation: Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,!!!

    "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

    8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
    Teckos Pech
    Hogyoku
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2197 - 2017-06-13 17:52:38 UTC
    Kaze Mester wrote:
    Just delete anomalies from the game. And PI. And mining belts ofc. Oh..and don't forget about relic and data sites!
    Give players x ammount of isk every month to play with. Let us only buy ships with plex! Kill player owned markets on citadels.

    I have planty more awesome CCP like ideas in my pocket! Pm me CCP! Or give me a call! Waiting!
    XOXO


    That is some strong shiptoasting.

    "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

    8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
    Teckos Pech
    Hogyoku
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2198 - 2017-06-13 18:00:32 UTC
    Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote:
    CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone.


    If the skills were rendered useless you might have a point. They aren't so you don't. The only thing you really have is that you are excessively butthurt and you think that justifies your petulance. Take all that ISK and be happy.

    Or how about this:

    CCP gives you the SP, but takes any and all ISK you made ratting?

    "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

    8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
    Axhind
    Eternity INC.
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2199 - 2017-06-13 18:37:16 UTC
    Teckos Pech wrote:
    Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote:
    CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone.


    If the skills were rendered useless you might have a point. They aren't so you don't. The only thing you really have is that you are excessively butthurt and you think that justifies your petulance. Take all that ISK and be happy.

    Or how about this:

    CCP gives you the SP, but takes any and all ISK you made ratting?


    White knighting for CCP must be a new low for AMOK.
    Teckos Pech
    Hogyoku
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2200 - 2017-06-13 18:40:30 UTC
    Axhind wrote:
    Teckos Pech wrote:
    Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote:
    CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone.


    If the skills were rendered useless you might have a point. They aren't so you don't. The only thing you really have is that you are excessively butthurt and you think that justifies your petulance. Take all that ISK and be happy.

    Or how about this:

    CCP gives you the SP, but takes any and all ISK you made ratting?


    White knighting for CCP must be a new low for AMOK.


    Wanting something for nothing is pathetic.

    Ignoring the huge problem sitting in front of you is stupid.

    "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

    8 Golden Rules for EVE Online