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Quafe Convoy Destroyed By Caldari Forces On Caldari-Gallente Border

Author
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#281 - 2017-04-03 12:02:19 UTC
Sheyan Mazaki wrote:

In regards to the actual topic, hopefully there will be knowledge granted soon so that theories based on lack of information (and in some cases personal bias) will instead become facts based on evidence. At the very least, the family of those that perished deserve a better explanation.

In the lack of the facts I make my conclusions based on my knowledge of standard engagement procedures. Moreover, assumptions can be made based on the source unverifiable information comes from: the Quafe.

Gallente have been known on quite a few occasions to bend the fact and tell us things that didn't happen, or counterwise, tell us things didn't happen when then have actually happened. For example, certain gallente provocateurs, even on this exact forum, were claiming that Gallente weren't startving, torturing and blowing up Caldari prisoners of war. But on other hand, every capsuleer have means and ability to go to Black Rise, find these hidden Federal facilities, and even help people escape them and see with their own eyes consequences of starvation, beating and tortures that gallente jailmasters were giving to Caldari.

And with all these facts, certain individuals were openly claiming that it was just alleged.

Now you can see, that Quafe could have done exactly the same. Unlike this situation with prisoners, where we can go there ourselves and see that gallente were lying but Caldari weren't, I don't see in this situation how we can verify Quafe words.

It means, that with very high probability there were not a single Caldari on their board and that they were trying to enter Caldari space, not leave it.

While there will be no evidences that we could check with our own eyes, or until Caldari officials will make a statement, I myself will consider Quafe propaganda to be nothing but another gallentean lie. And I hope I've convinced you to believe it as well.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Sheyan Mazaki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#282 - 2017-04-03 12:21:12 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
While there will be no evidences that we could check with our own eyes, or until Caldari officials will make a statement, I myself will consider Quafe propaganda to be nothing but another gallentean lie. And I hope I've convinced you to believe it as well.


Apologies, but you haven't. Until evidence on this particular event is shared and/or more information is brought to light, I agree with others including Miss Jenneth that judgement should be withheld. On all fronts. Assumptions and speculations will only lead to further conflict and distractions from ending this crisis once and for all.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#283 - 2017-04-03 14:45:29 UTC
I would point out that we are fifteen noisy and futile pages into what can only be generously described as a conversation. So much speculation and so much outrage - and no new information.

Perhaps now is that time to admit that without more actual data, there's little point in continuing this. Most of you had made up your minds already and only new information could change 'em.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Matar Ronin
#284 - 2017-04-03 18:35:39 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Being someone who believes passionately in the equality of all human life being constantly and maliciously compared to the antithesis of that belief is something I will not miss from the "Periwinkle Princess".Pirate

I of course understand if you do not understand this because from the general impression you leave you crave for the approval of the popular majority above almost everything else while I would rather be right than just popular.

No-- most people will object to being compared to someone they perceive as an awful person for one reason or another.

"But I'm nothing like (her/him)!" isn't a very rare sentiment here. You and Ms. Kim are just the most recent example, each outraged at the notion that you might have something in common with the other.

About popular approval ... hm. Well, if I really did crave popular approval above all, I kind of doubt you'd be counting me an apologist for the Amarr. Accepting a role as a servant here, even to someone as well-admired as Lunarisse Aspenstar Daphiti, hasn't been the most popular move.

I can't really claim to be immune to that kind of thing, though. I do like to be liked. It makes talking to people easier, even if they think I'm horribly wrong about almost everything. It's important to me to keep lines of communication open. How else will I know when someone who thinks I'm wrong has a point?

Also, it seems like it's hard to be right all the time. It's hard on a person to even really try, and probably at least as hard on people who, subjectively, succeed, though I guess a lot of those at least have their rightness to comfort them when the whole world's shaking its head or rolling its eyes.

It seems easier to be wise than to reliably be right. That's kind of what I want to be-- wise. Most of all, I want to see clearly.

I'll leave the being right to others.
To be clear my desire to be right over being popular is not a statement that I even for a moment think I am always right. Unfortunately that is not even humanly possible.

However the need to be popular drives people to say things like how talking about other things beyond the scope of the original thread is de-railing. Scroll back and review how many seem to be setting their hair on fire about a thread for which their is no new data just the bare bone description of the original event available. Conversation like nature abhors a vacuum.

On the subject of wisdom you might consider if it is truly wise to keep the lines of communication open with so many whom enthusiastically embrace racism and the beyond evil practice of human slavery. These types of crimes against humanity will continue until the decent and morally civilized people of the New Eden Cluster put enough military and economic pressure on them to force them to change, it will not happen over tea and scones alone. Making their lives pleasant and enjoyable with polite conversation just extends the horror of slavery for the victims of their inhumane cult. Something if you were subjected to you would not desire to continue endlessly. I think you might find it wise to think about the uncountable millions of your fellow human beings who suffer at the hands of the cult supported by the people you like to be liked by.

It might cause you to change your ways and support the morally civilized segments of the New Eden Cluster that fight actively against the evil of human slavery.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#285 - 2017-04-03 20:38:06 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I would point out that we are fifteen noisy and futile pages into what can only be generously described as a conversation. So much speculation and so much outrage - and no new information.

Perhaps now is that time to admit that without more actual data, there's little point in continuing this. Most of you had made up your minds already and only new information could change 'em.

Sheyan Mazaki wrote:

Apologies, but you haven't. Until evidence on this particular event is shared and/or more information is brought to light, I agree with others including Miss Jenneth that judgement should be withheld. On all fronts. Assumptions and speculations will only lead to further conflict and distractions from ending this crisis once and for all.

I am actually agree with both of you, and looks like this discussion came to conclusion (well, besides this little raging tribal™ who is again at his thing). I would really myself love to hear what our HQ will tell about this incident, but while they don't - I just believe that our guys did everything professionally according to the protocol and Quafe just stirs lies and propaganda.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#286 - 2017-04-03 22:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Mr. Ronin, I don't join the Amarr for tea and crumpets because I want them to like me, but because I want to represent the Praefecta well and not cause trouble for her (and, I like the Amarr) (actually I like almost everybody. I'm a little indiscriminate about that, I guess).

To me, basically everything is personal. Kindnesses and cruelties loom larger than abstractions, even if I know those abstractions have lots of real, concrete faces. And there's someone I owe a little more than I owe to your moral crusade.

I'm aware that makes me "the enemy," as Ms. Rhiannon puts it. I'm kind of okay with that, although it makes me a little sad.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#287 - 2017-04-03 23:35:17 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I wonder what your point is here, Mr. Syagrius. If you're looking to pick a fight with Mr. Toov, I'll just stand aside and let you get to it....
Now now, I am not looking to pick a fight with anyone my dear, if I were you wouldn't have to guess. The term respectable just struck me as funny... considering.
Considering?

Respect is something constructed only slowly, Mr. Syagrius, and lost in seconds for any number of reasons. That might not seem to you like the way it should be, but that is typically how it works. For example, respect for a person's integrity might be lost in a single disingenuous moment, while respect for someone's insight and sound judgment is lost in a moment's awful folly.
Once I'd have assumed you knew this implicitly. Now....
Obviously I'm still listening to you, Mr. Syagrius. Only, once I'd have watched you as a student watches a teacher. Now I watch you much as I watch anyone: as a person playing a part in this world, and fascinating on that account alone, but not really someone I should expect to learn something really worthwhile from.
It seems that losing my regard might have cut you more than you claimed at the time. Good. Maybe you'll show yourself to be a particularly interesting person again. I try to leave that possibility open for anyone. At least one of your apparent companions already has my attention that way.
I kind of doubt it'll happen by you following me around making oblique, significant remarks, though, "my dear." But it doesn't surprise me if you might think otherwise.

Considering.
Dear me I seem to have struck a nerve. My pardon indeed, I would normally say my dear, but apparently, that offends you. It’s a paternal instinct which usually means I like someone, even if on the sly, but you do seem well beyond such trivial human concerns.

It does upset me that you once regarded me so highly. I had no idea. But since we are being honest I will let you in on a little secret. I use words to gain effect, sometimes I tell the truth, sometimes I lie and sometimes I do both at the same time. Words you see are tools, like wealth or ships, some few can tell the difference.

But you, however… see I almost said my dear again, do seem to think a lot of yourself. As I am unchanged, I can only assume your perception of me before was flawed. But fear not, I won’t think less of you for it, after all you are entitled to your opinion. I only hope that you are an honest enough person to hold yourself to the same high standard as you do everyone else.

Like you I always listen, so please feel free to reply, I know how you like to have the last word. But for my part, our conversation is over…. See I almost said it again....
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#288 - 2017-04-03 23:36:51 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I would point out that we are fifteen noisy and futile pages into what can only be generously described as a conversation. So much speculation and so much outrage - and no new information.

Perhaps now is that time to admit that without more actual data, there's little point in continuing this. Most of you had made up your minds already and only new information could change 'em.
True enough, until more is known I will keep my peace.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#289 - 2017-04-04 00:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
James Syagrius wrote:
Dear me I seem to have struck a nerve....


Actually you just kind of irritated me.

Quote:
But you, however… see I almost said my dear again, do seem to think a lot of yourself.


Now, that's a nerve you're poking at. Arrogance is about as close a thing to evil as I believe in, and I do have a capacity for arrogance. The flaw I most despise in others is, maybe inevitably, the one I most despise in myself. It's a criticism I tend to be sensitive to as a result.

Only, your power to hurt me with it is limited. Pieter can use it, and the Praefecta, obviously. It'd be kind of devastating from either. Actually any random person can probably hurt me that way, at least a little. But you, sir? Not so much.

One other person who can't hurt me this way is the being formerly known as Veikitamo Gesakaarin, who I recently learned was not only my senior at PY-RE, but actually its founder. Veiki's history is a history of masks, and awful things said and done to maintain them. It got so it was impossible to tell which was the real Veik.

And then of course it turned out the answer was, none of them. Now the man behind all those masks tells me he was just playing a part, that I shouldn't think of him the same way-- as though he hadn't, through her, killed gratuitously for the sake of appearing a gratuitous killer. As though it were apparent that he wears no mask, now, or that anything about him could be trusted beyond a confirmed capacity for murder for appearances' sake.

I try not to trust tricksters, Mr. Syagrius, or empower them to hurt me with words. That goes even for the ones whose judgment I don't have reason to doubt.

It's good to see you talking constructively with Pieter. I hope that continues.

Be well.
Matar Ronin
#290 - 2017-04-04 05:33:13 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Mr. Ronin, I don't join the Amarr for tea and crumpets because I want them to like me, but because I want to represent the Praefecta well and not cause trouble for her (and, I like the Amarr) (actually I like almost everybody. I'm a little indiscriminate about that, I guess).

To me, basically everything is personal. Kindnesses and cruelties loom larger than abstractions, even if I know those abstractions have lots of real, concrete faces. And there's someone I owe a little more than I owe to your moral crusade.

I'm aware that makes me "the enemy," as Ms. Rhiannon puts it. I'm kind of okay with that, although it makes me a little sad.
These are indeed interesting times when the person on the civilized moral crusade is the pariah for standing up for universal human rights and freedom from inhumane slavery.

You might think you owe nothing to my moral crusade but that is only because the horror you do choose to discriminate away from your pleasant reality does not affect you directly, yet. Sadly if it ever does it will be far too late for you to do anything about it.

Fortunately for selfish people like you, people like me, continue to hammer at the walls of the evil slavery cult in the hope of shrinking it's domain instead of supporting it so it can one day overwhelm the entire cluster as they openly desire. So pilot Jenneth continue to frolic on in your self indulgent callous hallucination knowing that even your freedom is worth protecting to foolish crusaders like me.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Maria Daphiti
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#291 - 2017-04-04 06:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Daphiti
Matar Ronin wrote:
These are indeed interesting times when the person on the civilized moral crusade is the pariah for standing up for universal human rights and freedom from inhumane slavery.



You're a pariah cause of the prior zillion ranting posts on this thread and a buncha others on the IGS at anyone an' everyone who disagrees with ya on the duel obsession with Pilot Kim

Now you're changing the subject.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#292 - 2017-04-04 07:20:50 UTC
Seconded Maria. Stop ranting so much on the IGS and go mingle with your fellow Matari. Maybe go take in the sights and sounds of the Great Caravanserai's bazaar, hike at the Tronhadar Valley, experience the bitter cold of Mikramurka, visit your ancestral homes or your clan enclave, etc.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#293 - 2017-04-04 09:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Matar Ronin wrote:
These are indeed interesting times when the person on the civilized moral crusade is the pariah for standing up for universal human rights and freedom from inhumane slavery.

You might think you owe nothing to my moral crusade but that is only because the horror you do choose to discriminate away from your pleasant reality does not affect you directly, yet. Sadly if it ever does it will be far too late for you to do anything about it.

Fortunately for selfish people like you, people like me, continue to hammer at the walls of the evil slavery cult in the hope of shrinking it's domain instead of supporting it so it can one day overwhelm the entire cluster as they openly desire. So pilot Jenneth continue to frolic on in your self indulgent callous hallucination knowing that even your freedom is worth protecting to foolish crusaders like me.

Mr. Ronin, I could owe your moral crusade a lot without it outweighing my private debt.

You seem like a person who can probably understand the weight of the words, "blood oath." That's what I took, entering the Praefecta's service. It's not something I did on a casual whim, either. Twice, she took me in: once as a lost child; once as a wounded Falcon, dripping blood and soot. She took me in, helped me find my way-- helped me heal. She didn't have to do that, either time.

Even if I understand your feelings, even if I sympathize, this private debt is more important to me. If that makes me a selfish person, I'll accept that. If it means being "the enemy" of people I have no reason to despise, I'll accept that, too. If it means dying, or killing, for a cause I owe only vicarious loyalty to, it's only what I've promised to do.

To be aide, agent, and servant to someone I owe a debt I can't ever repay-- that's my self-indulgent callous hallucination.

Maybe that's all it is, a figment wrapped in pride. But it's my part to play in this world, and I'll play it with all my heart.

Let my soul be burned away to dust and ash, if it is for her sake. That is what I owe.
Matar Ronin
#294 - 2017-04-04 18:10:14 UTC
Maria Daphiti wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
These are indeed interesting times when the person on the civilized moral crusade is the pariah for standing up for universal human rights and freedom from inhumane slavery.



You're a pariah cause of the prior zillion ranting posts on this thread and a buncha others on the IGS at anyone an' everyone who disagrees with ya on the duel obsession with Pilot Kim

Now you're changing the subject.
P. Phony
I. Ignorant
E. Excrement
Pretty much explains your value but thanks for your input.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#295 - 2017-04-04 18:13:04 UTC
Why do I still frequent this place? Do I hate myself? Is it a form of self-harm?

I should have a doctor scoop out my other eyeball.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#296 - 2017-04-04 18:19:12 UTC
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:
Why do I still frequent this place? Do I hate myself? Is it a form of self-harm?

I should have a doctor scoop out my other eyeball.

Well ... it's not like nothing worthwhile ever gets said, my lord. There might be bits you'fre better off just skimming, if not skipping, though.
Tsao Aubbes
Tidal Lock
Vapor-Lock
#297 - 2017-04-04 18:20:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsao Aubbes
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:
Why do I still frequent this place? Do I hate myself? Is it a form of self-harm?

I should have a doctor scoop out my other eyeball.

Oh, I'm not sure that's a good idea, Mr. Ibrahin, I'm sure there's people who'd miss you if you left.

Tressith Sefira > You don't understand. She IS the awkward.

Matar Ronin
#298 - 2017-04-04 18:31:52 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
These are indeed interesting times when the person on the civilized moral crusade is the pariah for standing up for universal human rights and freedom from inhumane slavery.

You might think you owe nothing to my moral crusade but that is only because the horror you do choose to discriminate away from your pleasant reality does not affect you directly, yet. Sadly if it ever does it will be far too late for you to do anything about it.

Fortunately for selfish people like you, people like me, continue to hammer at the walls of the evil slavery cult in the hope of shrinking it's domain instead of supporting it so it can one day overwhelm the entire cluster as they openly desire. So pilot Jenneth continue to frolic on in your self indulgent callous hallucination knowing that even your freedom is worth protecting to foolish crusaders like me.

Mr. Ronin, I could owe your moral crusade a lot without it outweighing my private debt.

You seem like a person who can probably understand the weight of the words, "blood oath." That's what I took, entering the Praefecta's service. It's not something I did on a casual whim, either. Twice, she took me in: once as a lost child; once as a wounded Falcon, dripping blood and soot. She took me in, helped me find my way-- helped me heal. She didn't have to do that, either time.

Even if I understand your feelings, even if I sympathize, this private debt is more important to me. If that makes me a selfish person, I'll accept that. If it means being "the enemy" of people I have no reason to despise, I'll accept that, too. If it means dying, or killing, for a cause I owe only vicarious loyalty to, it's only what I've promised to do.

To be aide, agent, and servant to someone I owe a debt I can't ever repay-- that's my self-indulgent callous hallucination.

Maybe that's all it is, a figment wrapped in pride. But it's my part to play in this world, and I'll play it with all my heart.

Let my soul be burned away to dust and ash, if it is for her sake. That is what I owe.
Agree with you or not you do have a gift with the written word, poetic and personal.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#299 - 2017-04-04 18:52:14 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
P. Phony
I. Ignorant
E. Excrement
Pretty much explains your value but thanks for your input.
Hey.

Hey Matar.

My daughter wants you to know something.

She says you're a poopy face.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#300 - 2017-04-04 18:55:50 UTC
PIE, Permanently In Empire