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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Arrendis
TK Corp
#161 - 2017-05-09 21:08:38 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

... hm. So, you're saying that a proper society necessarily provides all of those things as part of the "social contract."

Really, though, I think what a proper society provides is limitation-- repression or redirection of the animal you're speaking of, rather than its fulfillment.


It's not so much 'fulfillment' as 'channeling'. The animal is going to seek those things: to seek to meet its essential psychological need for agency and investment/satisfaction, just as it's going to seek to meet it's phsyiological needs. Society's responsibility is to provide ways to meet those psychological needs without feeling unduly restrained, or that the guidance of those drives into mutually-beneficial pursuits is particularly onerous.

When that happens, that's when people feel oppressed, and lash out from desperation. At a small scale, this is crime. On a larger scale, revolution—which is a blatant and obvious indicator that the 'civilization' has failed. The civilization may continue to limp along, as the Empire has since the Minmatar Rebellion, and can regain cohesion and regain its strength, but the fact you can walk doesn't mean you didn't break your leg six years ago.

I'd also say that systemic loss of life, liberty, et al in the service of the goal of 'more humans living closer together' isn't exactly an endorsement of the systemic loss of life etc. It's more a reflection of the basic nature of Man as a social animal. When those losses of life happen, they're not about 'we want to live with you guys so we will kill you until you let us'. They're about 'we want what you have, so we can make more of us. And if you let us make you into us, we won't kill your men and make brood-mares of your women'.

It's not exactly a civilized goal. Conflict like that—war—is actually a failure of civilization. You have two societies coming into conflict because neither one recognizes members of the other society as 'us', and thus part of the protected group.

To call that something in service of the larger goal of society (the abstract, as opposed to the dominance goal of a specific society) is rather like saying that killing all human beings is a great way to eliminate sickness and reduce ihfant mortality, in the long run. Sure, if everyone's dead, nobody's getting sick, and no babies die if no babies are born... but I'm not sure it really serves the spirit of your goal.

Quote:

They make me more confident I'm right about something I don't want to be right about: that when it comes to "liberty," human beings aren't capable of living with what they want. That we get frightened, and look for some guiding source of authority to lead with a strong hand.


Welcome to 'why religion exists in the first place'. Yeah. Most people will always look for someone to tell them what to do when things get tough. Things get scary, they don't know what to do, they look for someone who seems like they do, and hope for the best. Even if that person is just as scared and clueless as they are.

Sorry, Aria. You're normal on that one.
Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#162 - 2017-05-09 21:14:34 UTC
People are all the time saying I am short. I'm NOT short.
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#163 - 2017-05-09 21:25:24 UTC
Loai Qerl wrote:
People are all the time saying I am short. I'm NOT short.


Petit

Join Project Transcendence.

Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#164 - 2017-05-09 21:32:58 UTC
Loai Qerl wrote:
People are all the time saying I am short. I'm NOT short.

You are perfectly Lorl sized, neither too much nor too little.

Queen of Chocolate

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#165 - 2017-05-09 22:44:34 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
I'd also say that systemic loss of life, liberty, et al in the service of the goal of 'more humans living closer together' isn't exactly an endorsement of the systemic loss of life etc. It's more a reflection of the basic nature of Man as a social animal. When those losses of life happen, they're not about 'we want to live with you guys so we will kill you until you let us'. They're about 'we want what you have, so we can make more of us. And if you let us make you into us, we won't kill your men and make brood-mares of your women'.

It's not exactly a civilized goal. Conflict like that—war—is actually a failure of civilization. You have two societies coming into conflict because neither one recognizes members of the other society as 'us', and thus part of the protected group.

To call that something in service of the larger goal of society (the abstract, as opposed to the dominance goal of a specific society) is rather like saying that killing all human beings is a great way to eliminate sickness and reduce ihfant mortality, in the long run. Sure, if everyone's dead, nobody's getting sick, and no babies die if no babies are born... but I'm not sure it really serves the spirit of your goal.

It's a failing, sure. The whole point of the process is to try to reduce this sort of thing.

It's also not something anyone's found a cure for.

War as a regular thing on pretty much any level above village-scale is a default condition. Peace, lasting peace, among neighbors, now, that's an achievement.

It's often been bought at the cost of a lot of bloodshed, not all of it in war.

Quote:
Welcome to 'why religion exists in the first place'. Yeah. Most people will always look for someone to tell them what to do when things get tough. Things get scary, they don't know what to do, they look for someone who seems like they do, and hope for the best. Even if that person is just as scared and clueless as they are.

Sorry, Aria. You're normal on that one.

There's religion and religion, Arrendis. There are a few that aren't actually big on telling people what to do.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#166 - 2017-05-09 22:53:23 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

There's religion and religion, Arrendis. There are a few that aren't actually big on telling people what to do.


There's religion, and there spirituality. What makes a religion a religion is the organized structure of beliefs that, yeah, pretty much universally say 'this is bad, that is good'.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#167 - 2017-05-09 22:58:42 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
There's religion, and there spirituality. What makes a religion a religion is the organized structure of beliefs that, yeah, pretty much universally say 'this is bad, that is good'.

Somewhat, sure. But you might find us Achura a little strange this way....
Arrendis
TK Corp
#168 - 2017-05-09 23:14:24 UTC
Or I might find that what you're calling a religion is more accuratedly called a spiritual philosophy.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#169 - 2017-05-09 23:22:29 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Or I might find that what you're calling a religion is more accuratedly called a spiritual philosophy.

I'm pretty sure I won't take offense if you decide to find a word for it that doesn't offend you.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#170 - 2017-05-10 03:10:35 UTC
Loai Qerl wrote:
People are all the time saying I am short. I'm NOT short.

"Fun sized"

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#171 - 2017-05-10 03:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Loai Qerl
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:

Petit


Tyrel "Yes I Would Like A Proper Drubbing But Please No Actual Shirts" Toov wrote:

"Fun sized"


I am slightly above average height. Just a little bit. You can BOTH go chew sand. No sand for Halcyon though, who is nice.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#172 - 2017-05-10 04:44:51 UTC
Generally... and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here... but just in general, I've found that the only people who need to make sure people know they're above-average height...

... are the short folks.

Most of us just don't worry about it.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#173 - 2017-05-10 04:58:18 UTC
Standing at 1.58m tall, I am a physical colossus, towering over others in the physical realm.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#174 - 2017-05-10 05:19:57 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Generally... and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here... but just in general, I've found that the only people who need to make sure people know they're above-average height...

... are the short folks.

Most of us just don't worry about it.


Uh. While that might be true, Arrendis, Ms. Qerl is someone I physically look up to, a fair distance.

Not a lot more than most people, but, she's not at, below, or near my height.
Merchant Rova
Tidal Lock
Vapor-Lock
#175 - 2017-05-10 05:25:21 UTC
It still annoys me that, while I'm taller than most capsuleers, DUSTers will almost always be taller than me.
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#176 - 2017-05-10 07:31:14 UTC
I'm sure that can be dealt with, but there is only so much space in a pod

Queen of Chocolate

Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#177 - 2017-05-10 09:31:17 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Standing at 1.58m tall, I am a physical colossus, towering over others in the physical realm.


I am 21cm taller than you. If you are a physical colossus what am I then?

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#178 - 2017-05-10 10:48:43 UTC
And now they are comparing sizes among themselves. *Writes it down*

Its not about size people, its the way it performs and fits.

Join Project Transcendence.

Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#179 - 2017-05-10 10:51:47 UTC
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
Its not about size people, its the way it performs and fits.

I fit perfectly fine into my capsule and would consider my performance quite formidable as well.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#180 - 2017-05-10 11:20:56 UTC
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
And now they are comparing sizes among themselves. *Writes it down*

Its not about size people, its the way it performs and fits.

The way what performs and fits? Aren't capsules manufactured to standard?

Queen of Chocolate