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Dev blog: The future of probe and directional scanning UI

First post First post
Author
Metal Saleswoman
The Mechanix
#101 - 2017-03-14 23:31:00 UTC
Bad windows desing. Annoying sounds. Mouse scroll reversed. Nice options like highlight selected signatures removed...

Rollback this patch CCP
QueenEmeraldas
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2017-03-15 02:26:44 UTC
As someone who pvps often i find these directional scanner changes to be completely unusable for combat purposes.

Anyone who doesn't use the directional scanner to pinpoint combat targets as the scout for their fleet within seconds of entering a system rather than minutes does not have meaningful input on the directional scanner's use or changes. Anyone who thinks the map part looks "really cool" hasn't tried using it to find a moving human target in space that is trying to not be found.

This is like when you guys redid the map and it looked so good, so great, so interactive and high graphics. But it still had to function as a map and it didn't.

This is the same problem It's a basic tool for piloting your ship. It doesn't have to be pretty, it has to work right and fit on your HUD.

The map doesn't need to be there at all and must be removed for it to be usable. at least make it so it can be like compressed more or something. you can separate the map from the dscanner and move the map so its like hanging off the bottom of your screen and you only have this weird bar at the bottom saying the system name, but that's like really weird man, you have to see why there has to be an option to close the map without closing the dscanner. That's a hard issue, if you guys don't at least make that map thing minimizable then there's no saving this.

First hard issue is having the map window up even with the smallest version map takes up the majority of your screen.

Second hard issue is this sound it makes.

If you are dscanning all over the place its just like holy cow would you knock it off i get that i'm doing a scan or whatever but it doesn't need to be like so often. Maybe if it made that ping like every 30th scan, or it pinged under conditions the player could set like, make that crazy sound if a black op is on scan or something like that. That could be cool even. But, the way its set up it just gets on your nerves way faster than you'd think. Its cool for like 10 minutes of scanning or like maybe half an hour, but if you're out in space for hours, like say half of a day, (cause we're all no life(ing) it duh) scanning all over everywhere then it really weighs on you fast, to the point where you're like omg scanner i'm going to unsub over this horrible sound man i'm gunna just smash my face into my keyboard until it biomasses me.

The good news is, those are the only two hard issues.
I'm guessing these two things are like "lose a bunch of players" type issues.

now on to things that i hate but dont think are critical.

The green like sonar haze that washes over the dscanner field is really annoying to me, i cant tell if i'm associating it with the sound its making and that makes me hate it more or not. But the green is so green and obstructing of whats written there, i have to scan again in like 1/3 of a second or however soon this thing allows me to scan again. i cant deal with all this green sonar effect happening. Again its a tool i dont need it to look cool as it displays results i just want the results plz thanks.

Also you didn't need to move the button that says "SCAN" and the angle/distance controls to the opposite side of the scanner haha, that's so annoying if you ever just click the scan button or adjust the range/angle. Now i have to have to have to hot key the scan button and find a way to deal with the angle/range. With it at the bottom it's difficult to change angle quickly from 15 degree to 5 degree, which is important for maintaining speedy scanning and then being able to differentiate things with the 5 if they're clustered. I used to have it below my overview along the right side of my screen. Now that puts the scan button in the very bottom corner underneath that weird like notification button thing thats always parroting you back the things you know you did haha. So i guess i'll never click the scan button ever again on the dscanner as a workaround to that... That's cool i guess. it'll be faster if i learn to use the hot key in the long run i guess. But i mean why have a button at that point. Its not a hard issue but its really just like whatever man i guess I'll deal with that. I've been playing with having it above my screen in the top left over the top of the piloting nav thing where it displays what system you're in and your desto and trying to use it from up there which is really awkward but i guess its ok. Sucks for no reason though. The frustration here is really just why, why did it move. I can deal with it but why. Why i ask you.

The last frustration is you guys really need to fix the delay in the stupid scanner scan button instead of making it look cool or whatever. I remember a day when you could click that scan button and it would update your scanner as fast as you could click it. Like boom thats whats on scan at the planet 4 cluster, then you could whip your camera super fast and point at something else and scan. Now you have to scan... wait for the results to display... now wait for the button to be clickable again..... ok now you can scan the next thing. You've nerfed that like 4 times and made it worse each time. ITS SO SLOW TO SCAN NOW SO SLOW SO SLOW AHHHHHHHHHHHH. Nah but seriously i could see how people could be pinging so often that it would bog things down. But really guys...

spend your time making it not make things bog down so our tool will be high speed again and not sluggish to respond.

Again tool is a tool. Work on its function as that tool.

I don't know how but once upon a time it updated fast and it was so cool. I could scan so fast. You have no idea how bad you guys have made this directional scanner over the last decade.

#fullcharactersreamainingrant
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#103 - 2017-03-15 12:31:15 UTC
Tip - if you turn UI Interaction off in advanced audio it disables the submarine ping (along with all other click/button effects).

Also, seems like the solar system map is bugged? The map button on the probe launcher on one account and not on the other. Relogging seems to help.

But still, please change the dscan to be at the top. The bottom buttons get pushed under other windows.
Sevander Seven
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2017-03-16 03:49:27 UTC
CCP Devs,

As a relatively new player who has had a difficult enough time learning the old scanner system, I find the new one completely unusable.

Is there any way for players to configure the scanner window elements to be in the old locations? The new one is awkward and not the least bit intuitive.

With the new changes, I have not been able to scan down a single site, no matter what it might be. I can never seem to get above 4%.. Ugh! I think changing how scanning works AND the interface at the same time was short-sighted and a rather poor decision.

To be honest, it seems like there was a fix applied to something that frankly, was not broken.

In light of this, I have to give up exploration as it relies too heavily on having a usable scanner system.


Whew! Thanks for letting me vent my frustration.




Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#105 - 2017-03-17 00:06:34 UTC
I have been dscanning since around 2005. With the same UI. Most, if not all of that time, has been spent rapidly dscanning targets to either kill with a small gang, or locate hostile fleets for large gangs. I have always been a scout. Above anyone else, the dscanner is a tool that is meant for me.

Currently, at least with the old dscanner as it stands, i can scan a target down to 5 degrees within a matter of seconds. 10 seconds is too slow. Sometimes you only have 3 before your target warps out of an anom or a belt or whatever.

That gives me a very intimate knowledge of it that many people don't have. People like me love the old dscanner, I'm certainly not the only one who can rapidly aquire targets like that, but unfortunately we are a very small and most likely silent minority in a majority of people who have never used the dscanner to its full potential.

With that perspective in mind, the dscanner, whatever it might end up being, needs to be fast, able to aquire targets quickly, 'rugged' in a sense that it doesnt decide to refresh at exactly the wrong moment, or aquire a strange bug which causes a couple of seconds latency. It needs to be simple, something that you don't have to press 5-6 buttons to use properly, so the less inputs the better.

Being user friendly is great, BUT NOT when it is at the expense of reducing the skill needed to use it fast and at it's full potential. The old one was exactly this. It oozed simplicity, yet there was huge nuance in the ways you could use it depending on how you chose to.

When I first tried the new dscanner, when it was first introduced on tq, i was absolutely terrified you were going to make it like that permanently. Why? Because it was slow, it refreshed every time you moved your camera (PLEASE DONT DO THIS), it was more complex, it had silly graphical interfaces which inevitably slowed it down slightly. It was basically everything you DONT need in a combat dscanner.

Let me put it this way. People who are trying to hide have every advantage imagineable when it comes to avoiding getting tackled. It is literally impossible to tackle someone who is active, at their screen, and knows what they're doing when they're ratting in an anom. the ONLY advantage scouts like me had was our speed with the dscan tool, nobody expects someone to be that fast.

If you remove the simplicity and utility and ruggedness of the old dscanner, you are basically going to make roaming FAR less appealing, because anything that isnt on a gate can simply get away.

An alternative would be to have a stripped down dscanner, very similar to the old one, if not the same, which you could have as an OPTION if people wanted to use it instead of the fancy graphical dscanner. Like we currently have.

If you're going to make a new dscanner, and remove the old one, PLEASE make it fit for purpose, if you want to change it fine, but don't change the core mechanics behind it. ESPECIALLY things like refreshing the scanner every time you move your camera.
Blazemonger Adoulin
BLAZE INC
#106 - 2017-03-17 08:23:59 UTC

This needs to be rolled back and fixed asap
Irusan Ramza
Lack Of Faith
#107 - 2017-03-19 00:44:11 UTC
Hey, CCP Phantom and CCP Claymore, can we get any confirmation that you're acknowledging those of us who have color vision issues?

In this thread you've replied to people who "want space sonar sounds" because "it'd be cool", but not once replied to someone saying "This Breaks Scanning For Me, your system is unusable." I don't mean "I don't like it, it's unusable." What I mean is that we can't tell where red stops and green starts. We can't find the tiny red dot(s) in all the green noise. We can't use the system because it's designed in such a way that we are physically incapable of seeing.

BTW, This Breaks Scanning For Me. Please at least acknowledge. Please. There are dozens of us.
rubyDemonic
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#108 - 2017-03-19 13:38:33 UTC
Before the change you could easily focus on a particular signature for scanning because you would click on it in the probe scanner window (highlighting it) and then in the solar system map only that signature would show up. This allowed me to become very quick and efficient with scanning.

Now I'm finding it very difficult to focus on a particular signature because there is all this visual "noise" of the other signatures close by. This makes my scanning much less efficient and really hurts the gameplay enjoyment, because from my perspective the more wormhole chains I can scan, the more potential to generate content.

This is from the perspective of a player living in wormholes with a lot of scanning experience with perfect skills and a virtue pod.

I'm adapting to the new UI and trying to get as quick with scanning as I was in the past, however the clutter in the solar system window is unacceptable when I'm trying to focus on a single signature.

I feel its the same for new players, sure if you are in a system with only a few signatures, this really won't be much of an issue. Now lets say that new player finds a connection to a shattered wormhole with 30 signatures, there is so much clutter it makes it a waste of time to scan that system down.

TLDR: I need to be able to focus down a particular signature for quick scanning, it was easily done in the old UI, please bring that part back.
Min Mar
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2017-03-20 04:05:52 UTC
I too am trying to master the new system and so far it's working OK.

Can I ask for a setting however on the color of the sigs? I am color impaired and it seems difficult to me to see some of the red spheres in the black background. I have to click on a sig to get the extra circle to be able to identify it correctly. Maybe If i could pick a yellow color for the sigs or if they did not fade as much, that would be great.

Also, I know CCP WNT works hard to make this a positive experience, but the new sound effect are, pardon the pun, just trash.
I don't need them and I don't see why i have to disable all other map sounds to get rid of them. Just take them out of the game altogether, they don't add any value.

Cheers,

MM
Klara Zufall
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#110 - 2017-04-05 09:16:38 UTC
Klara Zufall wrote:
Yes, i know you guys are always trying to make things easier for newbros and polish stuff to look more fancy
BUT
why to change things that work perfectly well? You know that Eve is that cool just because it isnt so WOWish.
I am happy with the old scanning window and i realy dread the day, "when we are happy with the new implementation". May it take a very long time, sorry CCP


Ok, time for an apology.
I finaly have switched to the new scanning window (not because of the shiny colors and not because of the flurry sounds) but simply because the key bindings are great (well you could have done with the old map).
And that 90-degrees-doubly-click is simply ingenious!
Took me some time to adapt, but now its ok (talking about 300-500 sigs a week)

CCPls:
Get rid of that dscan sounds *doooom* (with dscan in WHs a matter *doooom* of every 10-seconds, it is so *dooooom*)
Jessika Lee
Perkone
Caldari State
#111 - 2017-04-08 22:19:32 UTC
How about change color for anomalies on probe scanner window? Let's say cyan or something like it.
When you have a pack of anomalies and several fully scanned combat signatures it becomes hard a bit to separate them without disabling something in filter preset.

We have no need to scan anomalies anymore so it's no need to bind color to "green" like for a 100% scanned signatures because we not scan it at all
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#112 - 2017-04-28 12:15:00 UTC
Removed a rant.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.

Aldrat Sales
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#113 - 2017-05-02 07:50:07 UTC
My largest issue with the new changes are how to combat dscan a ship down to 5 degrees quickly.

This is a common issue I have with changes that CCP make, the time it takes to unlearn and relearn and the utter frustration it brings me. Change is necessary and moves the game forward but please please please follow the golden rules of introducing changes.

"Key Idea! As both designers of products and also users of products, be aware
of how you use learned behaviors and be careful how you introduce new
behaviors. When interface enhancements are made, users should only have to
learn a few new behaviors or techniques. They should not be forced to unlearn
behaviors they have been using for years. Unlearning trained behavior is much
more difficult than learning new behavior."

This is quoted from http://theomandel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Mandel-GoldenRules.pdf

Please stop making me unlearn things !!!!! If you wanted to make scanning better reduce the time it takes to scan its a horrible time sink. A few seconds reduction wouldn't hurt the balance to much (or would more ships get killed). You could keep combat scanners at the same time.



March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2017-05-02 14:14:26 UTC
Aldrat Sales wrote:
If you wanted to make scanning better reduce the time it takes to scan its a horrible time sink. A few seconds reduction wouldn't hurt the balance to much (or would more ships get killed). You could keep combat scanners at the same time.

They did it once (made it faster and easier). Result? Data sites a re dead, mission runners left low sec, etc....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Nerdy DG
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#115 - 2017-05-09 13:35:32 UTC
So with old scanner window removed i really hoped CCP would listen to at least some suggestions.
Apparently not.
Settings are not detachable from the top of the map.
Still same transparent/translucent ma.
Still the same stacking of locations.

Well RIP (fast and efficient) scanning
erittainvarma
Fistful of Finns
#116 - 2017-05-09 13:47:49 UTC
I can't really get around the idiocy of action buttons at the bottom of directional scanner.

Unsubscribed.
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#117 - 2017-05-09 14:29:55 UTC
I like the new directional scanner and the buttons on the bottom of the window.
Since I place the window at the top of the screen the final button position is mid-screen, very convenient.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#118 - 2017-05-09 14:38:14 UTC
Yes, very convenient in obscuring half the screen.
I can't find the incentive to login anymore, scanning was the last activity I enjoyed in EVE.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Kikkihiiri
Kikkihiiri's Corporation of Madness
#119 - 2017-05-09 15:34:10 UTC
new scanner is just **** , return old one , causes issues for older gpu's .(atleast for 250 gts) , overrall clunky feeling,
Compayn
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#120 - 2017-05-09 16:47:07 UTC
Currently with the new system if you use a hotkey to resize your probes while in the process of dragging them to a new location with your mouse it will return the probes to their starting location and then immediately snap them back to where your cursor is. It's pretty disorienting and doesn't make it obvious that you can move+resize probes at the same time which imo is one of the biggest advantages of the new system. To clarify: This is some kind of display issue, it still works fine and is just really weird to have your probe formation jumping all over the screen all the time.