Assembly Hall

Oh and regarding a new player grinding for a PLEX.

Hey, you dopes....opportunity cost.

You get it when it comes to mining your own minerals, but you completely fail to get it everywhere else.

Hint: Opportunity cost applies to literally everything.

Holy ****, can't believe I had to explain this.

As a rather new player myself, I'd argue that the downpour of support from veterans is what got me hooked on this game. It's been fun chatting with people about their experiences, reading blogs, and applying bits and pieces of what I see to my own game. I **** up a lot, and I've found some advice to be garbage the hard way, but I feel like I'm getting better at the game and enjoying it while I do. Players obsessed with isk and plex will have a tough time regardless of how much support others give them, as you've pointed out - it's the players looking for a good time who you provide the most value to.

I wouldn't give up on being a helpful bittervet just yet.

Exactly, when I started, yeah there where people out there plexing their accounts, and even then it was a selling point that it was something you COULD do.
but it was always promoted as something further down the road, almost end game content as it where. it was never promoted as something realistic for new players to work towards.
but thats exactly what I see happening now, and sure, some people manage to accomplish it, but for most its just raising false expectations, which is bad for player retention in the long run.

I would like to point out. That it has been over a year since the initial post... eve is still here, and while alphas may not have reversed the subscriber trend they have at least leveled it out.

Good job ccp, eve's not quite dead yet.

Oh and ganking still exists.

There has not been many counter points worth replying to because the counter points make assumptions and provide false premises. My suggestion for expanding High sec is not about having more space. I expressed in many replies. It is about accessibility to more content. The game is boring in High Sec, and those who do not wish to engage in PvP or be PKed dont have much choice really for more fun.

Expanding highsec to include more lower systems will give access to people in Empire space to more content. And I am talking about a total experience here not just PVE.



I do not wish to push people out of their fun, if that is what you think. This is not my type, I am not a Dystopian type player, a criminal or a scoundrel. You can keep all that to yourself if it gives you fun.

I am the cooperative type of player, the builder the organizer and honorable type. You will not see me attacking an unsuspecting newbie, or miner, explorer etc in low sec nulsec or WH space. I find that behavior cowardly and criminal in nature. I will fight for two reasons, in self defense or for the defense of someone else. SoI would attack the coward ganker and the criminal. I like to PvP but also for a good reason, not mindless slaughter and certainly not for bragging and all that bull I see on youtube etc. We should be applauding people who courageously defended the miner from the ganker. And the place is full of videos of gankers patting themselves for having killed a victim who had no chance to fight back in the first place thinking that they just accomplished something great. It is dumbfounding to watch... I best most are WoW rejects..who came here to "Gank" and brag about it... *rolls eyes*..anyways.

Having said that. Yes I am very open to consider alternative to make the experience in High sec richer than it is. And while I may have a hard time justifying lowsec, since I find it is filled up with cowards, criminals and scoundrels in game, I have to consider these people also as players and as such I am not better than them either and they have the right to their fun too.

If lowsec is your fun by all means keep it. But then if High sec becomes richer in terms of Game experience do not come complaining that no more victims come to low sec to be ganked. Right? I would expect you would have no issue with High sec having same access to mineral resources and missions and opportunities as low sec, the only difference being security coverage.

You are claiming the right to exist within what you consider Fun. But in that case you must at least recognize also the same right of others even if their view of what is fun is different than yours. Does that sound sensible and fair?



I understand this as expressed above. So the alternate approach is to leave Lowsec untouched and make High Sec much better in such a way so that it doe snot feel constrained and limited and boring.

See, many people in Low sec say that they do not like to play the game in nulsec, because large alliances and fleet stuff is not their thing, but then go and demand that high sec players should not have rights to fun and should adhere to the established order..their order in reality.

And that is unfair, don't you think? You do not like it when I suggest that you should be pushed to nullsec, because you do not like to adhere to that established order. Now you probably understand how High sec players may feel too in turn, when low sec come and start spewing about, "live with it", "it is a dystopia", "no safety" ", deal" etc,..

From my perspective here it looks like Low sec players are demanding from High sec players to deal with it, but then are crying themselves when expected to deal with it in turn. It cannot work like that.

And this is what CCP needs to finally realise. The game attracts many kinds of players, it has to offer a niche of many different kinds of play styles which are not affected directly by the others, but remain open and are not insular as to permit players to jump from one another as they evolve or their preferences and likes change within EVE.

The days where you force everyone in to one way of playing should come to an end.

EVE is a sandbox game unlike WoW which you reference earlier. As such it is totally valid to play the “criminal and scoundrel”. And calling players cowards makes you an ass, BTW, if not an *******. These are completely acceptable and intended by CCP. Further, the greater danger of LS is due in part because LS has better resources than NS. Granted you can just go and obtain those resources solo, you’ll need effort and teamwork to take advantage of what LS has to offer.



Yes, I would have an issue. You should not have access to those kinds of resources with the current levels of protection you enjoy in HS. It would have an unbalancing effect on the game IMO. You seem to be unaware that the economy is a significant means by which players interact. Yes it is pretty anonymous, but that is a feature not a bug. Do you know who built those t2 strip miners? Do you know who ran the moon mining operation that provided the moon goo used in the the T2 components? Do you know who did the PI work that went into the fuel blocks? I am going to guess that for most if not all of those the answer is, “No.” The EVE economy is a ginormous mass of player interacting with each other providing each other with what they want and need to play the game. Letting a section of the game suddenly become more productive without a commensurate increase in the risk would mean that people would flock there to enjoy the greater rewards and lowered risks.

You want those things….LS is thataway =>



No, you have this one wrong. You are free to do what you want and hopefully that is what you consider fun. However you do NOT have the right to avoid player-on-player interaction. Nobody has that. You can try to avoid player-on-player interaction if you want, but you cannot avoid it by intervention of CCP. If you do not like this, there’s the door.



HS does not need to be buffed. If you want to get more out life in HS figure out how to do that. That is your job. Figure out how to bring in pilots to your corporation/alliance, figure out how to make playing with these players more rewarding and interesting. Do not go to CCP and say, “I want to stay in the safest part of the game, have access to resources and ISK making opportunities like the more contested parts of the game, oh and make it fun too.” Go read about this being a sandbox game. That last bit, “fun”, that is up to you.

As for fun, see the above about player-on-player interaction, nobody is saying you don’t have the right to try and have fun in the game, just that you cannot shield yourself from what other players may want to do to you. Most of us find this creates an interesting, challenging and dynamic game environment where we can compete with others and also cooperate.

And no it is not unfair if somebody says, “it is a dystopia, no safety, live with it, etc.” That is what it means to play in a sandbox game.



Deal with what? CCP intervention on your behalf? Yeah, that’s just wrong. See if a player comes along and “ruins the game” you have the option to “ruin his”. But with CCP that option is gone.

Teckos Pech , I agree with the other points, However

I think you can not conclude from winning your first PvP encounter towards Low Sec experience.
Entering the wrong Low Sec System you get a fight. On others you can stay all days and not have one Issue for days.
It realy depends. There is so much to learn about how to work in Low sec that it is intimidating for a lot of people.
Especially because these things are not obvious. And you can not take your experience for granted.
You have to stay allert in Low sec.
Best is to learn from experienced people. The current information out there do not teach how to behave in Low sec. To learn this you need to invest and loose some ships.

Low Sec is in my opinion after Wormholes the most dangerous space. Then follows 0.0 and High sec.
On 0.0 space a system can be more secure then High sec, or less secure. So I also disagree with the risk 2 reward balancing in this. However 0.0 Security is work while the security in high sec is for free.

However keep in mind that security in eve is always a dynamical thing. And not to be taken granted.
So fly Save!

Aischa

I know the presentation. Again.
Look at what was looked at:
Players 15 days old.
Probably new Player and not alts.

Focus was Ganking.
<1% was gangked
15% was Killed leagaly
the rest was not killed at all.

I'd say you can not generalize this research.

In general what you can say is that harasment is not a problem in eve.
You can not say that PvP is not an issue for new Players. I men that in the sense of knowledge. I personally assume that a lot of people (look Carebears) have issues with combat.

I do not mean this negative, more constructive.

There is a huge difference between getting Ganked, Getting into a High Sec War and travell through Low Sec.
And this is IMHO something were your example does not match what you want to say.

All the Best
Aischa

Before i leave i want to say why i do it. I don't care why other people leave. I'll say why i do it, trying to keep up with some constructive dialogue here.

1. My eyesight is getting bad over the years. Every time i play EVE after that i have a headache. It doesn't happen with other games.Only with eve. I understand its a space game and space is supposed to be dark. But EVE is too dark with huge lack of lighting. Also the font is white on a black background. While it should be dark font, on a bright background. I think this issues should be seriously addressed to the developers, because its concerning people's health. Adjusting the intensity of the stars and local lights is a must. Also the "new" tunnel movement between the gates is highly irritating my eyes.

2.The code - no comment about it, too much has been spoken. I don't care what motivates the new players. I'm a 3 years old player and the 20000 people that are missing from the game are not 15 days newbros. In the presentation CCP says - "we need experienced players" - well may be CCP should finally try to keep them.

Yes, i agree EVE is not fluffy and pink place to hang around. I have lost more then 40b of ships so far. No problem with that. The problem is when i loose them not expecting it. If i venture around 0.0 and someone kills my JF. So be it. I took the risk. But to loose my implants , because i was podded at Poinen (not even Uedama), just because i pressed autopilot, so i can go to pee. No this is not fun. I feel someone rapes me. This is how people feel when someone makes sex with them , unwillingly, right? I like sex, i don't like being raped. I think its time CCP to get this.

While we are still on the topic, because its sticky: I do pay for the game sometimes. And just like someone here said - no, i don't like to give my money for feeling raped. Noone does.Are you telling me the rapists give money for the game? They make a PLEX from people like me for an hour. I have to dig ice for a week with 4 accounts.

3.The game is spinning around Skills farming, Plex, ISK per hour, Ganking, Wardec for the sake of ganking and such. What kept me so long was the fiction stories, the SCI-FI inventions and technologies. The unknown in EVE - so much to learn about., chemistry, probing, PI, building stuff. That's why all carebears still stay in the game i guess. So this is where i ended up - between the newbros and the oligarchs, who own the market. More or less like in real life. With the difference that here i can quit.

4.I have a job.A girlfriend. Friends to hang out with. Corporation life requires huge time commitment.So , don't tell me EVE is a team game. No, There is part of EVE , which is to be played SOLO.I will not sacrifice my RL for EVE....I did it once, not doing it again.
So here comes the realization, that EVE requires too much from me, as i cant keep playing solo.That's why i prefer to go.

I highly suspect big part of these 20000 people are people like me

5. No fun.Same old lvl 4 solo missions. Even if we team up for lvl5 its still same old boring stuff. Ratting. Mining. Same old stuff. Sister of EVE missions are so-so. Gate camping - Ive done it , not my style staying like a duck whole day.Got more important things to do in life, rather then measuring my d**size..
Events ? Mindlessly grinding for a drop rate 1/10 for something which costs 15mln on the market. The only fun for me at the moment are the COSMOS missions. And sadly lots of them are bugged.

GENERALLY - Eve is very, very, very boring game. Which goal is accumulating money and riches now? It wasn't like that before. And I'm not saying that because i was young and excited player. It just too much stinks commercialism at the moment.

6.No place to live. Nullsec taken by huge alliances. Low sec is a joke - its used primarily for gate camping, as well as cyno logistics. Noone mines there. Noone does missions there. Noone is even scanning for anomalies. HiSec is more dangerous than nullsec at the moment. 70% of my assets were lost in HS.

7. Centralization of the market.Everything is in JITA now. Impossible to make t2 from reactions if i don't go at least once a day shopping to JITA. Rens is almost dead. Others are dying slowly too. I simply don't want to warp, jump, warp, jump all my life. And I'm catching myself doing this 90% of my time in the last 3 years. Seriously games mechanics in therms of traveling are f* up. When my gf asks me "are you playing EVE?", i usually answer "No, I'm traveling to JITA"
CCP, don't you guys realize how ridiculous and time consuming all this warping is? The game is not dynamic.Period. While at same time the PvP battles i am involved into last no more then 30 secs.

8.Talking about the security in HS. I cant go out with a Marauder- It will be killed in no time , just because its shiny. I cant go mining ice, because there is a guy in Hentogaira with 25+ skiffs , which noone ganks.OR there is a Machiarel for bumping on every ice belt in Caldari space. Almost every 0.5 (and not only )of the gates are potentially ganking camped. Jita is camped all the time. This is not how the game is supposed to look like, I'm sorry. If i was a newbie and if i knew all that, i would never start playing.
That answers the ultimate question why all people still play, even though they got ganked - because they invested too much time, money and effort to quit - NOT BECAUSE THE GAME IS FUN!
All the patience of these people will be depleted one day and you ,CCP ,will never get to know the reason for this , using your statistics.

Re-submiting?Lets face it - people do it because there is no other MMO game of the sort.
Enough bitching. I'll make another post , trying to give some suggestions, how i see it, so can CCP do something about it, if they wish. After all we have to be constructive here.

You've hit upon the problem. Eve Online is a very, very, very boring game if all you do is play it to accumulate unneeded wealth. It was like this before, and it will likely stay this way until the servers get shut off. All that has happened is that you have either bored of the current scripted content and cannot find anything else to engage you, or you have reached a greater level of awareness and understand now that a greater competitive purpose is needed to give any point at all to your actions.

Neither of these things is something to get upset over. If you have tired of the grind of Eve's PvE content just move on and find another game you do like. If PvP and/or competing with the other players for things in New Eden interests you but you haven't found a way to experience it, I would suggest you mix things up and try something new, but if you don't want competition with other players in your gaming experience, then just move along. Grinding ISK will not get anymore interesting for you than it already is.

I do agree CCP has added an unpleasant whiff of commercialism with their recent efforts at monetizing the game. Still, so far I have been able to tune most of that out and ignore most of the tawdriness. That may not always be the case and at some point I will tire of my sandbox game waging psychological war against me in an attempt to part me with my money, so I completely understand if someone has had enough. CCP is walking a fine line with these monetization tricks for a game I pay a (hefty by modern standards) monthly subscription to play.

I will also say I think you have overestimated the risk to yourself in highsec. It isn't zero, but many people operate with no problem every day. Normal (T2) fit Marauders are rarely, if ever exploded, as with tanked Procurer/Skiffs. Only when you play Eve as a progression game and fit more and more expensive modules to eek out a bit more profit will you run into problems when someone calls you on your greed.

If you aren't happy playing though, just leave. There is no point making yourself miserable in your free time. Eve Online isn't not going to change for you. Not now, 15 years into the experiment.