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Increasing demand results in increased price

Author
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2017-05-25 15:54:58 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash).


Yes.

Ergo: CCPs earnings are sitting in PLEX stockpilers pockets and dependant on their actions.

Stockpilers control the ingame PLEX market via isk, and by extension, CCP's earning via cash.
1) If they withhold PLEX, CCP's income goes up, as supply decreases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX increases.
2) If they dump PLEX, CCP's income goes down, as supply increases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX decreases.

He whom controls the PLEX, controls EVE.

Shareholders may have control of CCP, but PLEX stockpilers control CCP's income.


That's like saying the miners hold EVE by the balls because no ship can exist without minerals.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#62 - 2017-05-25 16:39:28 UTC
I have suspicions that they are not holding CCP by the balls, it may look so, but in fact its pleasurable fondlling. Else CCP would not boast about record earnings and develop different games.
Clandestiny
Doomheim
#63 - 2017-05-25 16:51:15 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
$10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game....

May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA.

5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP) -$0.30
5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement & Entertainment -$14.95

So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25.

Thanks Smile

❤╫╟╖A╥╖K❤╙╢OU❤

🎯→🚀

Clandestiny
Doomheim
#64 - 2017-05-25 17:00:32 UTC

As opposed to 500 PLEX:

5/11/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP) -$0.40
5/11/17 EVE ONLINE ITEMS Amusement & Entertainment -$19.99

$20.39 for PLEX or $15.25 for a 1-month sub?

$15.25 is 39% higher than $10.95.

$20.39 is 34% higher than $15.25.

What gives?

❤╫╟╖A╥╖K❤╙╢OU❤

🎯→🚀

Salvos Rhoska
#65 - 2017-05-25 17:04:09 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash).


Yes.

Ergo: CCPs earnings are sitting in PLEX stockpilers pockets and dependant on their actions.

Stockpilers control the ingame PLEX market via isk, and by extension, CCP's earning via cash.
1) If they withhold PLEX, CCP's income goes up, as supply decreases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX increases.
2) If they dump PLEX, CCP's income goes down, as supply increases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX decreases.

He whom controls the PLEX, controls EVE.

Shareholders may have control of CCP, but PLEX stockpilers control CCP's income.


That's like saying the miners hold EVE by the balls because no ship can exist without minerals.


Yes.

Without minerals, no ships can be built.

Did you have a point?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#66 - 2017-05-25 17:49:45 UTC
Clandestiny wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
$10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game....

May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA.

5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP) -$0.30
5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement & Entertainment -$14.95

So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25.

Thanks Smile
There is no $10.95 option. There is a $131.40 option. If you want a months playtime for $10.95, it'll cost you a yearly sub.

But admitting that inconvenient truth sort of defeats the argument put forward.

Just ignore Sonya.

Mr Epeen Cool
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#67 - 2017-05-25 18:50:57 UTC
Clandestiny wrote:

As opposed to 500 PLEX:

5/11/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP) -$0.40
5/11/17 EVE ONLINE ITEMS Amusement & Entertainment -$19.99

$20.39 for PLEX or $15.25 for a 1-month sub?

$15.25 is 39% higher than $10.95.

$20.39 is 34% higher than $15.25.

What gives?


plex can be used for more than subbing an account and it is an in game tradable item so it sells for a premium. If you just want to sub you can pay for the sub directly for $15 per month. and as pointed out the 10.95 is the monthly rate when you sub for a full year at a time.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Defecanda
Ice Mining Boys
#68 - 2017-05-25 21:50:02 UTC
Where did all these virtual economists get their credentials?Shocked

[i][b]CCP Zulu.....      Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. [/b](i like to steal sigs)[/i]

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#69 - 2017-05-25 22:06:19 UTC
Defecanda wrote:
Where did all these virtual economists get their credentials?Shocked

eve taught me more on economics than school did.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#70 - 2017-05-25 23:28:24 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
There is no $10.95 option. There is a $131.40 option. If you want a months playtime for $10.95, it'll cost you a yearly sub.

But admitting that inconvenient truth sort of defeats the argument put forward.

Just ignore Sonya.

Mr Epeen Cool


Ah yes, today I learned a year's subscription divided by 12 months doesn't make sense. Not only are you an as*hole, but bad at math too.

But hey, you showed how big your epeen is with a forum alt, so we should take you super seriously

Good god the stupidity....

Try to hide your trolling harder, tiger.
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2017-05-25 23:58:03 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash).


Yes.

Ergo: CCPs earnings are sitting in PLEX stockpilers pockets and dependant on their actions.

Stockpilers control the ingame PLEX market via isk, and by extension, CCP's earning via cash.
1) If they withhold PLEX, CCP's income goes up, as supply decreases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX increases.
2) If they dump PLEX, CCP's income goes down, as supply increases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX decreases.

He whom controls the PLEX, controls EVE.

Shareholders may have control of CCP, but PLEX stockpilers control CCP's income.

Detail: PLEX in somebody's stockpile is considered as "services paid for but not rendered."

If the stockpilers dump and people actually use the PLEX, CCP can consider services paid for and rendered. CCP can't just go use the whole worth of all the PLEX because they have to consider what happens if the hoarders unsub a lot of accounts and start burning their stockpile for game time.

A signature :o

Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#72 - 2017-05-26 00:16:47 UTC
Thomas Lot wrote:
Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time.

And alot of players will stop playing.
Rena Skjem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2017-05-26 13:55:04 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I moved 1000 miles

You just moved from one city to another. But you moved INSIDE country.
You didnt need to get a VISA\greencard\whatever to move there or learn new language.

"moving" is difficult. Especially if it is not from one city to another inside country.
You were able to do it? Good for you, but dont assume that everyone is living in america and have a 10$/hour minimum wage.

Some places got 85$/month minimum wage. woah. LESS THEN A DOLLAH.
And those ppl can play BECAUSE they can convert real life time into gametime. So plex prices going up will make them quit and thats kinda bad.

But who am i? I dont live in America and i didnt move 1000miles so my opinion doesnt matter, amirite?
Salvos Rhoska
#74 - 2017-05-26 14:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Rena Skjem wrote:

Some places got 85$/month minimum wage. woah. LESS THEN A DOLLAH.
And those ppl can play BECAUSE they can convert real life time into gametime. So plex prices going up will make them quit and thats kinda bad.


Absolutely correct.

EVE is global, albeit the majority are in the US geographic region.

It is incontrovertible, that the higher PLEX rises ingame, the less activity this game will have.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2017-05-26 14:42:09 UTC
The last time CCP gave us demographics information was 2008, but there is no reason to think that this has shifted majorly.

The majority of EVE players come from places where EVE Online is easily affordable, the idea that *something*, some kind of intervention by someone (coughCCPLEASEcough) is just the same old self serving "I don't like plex prices but I don't want to use real money" BS that always happens when plex prices rise.

Oddly enough, it is the second reply in the last link that is spot on:

Mr Epeen wrote:
Here's the solution in one sentence:

If you find the price too high, don't buy it.

Glad I could help.

Mr Epeen Cool
Salvos Rhoska
#76 - 2017-05-26 15:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Players buying PLEX ingame creates demand.
PLEX, and hence CCPs income from PLEX sales, depends on it.

If players are priced out of the ingame PLEX market, it is guaranteed to result in less player activity.

Poor players (IRL) play to PLEX.

They may not contribute to CCPs funds directly, but they do keep activity/content alive, as paid for by some IRL richer player.

If that segment of players is priced out of the market, and drops out of EVE, it will have some pretty severe repercussions for EVE and CCP.

Furthermore, these players love EVE as much as any of us, despite their IRL income being less than ours.
Its not good to lose them, even though they pay with isk rather than cash, for the same experience.



PLEX is the gold standard of EVE.

The higher PLEX rises, it invariably, and deterministically draws up the price index of everything else.

The more players are priced out of the PLEX market, and who are otherwise unable/unwilling to sub, the less market demand there is in EVE for anything, as well as less supply.

PLEX prices will not drop as a result of reduced demand by loss of these IRL players, it will increase in proportion to the attrition of these players whom actively bought PLEX and whom had the greatest demand for it. The remaining PLEX market will be among the rich, both ingame and without.



IRl poor players constitute a completely different market segment, with different characteristics.

They play to PLEX. They need PLEX inorder to remain ingame.
Whereas to us, subbing and isk is trivial, to them its like oxygen.
If they cant make it to a PLEX in a month, they run out of oxygen, and die ingame.

These are the players whom buoy the PLEX market.
They buy PLEX every single month, out of necessity.
They are the largest segment of PLEX CONSUMERS.

They play very hard, very actively and very passionately inorder to achieve that.

Losing them, and the content they provide, is not good for EVE.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#77 - 2017-05-26 15:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Players buying PLEX ingame creates demand.
PLEX, and hence CCPs income from PLEX sales, depends on it.

If players are priced out of the ingame PLEX market, it is guaranteed to result in less player activity.

Poor players (IRL) play to PLEX.

They may not contribute to CCPs funds directly, but they do keep activity/content alive, as paid for by some IRL richer player.

If that segment of players is priced out of the market, and drops out of EVE, it will have some pretty severe repercussions for EVE and CCP.

Furthermore, these players love EVE as much as any of us, despite their IRL income being less than ours.
Its not good to lose them, even though they pay with isk rather than cash, for the same experience.
\

Remember what was said in this thread, go back and look through some videos of the 2015 fanfest, not a lot of people relatively speaking use PLEx for game time. Most people paid subs before the 'clone states' change allowed free to play. And plex was cheaper 2 years ago so there is no reason to think this has changed.

It's much ado about nothing, just like the "omg isboxer is going away, subs will plummet!" histeria that people use to cover up the fact that they are space rich ISK-misers that don't like spending more space money on plex.

Right now game time for EVE only costs 45 million isk per day in game (or 50 cents USD per day out of game for a month to month sub). That's 40-45 minutes of afking an Ishtar in an anomaly in null sec one time per day, or following this Burner mission guide in high sec for 15 minutes a day, or joining an incursion fleet and doing TWO sites with the fleet once per day (average 15 minute wait to get in fleet and 30 minutes to do 2 HQ sites with the communities I run with).

If the country you are in is so poor that you can't generate 50 cents (USD) per day to pay a sub, and you are so pitiful at EVE PVE that you can't spend 15-45 minutes generating the 45 mil per day you need to play as an Omega without spending 50 cents per day, you shouldn't be playing EVE (or owning a computer at all) in the 1st place.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#78 - 2017-05-26 15:47:25 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Players buying PLEX ingame creates demand.
PLEX, and hence CCPs income from PLEX sales, depends on it.

If players are priced out of the ingame PLEX market, it is guaranteed to result in less player activity.

Poor players (IRL) play to PLEX.

They may not contribute to CCPs funds directly, but they do keep activity/content alive, as paid for by some IRL richer player.

If that segment of players is priced out of the market, and drops out of EVE, it will have some pretty severe repercussions for EVE and CCP.

Furthermore, these players love EVE as much as any of us, despite their IRL income being less than ours.
Its not good to lose them, even though they pay with isk rather than cash, for the same experience.



PLEX is the gold standard of EVE.

The higher PLEX rises, it invariably, and deterministically draws up the price index of everything else.

The more players are priced out of the PLEX market, and who are otherwise unable/unwilling to sub, the less market demand there is in EVE for anything, as well as less supply.

PLEX prices will not drop as a result of reduced demand by loss of these IRL players, it will increase in proportion to the attrition of these players whom actively bought PLEX and whom had the greatest demand for it. The remaining PLEX market will be among the rich, both ingame and without.



IRl poor players constitute a completely different market segment, with different characteristics.

They play to PLEX. They need PLEX inorder to remain ingame.
Whereas to us, subbing and isk is trivial, to them its like oxygen.
If they cant make it to a PLEX in a month, they run out of oxygen, and die ingame.

These are the players whom buoy the PLEX market.
They buy PLEX every single month, out of necessity.
They are the largest segment of PLEX CONSUMERS.

They play very hard, very actively and very passionately inorder to achieve that.

Losing them, and the content they provide, is not good for EVE.


What a bunch of utter crap! And no, I am not going to explain why, figure it out yourself.
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
#79 - 2017-05-26 15:49:42 UTC
Clandestiny wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
$10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game....

May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA.

5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP) -$0.30
5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement & Entertainment -$14.95

So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25.

Thanks Smile


If you buy a year at a time, it's 10.95 per month.

I bought a year when I cam back to go from Alpha to Omega (which still appears to be active). It cost 100 dollars (or maybe it was 99). That's 8.34 a month.

Salvos Rhoska
#80 - 2017-05-26 15:50:30 UTC
You underestimate the fragility of the PLEX system.

Its primary CONSUMERS are people that play to PLEX.

Once they are priced out of the market, not only will activity rates drop, but the PLEX market will go haywire.