EVE General Discussion

The real problem is not that 0.0 alliances are given any specific advantages to generate income, but the game mechanics behind generating that income is where the problem lies.

Alliance income should come in the form of holding space AND how often that space is "used". This was supposedly one of the driving theories behind CCP making the sov mechanic overhaul in Tyranis or whatever expansion it was. But it didn't work out that way.

Alliances should want to encourage traffic through their space, and pilots working that space by ratting or mining or doing industry somehow should provide the income to the alliances. If you can convince more people to come out to your space and stay there and DO STUFF, then alliances should be able to make a reasonable income off of this, through some yet unknown game mechanic. Suddenly sov holding alliances would have a reason to protect their space, because better protected space would encourage more people to come out to your area and make you money. Moon minerals can stay, but their profitability should be capped at 1-2b per moon per month after fuel costs, or possibly moon mining could become more interactive and requiring direct player interaction. Either way, it would be nice to see more of an effort to move moons and their resources somehow more into the hands of players, rather than alliances and corporations.

Currently supercap production is the only really good reason to take and hold sov. Upgrades for ratting and stuff are also kinda nice, but when you can make 200m per hour in highsec incursions, who cares about some crappy ihub upgrade that may not even spawn sanctums anymore.

Either way, I'm pretty sure that within the next year we're going to see a big overhaul of the sov system, and we're almost assuredly going to see some sort of moon goo change to fix the issues with tech moons. The CSM and CCP both seem pretty unhappy with the current mechanics, and they're a good 2+ years old now, so the flaws are very, very evident.

The only way to make 200m/hour (of online time) in high sec is industrial production and maybe station trading. The highest number for incursions that I've heard is 120m which, honestly, I'm not sure is any better than the same faction fits could do chaining level 4s. Seems like the problems you folks in 0.0 have has a lot to do with folks not wanting to take crap from leadership, (or not wanting to give up a kill if they get caught out ratting) than anything else.

anybody who wants high-sec incursions removed is short-sighted and dumb

the issue isn't even the rewards, it's the fact that vanguards are so blitzable

anyway, away with you, faceless forum alt

So.... what subsidy category does "If someone shoots me their ship blows up within seconds" fall into?

Or would that be more of a "gift" from CCP?

How does balancing Incursions... or killing the Mom per present game mechanics.... destroy a high sec community?

What about the high sec communities that suffer the whole time you are prolonging the Incursion?

If there should be no mechanical advantages, does that mean you propose Concord be removed?

Or agents for that matter...

More to the point, as we all know EVE is based on the concept of "Risk vs. Reward"... what risks have you taken to justify your reward and how does that relate to the risk of sinking billions into infrastructure and vulnerable static assets into lawless space to reap those perceived rewards?

At present the only high sec group content comes from incursions. Destroying the Mom kills the content. CCP should probably look into adding more high sec community content.



Who and how? I suppose if an incursion spawned on a high sec missioning hub that might mean a bit of delay as people move their ships to other agents. On the other hand that might be a great way to get mission runners into incursion.




Experience has shown that the only workable methods for security in EvE are NBSI and Concord. Any area where mechanics discourage NBSI but lack Concord protection becomes a wasteland (also known as low sec). If all of EvE became NBSI the accessibility of the game to new players would drop dramatically.

At one time concord operated as the faction police do now. The current Concord mechanics implemented after a group known as MoO set up a remote repping smartbomb trap on a major choke point (I think it was the MOTSU gate). The results of this action were judged so detrimental to the game that the current concordoken mechanics were added. Further, high sec security is a resources available to all players regardless of play style. Alliances subsidies are not.

Again I should point out that there are three areas where CCP has said "this is the sandbox, go do whatever you want" WH space, NPC 0.0 and Sov Space. Of these three sandbox areas only gets the equivalent of CCP magically creating 1/4 of their POS fuel.



You mean like the serpentis agents in Fountain?

Should I send you the bill for the ships I've lost from pulling gate aggro/GCC for shooting at a non-agressed tackler/blackbird/rook/falcon? Gate shoots at all flashy's equally, no matter how you pulled that GCC (and won't do a thing to help you against someone who doesn't have a GCC). FCing low sec is it's own special kind of hell that I recommend you simply skip and head to syndicate if you're looking for small gang fun.

If being in sov 0.0 is so superawesome, and has so few drawbacks, why are not you operating there?

Please link this supposed comment of CCP saying and confirming that.

I'm pretty sure there are not 3 seperate sandboxes.

I'm pretty damn sure that there is just ONE sandbox and all those areas, including high/low.. are in it.

The fact that CONCORD takes time to show up and not insta-powns.. or that there isn't some outright mechanic that disables highsec ganking should clue you on CCP intentions for this game.. and what people are allowed to do to others in the lone sandbox.

You think majority of people go to null for wealth? No. Fights.. Yes.

And some aren't interested in the wealth aspect, more so to hold Power. They get the wealth is merely a tool to Power, wealth is a figment, pixels, meaningless.. but an important tool to weild Power in null, as it should be.. especially in such economic driven game.

The problems is that people still need Isk. For one thing or another.. alliances reimbursement programs, while some steller, some are not.. and none cover EVERYTHING. They never could.. cause there really isn't enough isk in null to do so, period.. ever. Believe otherwise if you want, trust me.. you're wrong. Takes one good shoot to the warchest to turn a fear into an outright panic.

If more is done to nerf the wealth of null.. the current problem is only going to get worse. Less people SPENDING TIME in null.. spending time on high toons to generate Isk. Which means less people overall around to pew-pew each other on roams and such. Stagnant.

The whole arguement that high is so much more populated than the rest of EVE is such a bullshit number. Why? Because it is very likely that null/low characters have highsec alts for a variety of different reasons that suit their personal needs and ambitions in this game.. THAT IS HOW POWERFUL HIGHSEC IS. Where as there are highsec onlys that do not have null alts.

The Incursion situation is driving this even further and further. More people spending less time in null and more time in highsec..

Which then becomes greatly compounded by the fact of raising PLEX in both cost, in how much is traded at a median level. An amount of which both are increasing.. because supply is either stationary, or even going down.. where as demand is obviously going up. Do I need to explain what caused this result?

Incursions. Faction BS n faction fit all over the place.

T3 cruisers out the ass all over the place and everywhere. No amount of buffs and changes to AFs, eafs, bc, T1 cruisers is going to change a damn thing about sigments of the population so easily floating about in T3 cruisers and faction ships.. unless the ships end up better than those, and lets hope it doesn't jump that shark.

When you start to have so much income.. you start to indulge.. indy alt here, scout/fleet boosting alt here.. fancy ships here n there. PLEX for all..

Guess what.. to keep that lifestyle, got to spend more time making isk, keep making isk, keep making isk..

Less time players spent in null alts. Less drive n desire for newbs to leave the safer riches of high.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

And no.. making null balanced and equal with isk flow, moon goo and such everywhere is a terrible idea. That will truly create mini-pockets of 'highsec' with alliances having no desire to risk lose over more, when everything is the same next door. There should be a strong section, and only the strongest and most Stable.. should control it.

Equality for all can kiss my ass. Earn your keep.