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[Summer] Pirate Battleship Cost Intervention

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NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#121 - 2017-06-09 05:27:46 UTC
Let's say that the Machariel goes from 400 to like 600-650 mill isk. If that happens, i wont care. If the Machariel goes from 400 to 800 mill - 1 bill isk, i will be angry about that.

A Machariel and Rattlesnake is the 2 main Battleships i use now, so it would be bad to let them be super expensive.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#122 - 2017-06-09 06:04:21 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Let's say that the Machariel goes from 400 to like 600-650 mill isk. If that happens, i wont care. If the Machariel goes from 400 to 800 mill - 1 bill isk, i will be angry about that.

A Machariel and Rattlesnake is the 2 main Battleships i use now, so it would be bad to let them be super expensive.


Really? It would be bad to let them be super expensive (if we're really calling a billion super-expensiveRoll)?

Objectively bad, or just bad for you?

Maybe poors should use something else for their "main" battleships?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#123 - 2017-06-09 06:08:00 UTC
Something, something, market speculation. Fozzman please, you could nerf spawn rate and nobody will notice for month or two. Then wrote this.

As for production cost:

T1->Navy->T2->Faction (maybe take a look at marauder cost along with faction hulls)

For the love of God please do something with data sites this time, you have great opportunity with citadels yet you didn't make the move.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2017-06-09 06:10:16 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Mieyli
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Maybe poors should use something else for their "main" battleships?

like a t3c you mean
what other alternatives are there
anyway judging by your replies in this thread and looking at your corp name
seems like youre one of the people this change is gonna benefit
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#125 - 2017-06-09 06:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
JC Mieyli wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Maybe poors should use something else for their "main" battleships?

like a t3c you mean
what other alternatives are there
anyway judging by your replies in this thread and looking at your corp name
seems like youre one of the people this change is gonna benefit


Believe it or not, there are a dozen (!) other battleships in the 150-200M price range, and 8 more in the 3-400M price range, that aren't directly affected by these changes.

Maybe try some of those.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
GROUND XERO
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#126 - 2017-06-09 06:21:16 UTC

- pirate faction changes incomming ...... i don´t like it but it will have an effect :
1. only rich dudes can afford to fly it as doctrine, like in the old times when a sword was worth like 28 pigs or a horse!
2. someone is becomming rich ...because of leaks (you can check market datas if you like)
3. we might see "cool" doctrines again like "hellcats" or stuff like that .... only to see them burning ..... because of the rich guys

NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2017-06-09 06:24:27 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Maybe poors should use something else for their "main" battleships?

like a t3c you mean
what other alternatives are there
anyway judging by your replies in this thread and looking at your corp name
seems like youre one of the people this change is gonna benefit


Believe it or not, there are a dozen (!) other battleships in the 150-200M price range, and 8 more in the 3-400M price range, that aren't directly affected by these changes.

Maybe try some of those.

no thanks theyre garbage
reprocess fodder
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#128 - 2017-06-09 06:31:47 UTC
JC Mieyli wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Maybe poors should use something else for their "main" battleships?

like a t3c you mean
what other alternatives are there
anyway judging by your replies in this thread and looking at your corp name
seems like youre one of the people this change is gonna benefit


Believe it or not, there are a dozen (!) other battleships in the 150-200M price range, and 8 more in the 3-400M price range, that aren't directly affected by these changes.

Maybe try some of those.

no thanks theyre garbage
reprocess fodder


That's the thing - they're really not, except they're basically in the same price-class as pirate BS and, in that context, they provide very poor value/price:performance.

Compare this to cruisers, where a popular pirate hull like the Gila is about 25x the cost of a popular T1 hull like the Caracal or Vexor.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#129 - 2017-06-09 06:37:41 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Really? It would be bad to let them be super expensive (if we're really calling a billion super-expensiveRoll)?

Objectively bad, or just bad for you?

Maybe poors should use something else for their "main" battleships?

Yes, going over a billion isk for a Pirate Battleship is expensive. I had a Vindicator some years ago that did cost 1.3 bill isk which was really expensive.

It would be bad for alot of us and not just me, even though alot of us isn't poor.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2017-06-09 06:43:11 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
That's the thing - they're really not

i know you got an overstock of crappy t1 bses you need to clear out
but thats called false advertising
Kendarr
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#131 - 2017-06-09 06:48:56 UTC
Thank for for planning to make T1 BS great again.

Zebra-Corp
Karmen Baric
Doomheim
#132 - 2017-06-09 06:53:31 UTC
Rarilmar wrote:
This should have been done by silently dropping the rates every month for about 3-6 months instead of making this announcement that nuked the market in an hour.


Yes exactly this.

The way this was done has screwed some players over and made others a fortune..... makes me want to not play this game tbh.
Ice Ice1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2017-06-09 07:38:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
with moderate changes to the chance of escalations spawning from the most popular high-end anomalies.


This will affect drone horde anom. and 10/10?
Beta Maoye
#134 - 2017-06-09 07:51:02 UTC
I suggest dev issuing a statement next week that after careful consideration, the pirate battleship change is not necessary and BPC will drop as usual. Collect salts from speculators.
Blazemonger
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#135 - 2017-06-09 08:01:59 UTC
So much for EVE being a player driven economy.. CCP makes changes, sees they do not have the desired effect (to them) later on and then nerfs things to fall in line with what they want to see..

What is going to happen is traders will start stockpiling ships, then rake in the profits when the prices soar .. It's your typical rich getting richer scheme and CCP is willingly providing it...
lorddlo25
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#136 - 2017-06-09 08:03:00 UTC  |  Edited by: lorddlo25
ok so CCP can you please tell us all which ship's you would like us to use for PVP and PVE or we could all just go around in carriers as everything else is pretty much pointless in null sec space which is what will happen.

I mean back in the old days BS's was sweet in 0.0 you had ravens / mega's and scorpion fleets aswell as apoc's but thay had been made obsolete due to changes over time and the fact other ship's did it better not so much cheaper but better.

I don't mind changes as long as it brings back those type's of fleets how ever it wont as the cost is not a factor TBH it's about numbers now.

also with dwindling player base you see numbers active of like max 40k now how many of those are multi accounts as some players have 10+ mining chars.

I am a very old player that came back just before alpha and already I am thinking about jacking it in as no matter what we use or do as the player base it will get hit by the nerf hammer as that's what you CCP are forcing us to use not by our choice but due to it being the best at what the ship does for what we need it for.

Blazemonger wrote:
So much for EVE being a player driven economy.. CCP makes changes, sees they do not have the desired effect (to them) later on and then nerfs things to fall in line with what they want to see..

What is going to happen is traders will start stockpiling ships, then rake in the profits when the prices soar .. It's your typical rich getting richer scheme and CCP is willingly providing it...


also player driven economy is done by the player base once CCP medal in it it's no longer player driven it is manipulated by CCP and driven by CCP!! so well said Blazemonger ..
Logan Jakal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2017-06-09 08:20:25 UTC
RushRushRush Aishai wrote:
dont know how it leaked
but it happened
how could we stand this?!!


It's called CSM bud.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#138 - 2017-06-09 08:24:36 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Vash Bloodstone wrote:
Something about this rubs me the wrong way.

I haven't played a lot recently, but why is this proliferation of pirate battleships considered a problem? Maybe someone can clarify for me?


Sure.

Quote:
Are there too many gangs of pirate battleships roaming around?


Gangs? Try mainline fleet doctrines. T1 and navy BS have been almost completely supplanted by pirate BS.

Do you really not see why that's a problem?
T1 BS are shite in comparison, which IS the problem. If there was a viable alternative for the Mach it wouldn't automatically be the go to.

As for Navy versions, being LP based as soon as one sees more than average use the price goes up to match and demand will always outstrip supply. Napocs were a thing but got priced out of usefulness..

Making pirate ships cost more isn't going to "fix" any problems - Those who can afford them will still use them, those who can't or don't want to spend the extra will keep complaining - Devs will keep increasing costs and reducing supply until they once again become a rarely used niche class of ships.




It's supposed to be the case that those who can afford/feel they're worth it use them. Those who don't will use something cheaper. That isn't a problem, especially when the general premise is linear power gains for exponential increases in cost.

The problem is that, right now, the list of people who can afford them and feel they're worth it is... basically everyone, because the pricing, at present, offers linear power gains for linear increases in cost.
So you would rather have it so those who can afford it will always win because the rest just can't hope to compete.
I'm sorry but that is Fozzie logic which I am afraid is really bad for the game.

Game balance is about EVERYONE having the same opportunities in all aspects of the game as long as they put in the effort. What is happening is - Opportunity is being limited by Devs to those who can afford it, BAD game design...

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#139 - 2017-06-09 08:30:10 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:


Making pirate ships cost more isn't going to "fix" any problems - Those who can afford them will still use them



Am I correct in saying that you think a massive price increase of 2-3x current prices is going to result in the number of people "who can afford them" remaining approximately the same? Because if that's indeed what you think, you're insane. And if that's not what you meant, then the change has meaning and you don't really have a point.

Ok, the doctrine I fly is around 750 mil now including fit. Double the price of the hull it is still around a bil and will still perform its role better than any other battleship in the game, which is why it is used in the first place. Even at a bil for the hull (which is likely), some groups will still use them as long as supply is viable.

So, you tell me if i have a point or not.
NB; we generally field 150 + Machs at a time, with no SRP for losses - EVERYONE in alliance has one or more in their hangers.

The only real alternative is capitals and with pirate battleships (Machs) being reduced to niche use, the largest capital groups will never be contested. How good will this be for Eve overall?

-- - -- - -- - --
When the cost to play a game becomes too high - People find other games.
Right now CCP is headed toward the - It is costing too much zone.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#140 - 2017-06-09 09:02:27 UTC
Romvex wrote:
seems to be alot of unintelligent posters in here who can't understand how important this change is.

And at least one who posts an unintelligent reply with no reasoning or even thought put into it.

This change is nothing more than CCP trying to push prices up in the hope more people will buy Plex.

A triple increase to the cost pirate battleships is not needed.
Less drops = higher cost
Increased mineral use - higher cost
Another nerf to nulsec mining = higher cost

3 increases to how much a pirate battleship will cost, in one fell swoop.


Fozzie; Changing any aspect of the game to suit only the rich is not good game balance..

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.