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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Wilben Silverkin
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#921 - 2017-06-09 22:16:37 UTC
Are you serious? Does ccp even realize what the hell they are doing?
Blaze Tiberius
Brute Force Solutions.
Sigma Grindset
#922 - 2017-06-09 22:18:31 UTC
These changes and nerfs to Carriers and Supers hurt your oldest and most loyal player base, CCP. The players who spent YEARS training into these ships. When a Rattlesnake can out DPS a T2 fit Carrier, you messed up. This is another money grab, plain and simple. You want to cut off income streams so that players are forced to buy more Plex. Why don't you focus on making changes that will generate meaningful content for your players instead?
6 Vinatieri
#923 - 2017-06-09 22:22:01 UTC
hi, can you not?

I am literally training to solo drop null ratting carriers. & you've nerf supers twice since i started. You are continuously making eve single player near impossible. Now you are punishing us because what? A bunch of PVE bads get all no life with killing bots?

Heres some ideas, how about instead of nerfing the play style of various PVP carriers. You nerf the isk faucet itself. Add a fatigue mechanic to bounty payout. Or how about you give rats specific resistances to fighter damage. Or hell if its f1 fleet monkeys you are worried about, add a fighter fatigue mechanic. The longer the period of time you use them, the less effective they are. Or even the more fighters there are in a fleet the less effective they are. Fighters are already easy to kill, stop making them useless please.

A super is worth like $300-400 USD. IT SHOULD BE STRONG.

I thought of all this before i had my morning coffee. Problem solving isn't hard, scripting is.


blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#924 - 2017-06-09 22:23:27 UTC
Overwhelmingly negative response to this move, I think this last second "ninja nerf" really needs to be pulled back temporarily so CCP can assess whether this is something they should communicate with the players with a bit more--many of us have spent thousands on this game over the years and this feels like a punch in the teeth to our endgame ships many have worked hard to invest in and acquire.
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#925 - 2017-06-09 22:23:32 UTC
Wilben Silverkin wrote:
Are you serious? Does ccp even realize what the hell they are doing?

Of course they are serious!
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#926 - 2017-06-09 22:26:21 UTC
Welp, didn't need to actually use this character anyway. I'm sure the 46 million SP I have invested into flying supers will be very useful now that they're trash... Since my other characters are all trained to fly pirate battleships and T3 cruisers, it appears about 70% of my training and net worth just got nerfed down the drain in one go. I'll be back if Eve becomes playable again some day.
Ralen Zateki
Gladiators of Rage
HERO Coalition.
#927 - 2017-06-09 22:27:25 UTC
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:
This whole thing is had to call bullshit.

Yeah, capital ships are gives you easy ISK, but why you had to wait with that? PL, NC. and goon now ratted enough? They mining and ratting with these ships 23/7. This do bad for the market, not those, who use it ratting 1-2 hours. Or did you ever tried to farm your monthly plex? And after that you should buy some ships etc to actually really play the game not just farm yourself over the days.

I'm thinking this is the most subtle but important flaw in CCP thinking. And I'm one that usually defends CCP to a degree against the grrrr change is bad crowd.

It's a reward to players who put the time and risk into fielding a cap or super to make ISK. I think most peeps can only stand to rat for about 2 hours or so anyway b/c ratting is so f-ing terrible and uncreative anyway. There's a minority of risk averse peeps in every mid to large alliance that sit and rat ALL ******* DAY. I suspect that's the real problem.

Trust me CCP. No body logs into this game with the primary purpose of engaging in your **** PVE options anyway.

So let's just screw everyone and kneecap the already questionable PVP value of these ships and do nothing at all about some of the root causes?

O, and not to mention - you've done pretty good the last few years announcing changes ahead of time and allowing for a decent back and forth. But on this one you pop out an announcement of this size 4-5 days before the changes are tee'd up to hit? Nice PR. You get what you deserve for this one, what exactly did you expect was going to happen?

ISK supply a problem? Fine. I get it. Those numbers don't lie. But damn, maybe you should just hang a sign around your neck that says "plz kick me in the balls as hard as you can." Will probably be less painful than the subs your gonna lose on this one.

I know I'll likely unsub at least one and likely 2 characters until they are actually worth the time I put into them. And no, not just cuz PVE nerf... cuz carrier's are one of our mainline combat doctrines and we prolly won't be able to use 'em much.

I mean ... did it even freaking dawn on you that people actually like to use carriers and supers. Hell...most duders wouldn't mind losing one now and then if we could actually use 'em more often....


PS - So maybe you can also understand some of the rage - aside from the stupid approach - I'm sure there are people like me who just purchased a 2nd carrier or just purchased a super and BAM, out of the BLUE you drop this **** on 'em.

Kaze Mester
Caldari State
#928 - 2017-06-09 22:28:18 UTC
6 Vinatieri wrote:

I thought of all this before i had my morning coffee. Problem solving isn't hard, scripting is.

"Earning the most money with the least ammount of energy invested" does not start at scripting my friend.
Cpt WhiteEye
The All-Seeing Eye
#929 - 2017-06-09 22:31:02 UTC
So you telling me I should start 10 account and train them to AFK VNIs while i play world of tanks and make 10 times as much isk as i do now ratting with a super? This is what you want us to do dont you?

You have to warp the VNIs once every 45 minutes.

Guess what i bet you never did PVE with a Super before. You have to click 1 at least every second. And thats the relaxed ratting peace.

And what are supers and carriers gonna be used after this? Hauling ships maybe?
They will be useless for PVE and useless for PVP as well.

GJ removing 2 shipclass from the actively used ships list.

You train 20-25 milion SP just to use the Super on a level it makes dank ticks.
You spend 30-35 bilion isk on the ship+fit+fighters ect.

So you want to turn this to a level where a Rattlesnake will do just as fine as a Carrier
Or i can just go run a few accoutns afk ratting and have a combined of less SP and money invested in them making actually more isk.

But who needs time for pvp anyway this game isabout buying PLEX
You want to turn ppl into ratting machines with more ****** ships and make them spend more time actively doing absolutely nothing but getting money to play.

Yes i do 100m ticks with my Super and guess what i ******* invested a lot into it so i can do that.
Go Nerf it and you will end up seeing a lot of new aplha toons very soon.
Best businnes plan ever.

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#930 - 2017-06-09 22:32:06 UTC
Ralen Zateki wrote:
Trust me CCP. No body logs into this game with the primary purpose of engaging in your **** PVE options anyway.

really, the comments in this thread disagree with that statement...

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Mikasa Leonhardt
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#931 - 2017-06-09 22:32:07 UTC
Proof CCP doesn't have an idea what the F they are doing. Did the company brain cell get misplaced?

maybe you should start playing your own game?
Captain jdd
#932 - 2017-06-09 22:35:08 UTC
Really good change CCP.
Ebony Texas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#933 - 2017-06-09 22:35:20 UTC
Objectless Hatred wrote:
Aldeskwatso wrote:
Any activity that generates excessive amounts of ISK compared to its exposure to risk should be attempted to be rebalanced. So if carriers/supercarriers can be used to make it way to easy to the point it is throwing off a healthy balance between risk vs reward etc. they should be rebalanced somehow to counter this kind of abuse. I understand why some get salty if their cashcows get hurt by this but there is a bigger picture here. It's challenge. In my oppinion its still way to easy to make things easy for yourself to the point ISK is never an obstacle. But it also takes away a lot of challenge. And for me nothing kills a game more then lack of challenge. As a result I avoid activities that abuse an inbalance to generate my ISK and this forces me to look at other means to support myself. And that has changed my outlook on the game a lot in the best way possible. If I didn't do this I would've quit the game because of it.

So I for one am happy CCP does something about these things. And I'm sure those that aren't happy about it now will adapt and gravitate towards the next best thing. As for PvP use. It will likely change but same there as well. If the changes make them obsolete all together I'm sure it will get fixed. And should be fixed. But give people time to come up with creative adaptations.

Abuse? I guess legitimately using a carrier/super to rat in is abuse but running incursions for 23 hours a day in a blinged ship and pod in the safety of high sec with ZERO risk is not abuse...

hell you can make even more isk in high-sec incursions than in null sec incursions!... yet they don't see it that way..i mean ffs their denial makes them complete total jackasses!
Crash 888
#934 - 2017-06-09 22:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Crash 888
Kaze Mester wrote:
He is getting downvoted because of his "idontgiveafukaboutevecommunity" style not because of his explanation.
They generated their own "problem" and i think this is not the right way to deal with it.
And this "data guy" forgets one really important thing: economy doesn't live without customers.

well that's just Icelandic economic tradition
don't worry, they get it right eventually
Tobias Frank
#935 - 2017-06-09 22:35:47 UTC
260M ticks, lmao.
Kaze Mester
Caldari State
#936 - 2017-06-09 22:37:05 UTC
Mikasa Leonhardt wrote:
Proof CCP doesn't have an idea what the F they are doing. Did the company brain cell get misplaced?

maybe you should start playing your own game?

We have been talking about that a couple pages before. Roll back and enjoy the negligence of CCP.
al'Lan Athonille
Brute Force Solutions.
Sigma Grindset
#937 - 2017-06-09 22:41:19 UTC  |  Edited by: al'Lan Athonille

...Really? The complaint seems to be that those who risk the most isk to make it, are making the most isk. Isn't that how this game is supposed to go? Isk = risk and all?

I'd also like to point out the backwards-thinking it takes to nerf a PvP ship and it's PvP abilities for it's performance in PvE. The problem seems to be a simple one - ratting is an isk faucet. The solution should be fairly simple - bounties are that faucet, control the bounties.

Why not -

Nerf bounties by 5% and encourage people to actually use an ESS? The ESS is a target, causes content, and ships get blown up removing isk from the game.

Also, I'd like to point out, this isn't the 1% being affected as you claim,, it's your standard null line players.

Your out-of-touch allegations and cherry-picking of stats to support your nerf is alarming as a long-time player.

CCP, I'm certain I speak for a number of us, your customers, when I say:
Enough with the cash-grabs!
Ian Hestia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#938 - 2017-06-09 22:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ian Hestia
Now it takes almost two minutes for Light fighters to kill a rat frigate. lol, 58 damage to a rat frigate every cycle. And the heavy fighter did less then CCP has announced. 25%? no, it's more than 25%. Thank you CCP. My rattlesnake can kill a site faster than my Hel now. What a "GOOD CHANGE" for a fuking 30B or more captial ship. What a **** change.

What's the role for a Carrier right now? seriously! It's a trash in both PVE and PVP. What's the reason piloting Carrier now, please tell us, CCP. Carrier is DEAD.
Cpt WhiteEye
The All-Seeing Eye
#939 - 2017-06-09 22:42:49 UTC
260m tick id like that.
Bet they only rat with the polaris ships to have thoose ticks and never actually used a Super to rat. Geez
Aldent Arkanon
Bad Game Design
#940 - 2017-06-09 22:43:23 UTC
CCP Quant wrote:
What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago.
Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency.
This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr** pr. account** (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT.
Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind.
Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders.

Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think...

I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever.

Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways.