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119.5 - General Feedback

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Tsutomi Sakuma
Doomheim
#161 - 2017-05-10 14:31:26 UTC
Christina Carter wrote:
It's not about the price going up on plex or the fact that plex can no longer be used to do character transfers. For me it is simply that CCP implemented these changes without notifying the Eve community. It was done in a disgustingly sneaky way which has broken the trust I had in CCP.

I'm a person that believes in being forthcoming and letting the chips fall where they may. Had CCP been as forthcoming and just gave us notice that these are the new changes to pricing and use of PLEX, I would be ok with it but now I have to act on principal. I have already unsubbed 2 of my 6 accts and I feel that our relationship has come to an end.

I remember that summer of rage. I was part of the protest. I remember how CCP admitted to making mistakes and going forward was going to have more open communication with the player base. However, it seems that CCP has fallen back into it's old ways of not caring about how we are affected or treating us with the respect the we, the players, deserve. Simply put, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

I have seen the changes that have been implemented over the years concerning CCP's business model for Eve and I can no longer support the actions of CCP. When a company takes actions that even look sneaky or dishonest towards it's player base, then I have reevaluate my continued participation in that business as a customer.

I have chosen to vote with my wallet and place my support elsewhere. I have to follow my principals and quite frankly, I no longer trust CCP.

Communications Closed!


Please feel free to contract your belongings to me.

...and they did give heads up on changes to PLEX.
Tsutomi Sakuma
Doomheim
#162 - 2017-05-10 14:33:41 UTC
Ebanezer Scrooge wrote:
just logged and seen the update.
500 plex is what it takes to add game time.
They selling you 440 +60 free for 19.99 unfortunately to me this smells, and really bad to boot.
I see people calling it a scam, it looks closer to what might be considered something else.


1 PLEX was $19.99

500 nuPLEX are $19.99

To what odor do you refer?
Tsutomi Sakuma
Doomheim
#163 - 2017-05-10 14:48:35 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Drigo Segvian wrote:
So how much was the increase if any? $1, $2 a month? $19.99 a plex?

I spend more on a burger and fries for me and my wife.... #nopoors

A lot more than you think. Just compare these 2 pictures: Old PLEX Prices vs. New PLEX prices. For instance: You got 6 full months of Game Time before the changes, now you only get 5 Months and 72% of the 6th month of game time. That's a lot more than than just 1 or 2 dollars per month in increased cost, infact, it's more than 5 USD on the 6th month that you need to spend extra because you did not get a full month of subscription value.


Those old prices were during a goddamn sale - not even a valid comparison.
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#164 - 2017-05-10 15:06:55 UTC
Tsutomi Sakuma wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Drigo Segvian wrote:
So how much was the increase if any? $1, $2 a month? $19.99 a plex?

I spend more on a burger and fries for me and my wife.... #nopoors

A lot more than you think. Just compare these 2 pictures: Old PLEX Prices vs. New PLEX prices. For instance: You got 6 full months of Game Time before the changes, now you only get 5 Months and 72% of the 6th month of game time. That's a lot more than than just 1 or 2 dollars per month in increased cost, infact, it's more than 5 USD on the 6th month that you need to spend extra because you did not get a full month of subscription value.


Those old prices were during a goddamn sale - not even a valid comparison.



Math is hard, I get it...

New PLEX price is 440 for $19.99 - You are counting the "free" plex given that is not part of the price you pay.

The current offering is a SALE price just like the other sale price because some of the PLEX you receive is FREE....
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#165 - 2017-05-10 15:24:05 UTC
Tsutomi Sakuma wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Drigo Segvian wrote:
So how much was the increase if any? $1, $2 a month? $19.99 a plex?

I spend more on a burger and fries for me and my wife.... #nopoors

A lot more than you think. Just compare these 2 pictures: Old PLEX Prices vs. New PLEX prices. For instance: You got 6 full months of Game Time before the changes, now you only get 5 Months and 72% of the 6th month of game time. That's a lot more than than just 1 or 2 dollars per month in increased cost, infact, it's more than 5 USD on the 6th month that you need to spend extra because you did not get a full month of subscription value.


Those old prices were during a goddamn sale - not even a valid comparison.

Of course this is a "goddamn" comparison because CCP reduced the amount you get but keeps the same price.

And as for "what odor" the other guy refers to: You pay 19.99 to get 440 PLEX, not 500. 60 PLEX of these 500 total are supposed to be "free". Funnily enough, CCP has removed that now and says now that you pay 19.99 to get 500 PLEX. Until that correction, it was false and deceiving marketing.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#166 - 2017-05-10 15:24:48 UTC
Do something against the high CPU usage CCP! CPU usage is 2 - 2.5 times higher since the patch. My laptop is melting. Before the patch i could barely hear the fans when running 4 clients, now the fans run at full speed all the time.
Reyka Brennivin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2017-05-10 15:43:45 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Tsutomi Sakuma wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Drigo Segvian wrote:
So how much was the increase if any? $1, $2 a month? $19.99 a plex?

I spend more on a burger and fries for me and my wife.... #nopoors

A lot more than you think. Just compare these 2 pictures: Old PLEX Prices vs. New PLEX prices. For instance: You got 6 full months of Game Time before the changes, now you only get 5 Months and 72% of the 6th month of game time. That's a lot more than than just 1 or 2 dollars per month in increased cost, infact, it's more than 5 USD on the 6th month that you need to spend extra because you did not get a full month of subscription value.


Those old prices were during a goddamn sale - not even a valid comparison.

Of course this is a "goddamn" comparison because CCP reduced the amount you get but keeps the same price.

And as for "what odor" the other guy refers to: You pay 19.99 to get 440 PLEX, not 500. 60 PLEX of these 500 total are supposed to be "free". Funnily enough, CCP has removed that now and says now that you pay 19.99 to get 500 PLEX. Until that correction, it was false and deceiving marketing.


It's just like ST:O
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#168 - 2017-05-10 15:44:11 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Tsutomi Sakuma wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Drigo Segvian wrote:
So how much was the increase if any? $1, $2 a month? $19.99 a plex?

I spend more on a burger and fries for me and my wife.... #nopoors

A lot more than you think. Just compare these 2 pictures: Old PLEX Prices vs. New PLEX prices. For instance: You got 6 full months of Game Time before the changes, now you only get 5 Months and 72% of the 6th month of game time. That's a lot more than than just 1 or 2 dollars per month in increased cost, infact, it's more than 5 USD on the 6th month that you need to spend extra because you did not get a full month of subscription value.


Those old prices were during a goddamn sale - not even a valid comparison.

Of course this is a "goddamn" comparison because CCP reduced the amount you get but keeps the same price.

And as for "what odor" the other guy refers to: You pay 19.99 to get 440 PLEX, not 500. 60 PLEX of these 500 total are supposed to be "free". Funnily enough, CCP has removed that now and says now that you pay 19.99 to get 500 PLEX. Until that correction, it was false and deceiving marketing.



Correct on the 60 Free PLEX removal - Now its 13% BONUS???

That's still 60 PLEX "free". It's Still a revaluation on the base PLEX price upwards. Nu-PLEX Costs more than old plex.

The 440 base price is the valuation used to set the price for all the packages of multi-buy incentives. The parity with the old PLEX prices is not matched until $99 package. Therefore, the base PLEX price has gone up.

You are correct in that CCP is taking the players for a ride on the inflation short bus. 14 year old game has become more expensive to play this week over last week. As Fozzy would put it, this is just another knob we can use to tweak the system.
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#169 - 2017-05-10 15:51:00 UTC
At the current valuation of PLEX - to make the new PLEX the same as the oldplex, the price should be $17.60 for 440, or get rid of the "13% bonus" garbage.

If CCP really wanted to give 13% bonus for the same PLEX valuation, then $19.99 would get 565 PLEX.
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#170 - 2017-05-10 16:06:14 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
A lot more than you think. Just compare these 2 pictures: Old PLEX Prices vs. New PLEX prices. For instance: You got 6 full months of Game Time before the changes, now you only get 5 Months and 72% of the 6th month of game time. That's a lot more than than just 1 or 2 dollars per month in increased cost, infact, it's more than 5 USD on the 6th month that you need to spend extra because you did not get a full month of subscription value.


That was not old plex prices, that was the "Crimson Harvest PLEX Sale". Regular old prices were those that don't have "offer" label, like the 6, 12 and 28 deals below:
http://i.imgur.com/YU39tis.png
See: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/62fqqw/15_off_plex_you_say_runs_off_to_find_spreadsheets/
Please stop spreading misinformation.
Max Striker
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#171 - 2017-05-10 16:08:08 UTC
Mollie Mormon wrote:
Reyka Brennivin wrote:
I must be seeing it wrong. The 30 day PLEX rate @ 14.99) is gone? I now only see the 19.99/30 days?

I think it's been $19.99 all along.

As long as I can remember, yes.
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#172 - 2017-05-10 16:18:51 UTC
AFK Hauler wrote:
At the current valuation of PLEX - to make the new PLEX the same as the oldplex, the price should be $17.60 for 440, or get rid of the "13% bonus" garbage.

If CCP really wanted to give 13% bonus for the same PLEX valuation, then $19.99 would get 565 PLEX.



The 13% bonus is compared to the smaller offer you can purchase (which you could't before).
Here is a comparison that proves new deals are actually a bit cheaper:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/698lzr/hmmmm_plex_are_more_expensive_with_the_new/dh4ng64/
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#173 - 2017-05-10 17:03:22 UTC
Duo Roman wrote:
AFK Hauler wrote:
At the current valuation of PLEX - to make the new PLEX the same as the oldplex, the price should be $17.60 for 440, or get rid of the "13% bonus" garbage.

If CCP really wanted to give 13% bonus for the same PLEX valuation, then $19.99 would get 565 PLEX.



The 13% bonus is compared to the smaller offer you can purchase (which you could't before).
Here is a comparison that proves new deals are actually a bit cheaper:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/698lzr/hmmmm_plex_are_more_expensive_with_the_new/dh4ng64/



That uses the Bonus PLEX in the comparison. The true valuation has increased by inflation to a new normal. You don't realize that the "free" or "bonus" plex is not part of the valuation and don't realize that it's a marketing tool used to establish a new baseline for pricing. Therefore, the new baseline valuation is the tool used to derive the cost of the larger package deals. There is nothing in the rule of corporation pricing that says the Bonus or Free plex is mandatory and can be revoked at any point as it's NOT part of the base valuation of the product being sold - period!
Thora Unni
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2017-05-10 17:13:57 UTC
AFK Hauler wrote:
At the current valuation of PLEX - to make the new PLEX the same as the oldplex, the price should be $17.60 for 440, or get rid of the "13% bonus" garbage.

If CCP really wanted to give 13% bonus for the same PLEX valuation, then $19.99 would get 565 PLEX.



That is the normal pricing set up for a number of MMOs


19.99 for 1 plex was the old cost. (enough for a month of play time)

now 500 plex which costs 19.99 is enough for a month of play time.


if you want to buy less plex the cost goes up, if you want to buy more plex the cost goes down.

You can't market it that way though. So you start at the lowest amount of plex you can buy and call that the base rate and then give a "discount" in "free plex" to each tier above.


The Real finger to people comes in that you can not buy 6 old plex of nu plex exactly IIRC it was 105
You have to buy 99.99 worth of nuplex (2860) which is 140 plex shy. That means you have to spend $9.99 more to get 240 plex leaving you with 100 plex left over and while spending $5

Meaning you spend 109.99 for 3100 plex
Or 28.185plex for each dollar
The old system was 104.99 for 3000 plex (equivalent)
or 28.57plex for each dollar.

meaning it is cheaper per plex but you have to spend more over all.


That is the scam. Force people to buy more than they want and spend more for it. While saying it is actually cheaper per unit.


I don't know the cost of AUR so I don't know how nuplex in amounts under 500 compare to it and the value of items.


More so it has resulted in a devaluation of ISK to USD because the cost of 500plex is almost universally more expensive than 1 plex was prior and that will likely not change because after all this is a game where the general goal for many is to screw people over as much as you can.
Random Lurker
Critical Strike
#175 - 2017-05-10 17:24:01 UTC
Axhind wrote:



PLEX is just to expensive, before you changed it PLEX was about 1,150,000,000 or less...



It will calm down but the overall prices will be slightly higher than before due to higher demand now that skill extractors can also be purchased via plex.
Expect it to settle around 1.2 to 1.3
Blazemonger
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#176 - 2017-05-10 17:49:50 UTC
DovHammer wrote:
Why ingame plex still 30 days(?)

With the new Plex system you need 500 of them to play 30 days - well that's fair enough.

But - if I only can play (say) one week, why not be able to pay in ingame plex for a week(?)

/DovHammer


Trust me.. that's coming.. it will be the perfect way for CCP to monetize Alpha clones.. 'get a week of double speed training or try out those fancy ships'
Christina Carter
Moonfire Industries
#177 - 2017-05-10 17:56:02 UTC
Tsutomi Sakuma wrote:
Christina Carter wrote:
It's not about the price going up on plex or the fact that plex can no longer be used to do character transfers. For me it is simply that CCP implemented these changes without notifying the Eve community. It was done in a disgustingly sneaky way which has broken the trust I had in CCP.

I'm a person that believes in being forthcoming and letting the chips fall where they may. Had CCP been as forthcoming and just gave us notice that these are the new changes to pricing and use of PLEX, I would be ok with it but now I have to act on principal. I have already unsubbed 2 of my 6 accts and I feel that our relationship has come to an end.

I remember that summer of rage. I was part of the protest. I remember how CCP admitted to making mistakes and going forward was going to have more open communication with the player base. However, it seems that CCP has fallen back into it's old ways of not caring about how we are affected or treating us with the respect the we, the players, deserve. Simply put, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

I have seen the changes that have been implemented over the years concerning CCP's business model for Eve and I can no longer support the actions of CCP. When a company takes actions that even look sneaky or dishonest towards it's player base, then I have reevaluate my continued participation in that business as a customer.

I have chosen to vote with my wallet and place my support elsewhere. I have to follow my principals and quite frankly, I no longer trust CCP.

Communications Closed!


Please feel free to contract your belongings to me.

...and they did give heads up on changes to PLEX.


TY for that lovely typical troll response about my stuff.

You obviously missed the whole point of my post which wasn't about PLEX changes or the removal of using PLEX to pay for character transfers. It was about the way CCP went about it. CCP said years ago that they were going to be more open and communicative with the player base about these changes. They failed, again!

While they did give us a heads up on the changes of how PLEX was being broken up into smaller bits, plex vault, they were never forthcoming about how the pricing was going to be done. Keep in mind that the "+ X Free" doesn't count towards the price as that bonus amount can be revoked at anytime by CCP.

CCP slipped into the patch notes, 4 days before the patch, that PLEX can no longer be used to pay for character transfers and said nothing concerning this until someone called CCP out on this matter. The excuse CCP gave was pathetic at best.

I personally feel that CCP has broken their word and I no longer trust them. I have principals and I'm not the kind of person that says, "thank you sir may I please have another." Maybe you are, but I am not!
Bubu Magic
State War Academy
Caldari State
#178 - 2017-05-10 17:57:59 UTC
Why "buy as a gift" option doesn't work?Also if we use the new plex to add time to account seems to work only on account manager and you can't see the added time in game or in api's.
I assume is working as intended as always.
Confused Amarr Citizen
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2017-05-10 18:20:00 UTC
New sound options are annoying, please bring back more options (even if its just tick boxes to turn off some of the more annoying stuff, like the horrible click and dscan boom)
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#180 - 2017-05-10 18:45:38 UTC
A few years ago, didn't CCP hire someone from Electronic Arts? I remember reading comments from players worried that Eve will eventually follow the dark path of "gold ammo" and other pay to win offers. Perhaps these Plex changes are the beginning (of the end): confuse the player base further, offer some dynamic deal, offer some small trinkets for sale, and slowly build upon that before the only way to play Eve successfully is to pay to win.

Just a thought...?