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Get Rid of Faction Frigs/Cruisers from FW Plex's

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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#41 - 2017-06-04 12:03:56 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Quote:
So I'll just repeat the answer. Get Good, Get Friends, Stop Whining, And stop embarrassing yourself by telling the people who clearly do know more than you about this that they don't.


And this is why FW will die.

Because so many players on these forums are total dicks.

The only suggestions players ever give are: Git gud and git more ppl and stop QQ'ing

**** it, forget it, I'm out.

Try to do something nice for the game and you are all total dicks.

Go **** yourselves.


well good sir, feck you too.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2017-06-04 12:21:18 UTC
"Large dogs should be banned from parks cause they keep eating my rabbits when I take them to the park to play."

Seriously that is what you sound like.
Desmios Sanguis
10th Crusade
#43 - 2017-06-04 12:23:34 UTC
Tuttomenui II wrote:
"Large dogs should be banned from parks cause they keep eating my rabbits when I take them to the park to play."

Seriously that is what you sound like.




If you don't have anything constructive to add, f*ck off.

I'm tired of you holier-than-thou dickheads.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#44 - 2017-06-04 12:24:49 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Quote:
So I'll just repeat the answer. Get Good, Get Friends, Stop Whining, And stop embarrassing yourself by telling the people who clearly do know more than you about this that they don't.


And this is why FW will die.

Because so many players on these forums are total dicks.

The only suggestions players ever give are: Git gud and git more ppl and stop QQ'ing

**** it, forget it, I'm out.

Try to do something nice for the game and you are all total dicks.

Go **** yourselves.



See this is the problem with all this hands off parenting hard anti bullying and safe space.

People don't learn how not to have a tantrum even after 4 years old

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Desmios Sanguis
10th Crusade
#45 - 2017-06-04 12:27:12 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Quote:
So I'll just repeat the answer. Get Good, Get Friends, Stop Whining, And stop embarrassing yourself by telling the people who clearly do know more than you about this that they don't.


And this is why FW will die.

Because so many players on these forums are total dicks.

The only suggestions players ever give are: Git gud and git more ppl and stop QQ'ing

**** it, forget it, I'm out.

Try to do something nice for the game and you are all total dicks.

Go **** yourselves.



See this is the problem with all this hands off parenting hard anti bullying and safe space.

People don't learn how not to have a tantrum even after 4 years old


You people are the bullies. I came in very nicely and you were total assholes.

And now you are stooping low to insult someone's parents; I loved my parents, keep them out of this.

Go suck a **** ******.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2017-06-04 12:39:48 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:


You people are the bullies.


You were given good reasons why your idea will never happen short of Goe Rilla's Idea of adding lower tier sites for rookie ships. Faction ships are considered t1 hulls just have higher meta lvl.

You were also given good advice on how to beat factions ships.

Then you started being a bully. Telling these people with good advice they don't know what they are talking about.

Your tantrums just feed us. Be a little more professional and less salty and we won't have to call you out on it.
Desmios Sanguis
10th Crusade
#47 - 2017-06-04 12:40:51 UTC
Tuttomenui II wrote:
Desmios Sanguis wrote:


You people are the bullies.


You were given good reasons why your idea will never happen short of Goe Rilla's Idea of adding lower tier sites for rookie ships. Faction ships are considered t1 hulls just have higher meta lvl.

You were also given good advice on how to beat factions ships.

Then you started being a bully. Telling these people with good advice they don't know what they are talking about.

Your tantrums just feed us. Be a little more professional and less salty and we won't have to call you out on it.


Saying "git gud" is not good advice.

"we" what are you elite jerk-offs all a hive-mind now?
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2017-06-04 12:50:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuttomenui II
Desmios Sanguis wrote:


"we" what are you elite jerk-offs all a hive-mind now?


No. We just have a good understanding of why the game works the way it does. We understand and accept that Eve online is not fair. If it were fair it would not drive people to try to improve and take the challenges they face head on, or at least know when to run away so they can come back later stronger and more prepared for the situation.

If eve were fair, duels would initiate invulnerability shields around the participants preventing interference by others. <- This by the way would never happen. Unless someone completely out of touch some how gained control of CCP.

As far as i can see your the first person to talk about git good. And the first to openly attack people for their comments.

I should reiterate this one point btw. FW is not PVP training, and It is very much real PVP. The sites are primarily to induce PVP any PVE is purely secondary.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#49 - 2017-06-04 13:01:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
You people are the bullies.
Nope, we're realists. Your idea:
  • Is nothing that hasn't already come up
  • Won't work anyway, experienced players will always have the advantage, regardless of any artificial restrictions.
  • Demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge about the how and why of the game mechanics working as they do

    • Quote:
    before I came in very nicely and you were total assholes.
    You came here with the attitude that anybody that disagrees with your idea is a troll, calling dissenters bullies and arseholes, and dismissing their posts because they don't fall into line with your thoughts.

    That's not nice, it's arrogant and rude.

    Quote:
    And now you are stooping low to insult someone's parents; I loved my parents, keep them out of this.
    Agreed, insulting people's parents is out of line. The person you refer to didn't go so far as to blame your parents for your shortcomings, but suggested that several societal trends over the last few decades, including those regarding parenting, may have contributed to them

    Quote:
    Go suck a **** ******.
    Grow up. I'm assuming that you're an adult, stop being a petulant brat and act like one.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack
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    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #50 - 2017-06-04 13:52:55 UTC
    Desmios Sanguis wrote:


    Can you link me a worm or a garmur being killed by a t1 hull?

    I'd really like to see it.


    Ask and ye shall receive.


    Here are 3 Worms killed by solo T1 frigates within the last 5 days in FW lowsec.

    https://zkillboard.com/kill/62707483/
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/62678877/
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/62646422/

    Here are 3 Garmurs killed by solo T1 frigates within the last 5 days in FW lowsec.

    https://zkillboard.com/kill/62726249/
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/62675436/
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/62645356/


    I didn't even have to look very hard, this took 5 minutes of searching.
    Daichi Yamato
    Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
    #51 - 2017-06-04 16:38:22 UTC
    Noobs in T1 frigs will die to other T1 frigs played by more experienced and higher sp players.
    Freedom is a big deal in eve. That freedom comes with making fights unfair. All of us learn to choose our battles.
    Solo is hard. Very hard. You shouldn't expect to do it well. Barely any of us do. Make friends, seriously.

    Since when were t2 not allowed in fw? Is that new?

    EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

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    Jandice Ymladris
    Aurora Arcology
    #52 - 2017-06-04 20:24:37 UTC
    The issue Desmond with your proposal is this: You make sure the rookie has no chance at all in FW. Limit the sites to T1 only & the rookie can never win, as the gear is now equal, but the veteran has the skill-advantage (both in injected skills as gameplay skill)

    By allowing faction frigs in complexes, the rookie now stands more of a chance against the vet, as the vet can be flying a T1 for isk efficiency reasons, while the rookie flies a faction frig because it's cool, better or simply because he likes to be prepared against vets in T1 frigs.

    Sure, if the vet flies a faction frig, the rookie is still shafted. But as noted, tehre's now more variety in the situations, more chances for different outcomes & this makes it balanced. No more is it a pure skill question (T1 frig vs T1 frig= skill equation), but now gear also plays a role, allowing the rookie to overpower a vet with gear when he lacks the combat skills.

    Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
    Merin Ryskin
    Peregrine Industries
    #53 - 2017-06-05 06:38:22 UTC
    It's a legitimate point, if badly presented. Faction ships are T2 ships in all but name, with performance vastly exceeding what normal T1 ships are capable of. Banning them entirely as the OP suggests is obviously stupid, but they should be classified as T2 ships for FW plex purposes.
    Scialt
    Corporate Navy Police Force
    Sleep Reapers
    #54 - 2017-06-05 13:52:57 UTC
    I think it's reasonable to treat faction ships as T2 ships when seeing if it's allowed in a plex.

    T2 frigates aren't allowed in novice plexes. It's not unreasonable to say that faction and pirate frigates shouldn't be allowed either.

    That's as far as it should be taken though. Novice plexes should change to T1 non-faction/pirate only. Because... they're for novices. Once you move up to small... there are no T2 restrictions. So likewise there should be no faction ship restrictions.
    Piugattuk
    Litla Sundlaugin
    #55 - 2017-06-05 14:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
    This was brought up at the last fanfeast, according to CCP they were actually in the process of revamping FW to be a kinder genital...place, where only t-1 mods and ships are allowed, where instead of rockets, snowball fights determine the outcomes, and capturing the flag is replaced by sharing the candy cane pole, like that.
    xxxTRUSTxxx
    Galactic Rangers
    #56 - 2017-06-05 14:37:15 UTC
    Desmios Sanguis wrote:


    If you don't have anything constructive to add, f*ck off.

    I'm tired of you holier-than-thou dickheads.


    yes, calling those who you'd like to engage in this thread dickheads is how you rally people, you really believe that is how you get people interested in your point of view?

    no matter how right or wrong it is, insult the very people you want to listen and perhaps join in on your little idea?

    how about you realise FW was designed before alpha state clones where a thing, then let's look at what you would like.
    the removal of a ship type that's used by a lot of people to accomadate people who may or may not stick around to support a part of the game people have already invested in as omega states and have done for a few years now.

    how about being able to fly these ships is something people have to aim for, if an alpha wants to do stuff beyond alpha then they can and should be able but without CCP holding their hand through the process, they could sub up,, now that's good for the game. if ya want to fly shiney then ya gotta pay for it and don't **** and moan when ya lose it, first rule of EVE, fly what you can afford to lose.

    alpha states are getting more than enough to get them interested in the game.
    fecking with a part of the game that PVP pilots use a lot is not good for the game as a whole, which you say is why you would like this change, to make EVE better.

    we get it, you like FW and believe banning faction ships from some FW sites would be great to get more alphas into FW and help boost a part of the game you like and play.
    only thing is if its not a good idea, then no mater how many people you call a dickhead, or insult, or claim nah we're just not getting it. being a bad idea won't change.

    would it not be a better idea to ask people for their support on this idea you have?

    accept not everyone will agree with your views and perhaps take their point of view on board, oh and try not to call them dickheads and sling insults. that never ends well.
    Scialt
    Corporate Navy Police Force
    Sleep Reapers
    #57 - 2017-06-05 14:50:17 UTC
    Jandice Ymladris wrote:
    The issue Desmond with your proposal is this: You make sure the rookie has no chance at all in FW. Limit the sites to T1 only & the rookie can never win, as the gear is now equal, but the veteran has the skill-advantage (both in injected skills as gameplay skill)

    By allowing faction frigs in complexes, the rookie now stands more of a chance against the vet, as the vet can be flying a T1 for isk efficiency reasons, while the rookie flies a faction frig because it's cool, better or simply because he likes to be prepared against vets in T1 frigs.

    Sure, if the vet flies a faction frig, the rookie is still shafted. But as noted, tehre's now more variety in the situations, more chances for different outcomes & this makes it balanced. No more is it a pure skill question (T1 frig vs T1 frig= skill equation), but now gear also plays a role, allowing the rookie to overpower a vet with gear when he lacks the combat skills.


    I disagree with this completely.

    Because of the way T1 frigates are, if you bring the right kind of ship and put yourself in the right kind of situation you can still win even with sub par skills. I've won several T1 vs T1 battles in frigates with an alpha clone against those using T2 weapons. If I am kiting and I'm able to keep range while you're brawling... your guns matter very little as you can't hit me.

    I've never come even close to beating a Navy/Pirate ship with an alpha clone though. Even when I have the tactical advantage... it never matters. I die. Quickly.

    Skillpoints are a factor... but a small one. Gameplay skills are a major factor, but you get those by getting in close fights. Tristans, Breachers and Kestrels fighting navy and pirate ships don't result in close fights... at least not for me. I don't learn anything from those... other than that I should run anytime a non-T1 starts to warp in.
    Scialt
    Corporate Navy Police Force
    Sleep Reapers
    #58 - 2017-06-05 14:54:31 UTC
    Daichi Yamato wrote:
    Noobs in T1 frigs will die to other T1 frigs played by more experienced and higher sp players.
    Freedom is a big deal in eve. That freedom comes with making fights unfair. All of us learn to choose our battles.
    Solo is hard. Very hard. You shouldn't expect to do it well. Barely any of us do. Make friends, seriously.

    Since when were t2 not allowed in fw? Is that new?



    For a while.

    T2 frigates are not allowed in Novice plexes.
    T3 destroyers are not allowed in small plexes.
    T3 cruisers are not allowed in medium plexes.

    It's already been determined that T2 frigates are too powerful for Novice plexes. Given that... I don't see a problem with not having Pirate/faction frigates in novice plexes either.

    That's really the only change necessary. Novice plexes already bar interceptors, bombers and assault frigates. I personally would rather face a Wolf than a Worm to be honest.
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