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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Author
Aeryn Atropos
ISSD Holdings
#9861 - 2017-06-10 14:08:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

I am saying that you are failing to use your brain on what you can do to improve your chances, either you are stupid or you were being sarcastic in asking for a fit for an interceptor that can catch a pre-aligned ship. The key part is whether the ship is pre-aligned or not, get it....? A VNI with a over sized AB has the turning circle of a brick, are you seriously telling me that you cannot catch one, people catch them a lot, it is not just about paying attention, but if you want to be dumb about it then please continue.

Of course it is risky creating hole control, but it is necessary to get the freedom to bring out the expensive toys, again you have the ability to create a certain level of safety, and you have bottlenecks in system entry, in null there is the cyno... Anyway you sound like a WH player to me who just want to pop into null sec and be invisible in their T3C to get tackle, lazy that is all you are.

The whacking of Supers and Carriers is because the Goons are over doing it again under their hard worked for total dominance in the region of Delve, it is like that idiot Linus Gorp wanting to nerf local because bots in the drone lands use local to auto report. My alliance does not use auto bots to give local intel, so we have to suffer the impact, CCP should remove those bots not wreck game play because of it. In any case I don't carrier rat, because simply put the fact that the fighter comes to a complete stop after blowing something up annoys the absolute hell out of me and at this point I do not have T2 fighters trained as I wanted to drop a max damage dread on PL. So suggesting I am a null bear is way off the mark, the arrogance of WH players yet again.

If you do not like null sec with local then stay in WH space, simple as that, I don't seek to impose my play conditions on you, so why do you feel so entitled that you can do the same with local. Many null sec players get around it by using their brain and the correct ship type, I have around me in my alliance some excellent hunters who do it, they use interceptors, command dessies, sabres, who would have thought that? Your whining is sad.

Here this is reality

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-may-2017/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=news&utm_content=MER


there is not enough destruction and risk to merit the profits made in Null. It is completely unbalancing the rest of the game. That is why they are nerfing carriers. CCP Quant said as much. Its not limited to goons, its every ratter/miner out there that turns on the isk/mineral faucet when local is clear and it is all safe. Then docks up as soon as a potential threat enters the system. Everyone knows there is no amount of "getting Gud" that can prevent people docking the moment you appear in local. The only people that get caught are the ones who don't pay attention.

Do 100mn VNI's get caught? I'm sure they do, people run those specifically so they don't have to pay attention to what they are doing. Because VNI's are disposable the risk/reward is not balanced.

Guess what? the CV nerf wont help, because it isn't the problem. The problem is the safety of Null which is based on the intel local provides. After people turn away from carrier ratting they will go on to the next flavor of the month ratting ship, which will in turn get whacked by the nerf bat. Its your denial which is Sad.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#9862 - 2017-06-10 14:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Aeryn Atropos wrote:
Here this is reality

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-may-2017/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=news&utm_content=MER


there is not enough destruction and risk to merit the profits made in Null. It is completely unbalancing the rest of the game. That is why they are nerfing carriers. CCP Quant said as much. Its not limited to goons, its every ratter/miner out there that turns on the isk/mineral faucet when local is clear and it is all safe. Then docks up as soon as a potential threat enters the system. Everyone knows there is no amount of "getting Gud" that can prevent people docking the moment you appear in local. The only people that get caught are the ones who don't pay attention.

Do 100mn VNI's get caught? I'm sure they do, people run those specifically so they don't have to pay attention to what they are doing. Because VNI's are disposable the risk/reward is not balanced.

Guess what? the CV nerf wont help, because it isn't the problem. The problem is the safety of Null which is based on the intel local provides. After people turn away from carrier ratting they will go on to the next flavor of the month ratting ship, which will in turn get whacked by the nerf bat. Its your denial which is Sad.


There is a cold war arms race going on, failing to understand that is rather wow just wow. And people coming into our systems when we are all on and horny get blown up as we stream out in all manner of bling ships, seriously. I have on my shopping list about three dreads two FAX's and a Super, getting ready for when the Goons come out of Delve. CCP are merely cutting off the other groups from matching the Goons who have a hell of a head start, but that is a challenge, we have to beat them in the field and wear them out with blown up pixels.

Stop whining and play the game, if you don't like the balance stop playing that part, I stopped mining when all the ships had the tank of a wet paper bag, I stopped using a freighter when there was no counter to bumping within reasonable play, you should stop trying to kill stuff in null if local unsettles you so much. Seriously sabres and interceptors are good fun, I guess you do not like dying..., WH bears.... I disagree taht it is only people who are inattentive, you have to force mistakes, I explained how to do it earlier in this thread and changed the mind of one player in doing so, you just need to get better at Eve, it is however not easy.

A VNI fully fitted is about 150m on contracts for me, still a loss, that is ten percent towards another dread hull and means I have to do more boring ratting.

And do you know what my carrier is solely fitted with space superiority fighters, I am not bothered at all because it is merely a tool to defang supers, so what...., no issue for me at all...

PS I am not trying to say I am some super duper tackle player, I am not, I leave people who are better than me to do it, though I can do it, the tactics to use are to me pretty obvious and if you have ratted in carriers, supers, VNI's etc, you will know what to force, but anyway, your call to just blame local instead of a lack of effort on your part...

NB. A hunter is not someone who always gets that instant kill, if you want that go and play a FPS.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#9863 - 2017-06-10 18:57:42 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Stupid point sarcasm does not work with players who know players who get tackle doing this, all I can say is get better at Eve, you are just lazy and giving up, thankfully the hunters I know are not and don't...


Obviously there are people who get tackle doing that, because there are plenty of lazy and/or incompetent PvE targets out there. But farming idiots for killmails doesn't change the fact that a competent player is not going to be caught.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#9864 - 2017-06-10 19:00:21 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Stop whining and play the game, if you don't like the balance stop playing that part


Hypocrisy, thy name is Dracvlad. Stop whining about AFK cloaking and play the game, if you don't like the balance stop playing that part.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9865 - 2017-06-10 19:37:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Aeryn Atropos wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Another lazy person or at best someone being very imprecise, there are gaps in local intel with empty systems and people AFK so movement does not get reported, but if you say that there is no way to get around when you jump into the system, then this is the lazy part. Get into an interceptor and point them for your mates, you have to get the right site and off you go, plenty of people do it, why can't you, let me guess you don't have mates or you prefer to fly something bigger, that is your fault, simple as that.


Please link the interceptor fit you apparently have that allows a player to enter a system, warp to, and tackle someone else within the time it takes to notice a local flash and warp a pre aligned ship back to base. The statistics clearly demonstrate how much risk mitigation there is, Hi and Lo sec have far more destruction than null, and a large part of the reason is the difference in usefulness of local. I wish the report showed J-Space as well, because amazingly people still manage to harvest resources without local crutch, they just do it with far more risk.


Stupid point sarcasm does not work with players who know players who get tackle doing this, all I can say is get better at Eve, you are just lazy and giving up, thankfully the hunters I know are not and don't...

WH space vs null, does hole control and cyno's have any impact on risk? Stop posting stupid to people who know the game.



Yeah Aeryn, the only thing more awesome than Dracvlad is Dracvlad's opinion of himself.

Psst...Dracvlad is probably a narcissist.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9866 - 2017-06-10 19:38:32 UTC
Aeryn Atropos wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

I am saying that you are failing to use your brain on what you can do to improve your chances, either you are stupid or you were being sarcastic in asking for a fit for an interceptor that can catch a pre-aligned ship. The key part is whether the ship is pre-aligned or not, get it....? A VNI with a over sized AB has the turning circle of a brick, are you seriously telling me that you cannot catch one, people catch them a lot, it is not just about paying attention, but if you want to be dumb about it then please continue.

Of course it is risky creating hole control, but it is necessary to get the freedom to bring out the expensive toys, again you have the ability to create a certain level of safety, and you have bottlenecks in system entry, in null there is the cyno... Anyway you sound like a WH player to me who just want to pop into null sec and be invisible in their T3C to get tackle, lazy that is all you are.

The whacking of Supers and Carriers is because the Goons are over doing it again under their hard worked for total dominance in the region of Delve, it is like that idiot Linus Gorp wanting to nerf local because bots in the drone lands use local to auto report. My alliance does not use auto bots to give local intel, so we have to suffer the impact, CCP should remove those bots not wreck game play because of it. In any case I don't carrier rat, because simply put the fact that the fighter comes to a complete stop after blowing something up annoys the absolute hell out of me and at this point I do not have T2 fighters trained as I wanted to drop a max damage dread on PL. So suggesting I am a null bear is way off the mark, the arrogance of WH players yet again.

If you do not like null sec with local then stay in WH space, simple as that, I don't seek to impose my play conditions on you, so why do you feel so entitled that you can do the same with local. Many null sec players get around it by using their brain and the correct ship type, I have around me in my alliance some excellent hunters who do it, they use interceptors, command dessies, sabres, who would have thought that? Your whining is sad.

Here this is reality

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-may-2017/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=news&utm_content=MER


there is not enough destruction and risk to merit the profits made in Null. It is completely unbalancing the rest of the game. That is why they are nerfing carriers. CCP Quant said as much. Its not limited to goons, its every ratter/miner out there that turns on the isk/mineral faucet when local is clear and it is all safe. Then docks up as soon as a potential threat enters the system. Everyone knows there is no amount of "getting Gud" that can prevent people docking the moment you appear in local. The only people that get caught are the ones who don't pay attention.

Do 100mn VNI's get caught? I'm sure they do, people run those specifically so they don't have to pay attention to what they are doing. Because VNI's are disposable the risk/reward is not balanced.

Guess what? the CV nerf wont help, because it isn't the problem. The problem is the safety of Null which is based on the intel local provides. After people turn away from carrier ratting they will go on to the next flavor of the month ratting ship, which will in turn get whacked by the nerf bat. Its your denial which is Sad.


In fact, there is way, way too much ISK coming into the economy too. A six fold increase from the previous month.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Ajem Hinken
WarFear Gaming
#9867 - 2017-06-10 20:53:11 UTC
I still think that a paint-filled missile that you can launch, it fly straight away from you in the direction your ship's pointing, and then detonate on command would be nice. If a cloaker was cloaked and the missile went off near them, their ship would be covered in colored splatters that their cloak did not hide. Some parts would be transparent, some would be colored. (So it looked like someone had crappy aim with a paintball gun shooting at their ship, and then they cloaked) and voila. Pop one of those suckers down, and everyone in the area would be revealed. A painted ship, regardless of cloaking, would be lockable. An uncloaked painted ship would have a larger sig size. Of course, it'd come in a charge format for hybrids and projectiles so you could peg a person and prevent them from cloaking to escape.

Yeah. Oh, and while you're at it, make drills and salvagers able to drill and salvage live ships, because realism and the lols of a salvage battle cruiser chasing a Frigate around. xD

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6875494#post6875494 - Ship mounted explosives. Because explosions and Jita chaos.

Valaba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9868 - 2017-06-11 16:47:20 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Valaba wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Valaba wrote:
In continuation to my thread here, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=521404&find=unread

Basically, the responses can only mean one thing which you cannot possibly disagree with if you are ok with afk cloaking.

It means it's ok for a hotdropper to login before they go to work, stay cloaked all day, gain a superior tactical advantage since the system owners never know when your afk or not without any risk to the cloaker themselves. They decloak with covert ops cloak, which has instant locking, their bomber friends come in and whoever they have locked is done since they have instantly scrambled the player being attacked.

This is an incredibly dumb aspect of this game. Anyone who doesn't see the superior tactical advantage to this doesn't have a brain. I dare anyone here to explain how this doesn't give the cloaker a superior advantage with zero risk. I'm not against cloaking and active players. I'm against cloaking using inactive players to ensure a guaranteed kill.

The immature players can say oh you whiner, oh you null sec care bear, blah blah blah whatever you want to say. I really don't care. I'm just pointing out an obvious balance issue in the game which obviously is an issue if there is a sticky thread on it. Duh....

And I won't mention you by name since it would be against forum policy, but the idiots who said I should post with my real character. Yeah sure lol. That would be even more dumb than the post. Grievers love to grief because their real lives are sad. I'll give you one hint. If you can figure it out you've earned it. I live in Fountain Region


Or you could be less terrible.

1. If he logs in and goes to work, he won't be locking or scramming anyone, this will be discernible via killboards. Go look through them and see when the player tends to get his kills.

2. You can...you know, get in fleet, get on comms and people can rat while in fleet with appropriately fit ships. Somebody gets into trouble, you go help each other out.


Coming from someone who always has live fleets available at their beck and call. The largest Alliance in the game.... Maybe you should think about the environment you live in before making such a ridiculous post. You reside in fantasy null.


Maybe you should look at a person's corp and alliance history before spouting off and letting everyone know what an idiot you are. I used to be in a primarily Euro TZ corp/alliance (I am west coast US TZ). That was much smaller than GSF.

And if you guys can't have a standing fleet, comms, etc....well then maybe NS is not for you.



I really don't care about your game history, who you are, or where you come from. The fact is, your current present title says goons. That's who you are. i use to be blah blah blah..... lol You are insignificant and have no life judging by your number of posts on here. Zero risk is afk cloak camping when you can never be found and the system corporation has no choice but to eventually play. Then your friends can hot-drop easy capital targets. It's a superior tactical advantage in eve game play that is completely unbalanced due to the no risk factor to the 24 hour all day cloaker. It's the other way around, you are the idiot here.
Shadowlance
Shadow Wings.
#9869 - 2017-06-11 17:56:57 UTC
Simpliest solution of "problem" with afk-cloaking is not showing players in local chat! Just like it's in wh space.

The real problem is in afk-ratting(+botting) with no risk - and whining of these carebears about cloaked payers...
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#9870 - 2017-06-11 19:43:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Shadowlance wrote:
Simpliest solution of "problem" with afk-cloaking is not showing players in local chat! Just like it's in wh space.

The real problem is in afk-ratting(+botting) with no risk - and whining of these carebears about cloaked payers...


Go to WH space if local upsets you!

Nope it is nothing to do with botting and everything to do with what comes out of a cyno on top of you....

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9871 - 2017-06-11 23:59:10 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Shadowlance wrote:
Simpliest solution of "problem" with afk-cloaking is not showing players in local chat! Just like it's in wh space.

The real problem is in afk-ratting(+botting) with no risk - and whining of these carebears about cloaked payers...


Go to WH space if local upsets you!

Nope it is nothing to do with botting and everything to do with what comes out of a cyno on top of you....


Goto hisec if afk cloakers in local upset you.

See, i can be as ignorant as you!

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9872 - 2017-06-12 04:53:57 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
So local, along with boatloads of player effort and safe flying practices, allows for the mitigation of risk, which is OK so long as you are spoonfed with a mechanic to completely remove any benefit from the player effort and safe flying. Gotcha.


Boatloads? Watching local is that hard for you? Putting the intel channel next too is hard? Jesus. Roll

Oh and lets not forgot that you are gaining resources, the person sitting at a safe and cloaked is not. That right there makes it much more reasonable.



So who is being dishonest?

It takes player effort to clear and maintain a solar system so that local is useful. It takes player effort to establish active intel channels so that they can be used at all.

I mean, tell me again what happens if you just ignore local? Don't you like explode or something because a hunter finds and shoots you? It's not safety keeping your targets intact, it's the pilots actions-- and those of his allies, and they go deeper than just watching local to make it happen. Unlike the consequence free button press of the cloakers cloak.


Now, cloaks aren't the solution to ISK faucets. Turns out the Devs can actually just directly turn that up or down at need. Or they could add various useful services that cost ISK to provlde more drains while improving gameplay. Or no doubt half a hundred other ways we don't even know about that are better than enabling one of the worst game design elements since the invention of the transistor.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9873 - 2017-06-12 05:17:42 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
So local, along with boatloads of player effort and safe flying practices, allows for the mitigation of risk, which is OK so long as you are spoonfed with a mechanic to completely remove any benefit from the player effort and safe flying. Gotcha.


Boatloads? Watching local is that hard for you? Putting the intel channel next too is hard? Jesus. Roll

Oh and lets not forgot that you are gaining resources, the person sitting at a safe and cloaked is not. That right there makes it much more reasonable.



So who is being dishonest?

It takes player effort to clear and maintain a solar system so that local is useful. It takes player effort to establish active intel channels so that they can be used at all.


It takes a group of people to clear, take and hold a system. Yet you want to be safer by NOT using a group. By being solo.

Mike Voidstar wrote:
I mean, tell me again what happens if you just ignore local? Don't you like explode or something because a hunter finds and shoots you? It's not safety keeping your targets intact, it's the pilots actions-- and those of his allies, and they go deeper than just watching local to make it happen. Unlike the consequence free button press of the cloakers cloak.


Yes, if you ignore local and intel channels you increase your risk while gathering resources or getting ISK. Working as intended.

Mike Voidstar wrote:
Now, cloaks aren't the solution to ISK faucets. Turns out the Devs can actually just directly turn that up or down at need. Or they could add various useful services that cost ISK to provlde more drains while improving gameplay. Or no doubt half a hundred other ways we don't even know about that are better than enabling one of the worst game design elements since the invention of the transistor.


No they can't. ISK is not a fiat currency where CCP has control over it like IRL governments. ISK is a synthetic commodity currency. Like how bitcoin turns electricity into bitcoins, players turn their leisure time into ISK.

And note I said ISK and resource gathering. You should not be allowed to do it with impunity or too much safety.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#9874 - 2017-06-12 12:18:40 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
It takes player effort to clear and maintain a solar system so that local is useful. It takes player effort to establish active intel channels so that they can be used at all.


Not really. Most of nullsec is empty by default, because nobody wants to be there. It takes player effort to secure a system (and the valuable moon mining and such) but once a player empire is established low-risk PvE is easy.

And intel channels may take a bit of work, but they aren't really necessary. Individual players watching local and clicking "dock" as soon as a non-blue player appears in local will still be 99.9999999999999% safe.

Quote:
I mean, tell me again what happens if you just ignore local?


Why are we talking about something that only stupid players do? We might as well discuss what happens if an AFK cloaker decides to decloak for no apparent reason before going AFK.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9875 - 2017-06-12 19:17:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
Teckos Pech wrote:

No they can't. ISK is not a fiat currency where CCP has control over it like IRL governments. ISK is a synthetic commodity currency. Like how bitcoin turns electricity into bitcoins, players turn their leisure time into ISK.

And note I said ISK and resource gathering. You should not be allowed to do it with impunity or too much safety.


Yes. They can.

Today a given rat has 1.2 million ISK bounty awarded upon destruction. Devs can simply make the same rat award only 1.2 ISK tomorrow, if they choose. Obviously extreme, but fully within their ability. Hell, if they needed to they could require a 'casing' for ammunition that cost ISK rather than just having them made from pure minerals, that would suck ISK out of the economy like no tomorrow.

They have control over how many minerals spawn, where they spawn. Control over refining rates, and costs. Pretty much everything.

So no, they don't have to give you your kills on a silver platter with garnish to control ISK faucets. They can actually allow for interactive gameplay *and* maintain fiscal balance at the same time. Not really a related thing at all.

Sure, there should be challenges to that gameplay. There should be challenges to the opposing gameplay too. Putting all the burden on one side while granting the other a hard mechanical advantage to a blueball win isn't balanced.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9876 - 2017-06-12 19:21:21 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
It takes player effort to clear and maintain a solar system so that local is useful. It takes player effort to establish active intel channels so that they can be used at all.


Not really. Most of nullsec is empty by default, because nobody wants to be there. It takes player effort to secure a system (and the valuable moon mining and such) but once a player empire is established low-risk PvE is easy.

And intel channels may take a bit of work, but they aren't really necessary. Individual players watching local and clicking "dock" as soon as a non-blue player appears in local will still be 99.9999999999999% safe.

Quote:
I mean, tell me again what happens if you just ignore local?


Why are we talking about something that only stupid players do? We might as well discuss what happens if an AFK cloaker decides to decloak for no apparent reason before going AFK.



Because you don't care about the effort does not make it cease to exist. Part of that effort was choosing a remote patch of space and moving there in the first place. If there wasn't any sort of defense going on, this conversation would never have happened.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9877 - 2017-06-12 22:03:42 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Aeryn Atropos wrote:
Here this is reality

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-may-2017/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=news&utm_content=MER


there is not enough destruction and risk to merit the profits made in Null. It is completely unbalancing the rest of the game. That is why they are nerfing carriers. CCP Quant said as much. Its not limited to goons, its every ratter/miner out there that turns on the isk/mineral faucet when local is clear and it is all safe. Then docks up as soon as a potential threat enters the system. Everyone knows there is no amount of "getting Gud" that can prevent people docking the moment you appear in local. The only people that get caught are the ones who don't pay attention.

Do 100mn VNI's get caught? I'm sure they do, people run those specifically so they don't have to pay attention to what they are doing. Because VNI's are disposable the risk/reward is not balanced.

Guess what? the CV nerf wont help, because it isn't the problem. The problem is the safety of Null which is based on the intel local provides. After people turn away from carrier ratting they will go on to the next flavor of the month ratting ship, which will in turn get whacked by the nerf bat. Its your denial which is Sad.


There is a cold war arms race going on, failing to understand that is rather wow just wow. And people coming into our systems when we are all on and horny get blown up as we stream out in all manner of bling ships, seriously. I have on my shopping list about three dreads two FAX's and a Super, getting ready for when the Goons come out of Delve. CCP are merely cutting off the other groups from matching the Goons who have a hell of a head start, but that is a challenge, we have to beat them in the field and wear them out with blown up pixels.

Stop whining and play the game, if you don't like the balance stop playing that part, I stopped mining when all the ships had the tank of a wet paper bag, I stopped using a freighter when there was no counter to bumping within reasonable play, you should stop trying to kill stuff in null if local unsettles you so much. Seriously sabres and interceptors are good fun, I guess you do not like dying..., WH bears.... I disagree taht it is only people who are inattentive, you have to force mistakes, I explained how to do it earlier in this thread and changed the mind of one player in doing so, you just need to get better at Eve, it is however not easy.

A VNI fully fitted is about 150m on contracts for me, still a loss, that is ten percent towards another dread hull and means I have to do more boring ratting.

And do you know what my carrier is solely fitted with space superiority fighters, I am not bothered at all because it is merely a tool to defang supers, so what...., no issue for me at all...

PS I am not trying to say I am some super duper tackle player, I am not, I leave people who are better than me to do it, though I can do it, the tactics to use are to me pretty obvious and if you have ratted in carriers, supers, VNI's etc, you will know what to force, but anyway, your call to just blame local instead of a lack of effort on your part...

NB. A hunter is not someone who always gets that instant kill, if you want that go and play a FPS.


This is not a cold war arms race. that is a load of crap. That would not account for a 757% increase in the money supply growth.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9878 - 2017-06-12 22:13:39 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

No they can't. ISK is not a fiat currency where CCP has control over it like IRL governments. ISK is a synthetic commodity currency. Like how bitcoin turns electricity into bitcoins, players turn their leisure time into ISK.

And note I said ISK and resource gathering. You should not be allowed to do it with impunity or too much safety.


Yes. They can.

Today a given rat has 1.2 million ISK bounty awarded upon destruction. Devs can simply make the same rat award only 1.2 ISK tomorrow, if they choose. Obviously extreme, but fully within their ability. Hell, if they needed to they could require a 'casing' for ammunition that cost ISK rather than just having them made from pure minerals, that would suck ISK out of the economy like no tomorrow.

They have control over how many minerals spawn, where they spawn. Control over refining rates, and costs. Pretty much everything.

So no, they don't have to give you your kills on a silver platter with garnish to control ISK faucets. They can actually allow for interactive gameplay *and* maintain fiscal balance at the same time. Not really a related thing at all.

Sure, there should be challenges to that gameplay. There should be challenges to the opposing gameplay too. Putting all the burden on one side while granting the other a hard mechanical advantage to a blueball win isn't balanced.


Do they have that power? Sure.

Want to know what would happen if they used it? The game would be in a very, very bad place. Might as well just turn of the servers in that case.

One reason why people play this game for years and have complex plans is because those players have trust that CCP is not going to suddenly turn around and screw over everyone by monkeying with the economy like that. And once CCP does it. That's it, game over. The trust is gone and will be nearly impossible to bring it back.

Seriously, why can't the U.S. go back on the gold standard? It would come under immediate speculative attack. And that attack would make going back off the gold standard an inevitability. So even though the U.S. government has the legal means and the coercive means to try and go back on a gold standard it can't.

CCP is in the same basket. If they fiddle with things too much they'll screw up their game beyond repair. This is why they are nerfing carriers and supers, they are generating too much ISK.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

gunneman
No Star Michellin but Chef Foundation
#9879 - 2017-06-20 08:25:48 UTC
a tricky way to scan them down should be integrated.

if he move ... cloaked... u find him faster then he is sitting like a mouse somewhere.
grgjegb gergerg
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9880 - 2017-06-21 04:09:19 UTC
I like deployables.

Here's a notion. Low-powered, it would mainly be useful in null against AFK cloakers, yet so benign it would be fine (if pointless) to use in highsec or lowsec. Probably not wormholes, though.

Deployable. Does only one thing: detects any warp initiated by a cloaked ship in the system. About as tough as a Depot, but no reinforce timer. That's all it probably needs to do. Maybe a 3-minute anchor or so, instant-scoop.

MAYBE it could detect ships uncloaking in system as well? MAYBE it could filter by non-blues?


Does absolutely nothing about locating or interacting with cloaked ships. It would just pop a special chat window for corp (+alliance?) members in system, and put in a little announce whenever an non-blue warped while cloaked, or decloaks. Or whatever. Does not say who, does not say where, does not say what (but warps will obviously be a covops-type.)

So, it would obviously be pretty garbage in hisec, pretty meh in lowsec, and very situational in nullsec.


OR: two versions? One that fits in ship cargo holds, and does no blue filtering. Another more permanent corp-class structure, with blue filtering, but requires a Citadel nearby?


So people can still get dropped on just as much. And if the cloaker doesn't like their warps being announced, they can just go to the next-door system.