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Dev blog: The future of probe and directional scanning UI

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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#121 - 2017-05-09 17:23:06 UTC
Duo Roman wrote:

I like the new directional scanner and the buttons on the bottom of the window.
Since I place the window at the top of the screen the final button position is mid-screen, very convenient.

Since I place the window at the bottom of the screen final button positions are very inconveniet...CCP have no idea how to make usable UI. Just because someone at CCP think it is a good idea to switch probing button possition I'll have to rearrange my whole UI. Something that suppose to help me playing is actually forcing me off from the game. CCP don't understand that UI is crucial thing in EvE. Ghost may show us his x-rays all the time, but nothing will replace user friendly UI.

There was a tons of feedback how to change proposed new feature. I'm aware that devs don't play the game (most of them) so maybe start to listen what players is saying about created features and take it under consideration? Not all things are muscle memory.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Shadowlance
Damsel Industries
#122 - 2017-05-09 18:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadowlance
So no suggestions were implemented, i'm dissapointed.
Instead of small, quick and useful d-scan we're forced to use this…

New UI isn't that bad. Actually i liked:
1. Quick access to the system map, integration and interaction with it.
2. Visual scan cone.
3. Shortcuts for overview tab presets (it'll be great if i could set shortcuts for my presets myself, no matter are they in overview tabs or not)
4. And especially: shortcut to align scan cone to selected object.

What is downgraded in comparsion with old UI (and it was written several times here before):
1. Removed "use overview preset" checkbox, which was 100% useful for quick target locate. It was already suggested to return that checkbox or make a shortcut for "show all" when scan button is pressed (like you did with align scan cone), without resetting current scan profile.
2. Useful UI elements are located on the opposal sides of d-scan window = move them in one place! (preferably to window header)
3. Remove/change that annoying scan sound or add some checkbox to switch it off.
4. Far left position for the scan range slider of 0 au is completely useless = make it at least 0.5 au

Only if at least 1-3 of above paragraphs would be fixed, i'll agree that new d-scan UI is actually better than old one. Currently it's worse! Evil.
Devian Chase
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2017-05-09 20:04:21 UTC
A other angry post !
This new new dscan and probe scan is utter **** ^^
the old one is just better in every way .. so thats a half year of wasted programing
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#124 - 2017-05-09 20:13:26 UTC
Devian Chase wrote:
A other angry post !
This new new dscan and probe scan is utter **** ^^
the old one is just better in every way .. so thats a half year of wasted programing



This. Please enable an option for 'Legacy' dscan window.

I realize that the underlying code for it may be either depreciated or missing from the current build; that's fine, make a gui that looks like the old one on top of having the new trendy one, there was NOTHING wrong with the old one whatsoever, and dscan literally defines 90% of game play.

I can't even undock and get the information I need to play the game anymore. Everything is just this visual insanity.

Please program for the Players!

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#125 - 2017-05-09 20:29:10 UTC
but why change a running system that was usefull working and had clear optics... to see whats in space like old Dscan

now it must be shiney blinky xxxtarded

just a change because it can be changed and we can make more blinky blah


so just another feature down the drain just stop scanning and stuff...
getting closer every patch to quit and let the new kiddy generation smartphone/ touchscreen/ console gamers play
the **** for free


bah
Fearman
Jovian Disease Foundation
#126 - 2017-05-09 23:24:31 UTC
I have a question about other signatures still showing up even tho i click on a specific signature i am currently trying to scan.

included is an image to show my concern.
http://imgur.com/a/U8IBu

Is it possible to get rid of the other signatures from showing up visually when i click on a specific signature i am working on.

Also it would be great if i can drag my probes bigger smaller with my mouse as well as hotkeys.

Thank you.
Mikkhi Kisht
Vanity Thy Name Is
#127 - 2017-05-10 00:45:53 UTC
Skremar Ogan wrote:
10% of men are red/green partial or full colourblind.

So the colour scheme, it's, well, not ideal for a significant portion of the player base.

The red/orange/yellow/green scheme now looks brown, light browny yellow, yellow, and yellowy brown to 10% of the dudes out there trying to scan.

Many mainstream games now have options to change colour schemes to accommodate the three types of colour blindness. I can't tell you how many friendlies in MW I've killed before they implemented some love for 1/10th of the player base.

I use the old scanning system simply because the contrast and colour scheme is better for me, but why not just make it so we can pick a better colour scheme.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness

I have notified my corp mates that they will have to handle my scanning duties going forth. Hopefully they will troll me here.


I have a different color + vision issue with the new scanning setup. CCP has managed to pick out recently (and dishearteningly reliably) shades of green and red that my eyes give a nasty 'bleed over' effect to. It's blurry bleedy smeared unrecognizable mess on some of the color choices. CCPlease, color customization for scanning (DScan & Anomaly hunting) would be awesome.
Skyleth Bergen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2017-05-10 01:10:08 UTC
New Scan System

I appreciate that it took a lot of effort to produce the new system, but for many it's just not as user friendly. Maybe my brain / eyes are getting too old. I just can't tell what the hell is going on and find the new system unpleasant as a user experience. I suspect that although some people prefer it, I'm not alone in this. There's an overload of information to the point of redundancy with the new icons for all the things. After the previous major patch, I spent an evening just trying to work with the new system because I knew the old one would eventually be removed. Unfortunately, I did have to switch back to the old just for utility. Hopefully, you are able to fix some of the issues. Between this, the increased cpu with multiple clients, and the dingus sounds everywhere, I might have to consider putting Eve away until I have more time or you have more time to troubleshoot.
Barry Foldar
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2017-05-10 01:12:57 UTC
Probing in a system where I have lots of bookmarks is really awkward as they overlap the results: https://imgur.com/a/TsI7R
I have to disable them to scan anywhere I visit frequently. Is this intended?

The background is tied to the ui colour scheme, and much brighter than the old one, even on "Dark Matter".
At the moment Angel Cartel and Blood Raider colour scheme users will struggle with red on red, especially if they have impaired colour vision.
Please could the background brightness be reduced a bit to increase contrast, and the shade changed to a more neutral grey?
Aldrat Sales
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#130 - 2017-05-10 03:43:33 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Aldrat Sales wrote:
If you wanted to make scanning better reduce the time it takes to scan its a horrible time sink. A few seconds reduction wouldn't hurt the balance to much (or would more ships get killed). You could keep combat scanners at the same time.

They did it once (made it faster and easier). Result? Data sites a re dead, mission runners left low sec, etc....



Did they leave low sec directly because scanning got quickly or they could make more isk somewhere else?
SpaceSaft
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#131 - 2017-05-10 20:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: SpaceSaft
Reasons the new scan UI is bad, imo:

Fullscreen is not proper fullscreen.

There is no button to quickly toggle the solar system map.

The solar system map doesn't dock with any other window

The sigs are so faint you can barely position your probes over them.

The resizing is too far away from your probes.

The resizing button/slider is too small.

There are no hotkeys for resizing.

There is no easy way to go between probe size stages, you can only go to the next level.

Brackets/text still take priority over your scan cube.

The soloar sytem map eats 20(!) FPS.

Changes to position/orientation/scaling aren't instant, they have this inertia with them. That makes it feel even slower.

Oh and I think it looks bad. But that's a personal opinion.
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#132 - 2017-05-11 00:25:56 UTC
SpaceSaft wrote:
There is no button to quickly toggle the solar system map.


Try F9

SpaceSaft wrote:
There are no hotkeys for resizing.


There are no PRE-DEFINED hotkey for resizing, but there can be. You have to assign them.
Aldrat Sales
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#133 - 2017-05-11 01:03:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrat Sales
Please some one tell me how combat scanning a ship down is done please.

My issues with it:

Floating window sits on top of everything and on a smaller monitor (laptop) its really painful to see overview and directional scanner.
I can make the cone move by left clicking in space and dragging the screen but this is very clumsy and inaccurate when trying to get down to 5-15 degrees.

Alternative is moving the solar system around so as to be in the cone is also quiet difficult.

Do it in the new scanner window you spend some time trying to find where you are because the you are here only shows up when you hover the mouse over you.

Any wormhole you had previously jumped would show as unstable wormhole making quick scans to wormholes possible.

The F10 map is nerf'd as you don't get anoms or sigs on there anymore, thus you can't combat dscan down using this map.

If someone has cracked these issues or is able to provide clear instructs or a good video this would be appreciated.

p.s. its also two clicks to show anoms. A dscan is performed automatically when a session change occurs (jump a gate/wormhole etc) further dumbing down
John Lawyer Jr
Doomheim
#134 - 2017-05-14 20:36:16 UTC
Used an old d-scan until latest patch - forced to use new one.

Goods:
1) Big knob for scan
2) Shortcut 'V' for scan

Bads:
1) Default sound volume for scan SFX is too loud - i figured which slider regulate it and decreased it to '1' (one) unit - seems ok now.. but come on! what if I need other SFX louder?.

2) Right left position of 'distance' is 0km (zero)!
Shame that some devs does not play EVE.
But its ok - you have your playerbase which can give actual and adequate feedback - use it! It's free!
I cannot image situation when you need zero km on your d-scan.
It should be referred to value that means something. Think about math 'constants' like grid size, operational distance of acceleration gates (novice, small, medium plex in FW).
Previous minimum distance was just fine - change it back, or make it editable like 'orbit' or 'keep at range' menus.

3) Checkbox 'active overview preset' removed.
I'll clarify.
When I am landing on acc gate of FW plex I check for player's ships using d-scan.
If I see one - i am switching to 'show all' mode and check if drones are in space (if yes - enemy propably will fight - very important tactical informatoin).
Also, it is often needed to scan place for wrecks (if any) - and this info is often neded ASAP!
Now, with current d-scan, this is a nightmare - I have to switch filters in drop-down menu which costs me SECONDS! not just one click on a checkbox.
Not efficient and not user-friendly solution :(

4) Icon of scanning degree removed.
It was sitting here and didn't touch anyone! Why you killed it?
I used peripherial sight to quickly check if I am scanning 360 and no one is coming.
Now I have to focus my sight at numerical value to get same ammount of info.
So, why to spend more? Why to focus more?
I suggest to return graphical representation of that parameter back.

5) In probe scanner 'green lines' (like combat sites or anomalies) became .. actual lines (underscores).
Let's abstract: you know that feeling when reading a book and looking into pictures one over another you are desperately trying to figure out to which picture the description between them is reffering to?
So, this is the case.
Underscore must die - its bad for eyes, it annoys, it requires more focus to retrieve needful info.
Again, previous 'green background' selection was sight-friendly, eve-calming solution; bring it back please.

6) A minor one - it was bad in previous representation and still bad now, but can be improved =
'refresh probe scan data' button needed.
It can be refreshed now by clicking twice on headers - but they are tiny; not really comfortable.

Hope my feedback will help.
o7
Shaana Mistique
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2017-05-16 20:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaana Mistique
Button layout used to be way better.. this is so awfull to use ...................................................................... Scanning and dscan.. stop forcing new bling bling **** thats not better in any way
Aldrat Sales
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#136 - 2017-05-19 00:47:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrat Sales
Please let us have our old scanner back. It worked.

The red colouring of sigs isn't bright enough.
Why can't we have the scan strength as a solid highlighting colour of the sig as before not a thin under line? What was the point of that change? You made the visuals harder.

Please fix the issue with selecting your probes and moving them and the radial menu appears. If you have time remove radial menus only 1% of pilots use these. 99% of use is by accident.

The old system if you forgot to bookmark your exit you could quickly scan it because it would show unstable wormhole. The other useful thing it was actually easy to find where your ship was. Not now its another symbol to learn.

Please CCP Help restore the scanner.

Not having the unstable wormhole means i keep scanning the exit because I can't tell icons. WHY oh WHY

An improvement that could be made if you get several sigs at varying percents hit on your first pass then don't reset them if you focus in on one sig and want to go back. Keep the max strength. Its a terrible mini game as it is.
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
#137 - 2017-05-19 18:36:39 UTC
I know some CCP people put a lot of effort in new scanner. I really appreciate this, but the truth is new scanner is an incredible crap. Unfriendly, annoying, full of defects (they have been named many times in this thread). Bring old scanner back and let us use it again.
Irusan Ramza
Lack Of Faith
#138 - 2017-05-20 18:24:42 UTC
Irusan Ramza wrote:
Hey, CCP Phantom and CCP Claymore, can we get any confirmation that you're acknowledging those of us who have color vision issues?

In this thread you've replied to people who "want space sonar sounds" because "it'd be cool", but not once replied to someone saying "This Breaks Scanning For Me, your system is unusable." I don't mean "I don't like it, it's unusable." What I mean is that we can't tell where red stops and green starts. We can't find the tiny red dot(s) in all the green noise. We can't use the system because it's designed in such a way that we are physically incapable of seeing.

BTW, This Breaks Scanning For Me. Please at least acknowledge. Please. There are dozens of us.




http://evenews24.com/2017/05/18/dev-blog-color-blindness-support-is-coming-to-eve-online/

Thank you.
BESTER bm
Doomheim
#139 - 2017-05-22 12:32:53 UTC
Irusan Ramza wrote:
Irusan Ramza wrote:
Hey, CCP Phantom and CCP Claymore, can we get any confirmation that you're acknowledging those of us who have color vision issues?

In this thread you've replied to people who "want space sonar sounds" because "it'd be cool", but not once replied to someone saying "This Breaks Scanning For Me, your system is unusable." I don't mean "I don't like it, it's unusable." What I mean is that we can't tell where red stops and green starts. .....

BTW, This Breaks Scanning For Me. Please at least acknowledge. Please. There are dozens of us.




http://evenews24.com/2017/05/18/dev-blog-color-blindness-support-is-coming-to-eve-online/

Thank you.


These changes do not apply to the new scanning changes.. different team and god forbid one team would actually work with another to push changes that are actually good for a lot of players across the board.

CCP currently is an incoherent mess with what seems like a total breakdown of inter-company communication.

And about the scanning changes.. It's obvious CCP don't care and certainly clear that CCP devs mostly work at/for what they believe to be of use from their own perspective and not consider general and established UI and UX best practice. What's even worse is that these flaws have been pointed out several times and at length with exact examples and definition but _none_ of this was obviously even taken in to consideration. The team doing these changes is probably already working on wrecking the next game component..
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#140 - 2017-05-29 10:01:22 UTC
Mikkhi Kisht wrote:
Skremar Ogan wrote:
10% of men are red/green partial or full colourblind.

So the colour scheme, it's, well, not ideal for a significant portion of the player base.

The red/orange/yellow/green scheme now looks brown, light browny yellow, yellow, and yellowy brown to 10% of the dudes out there trying to scan.

Many mainstream games now have options to change colour schemes to accommodate the three types of colour blindness. I can't tell you how many friendlies in MW I've killed before they implemented some love for 1/10th of the player base.

I use the old scanning system simply because the contrast and colour scheme is better for me, but why not just make it so we can pick a better colour scheme.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness

I have notified my corp mates that they will have to handle my scanning duties going forth. Hopefully they will troll me here.


I have a different color + vision issue with the new scanning setup. CCP has managed to pick out recently (and dishearteningly reliably) shades of green and red that my eyes give a nasty 'bleed over' effect to. It's blurry bleedy smeared unrecognizable mess on some of the color choices. CCPlease, color customization for scanning (DScan & Anomaly hunting) would be awesome.


This is something we are investigating with the color blind mode, however it is not technically possible at the moment with how we use that scene. Hopefully this is something we can resolve.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters