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How many more players must we lose to bullying

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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#421 - 2017-03-31 14:14:46 UTC
Completely destroyed emergent gameplay huh? Could you guys just not bring mor- oh yeah, you're organization is incompetant and pathetically small... never mind.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#422 - 2017-03-31 14:16:29 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Don't be silly, people don't like clutter,


1.8 billion dollars disagrees with you.

From the article:

Quote:
This is the peril of listening to what your customers say instead of what they actually did. Turns out that while they enjoyed the increase in negative space inside the stores, what matters more to Walmart customers is a vast selection of cheap items.

This is the same strategy that Sam Walton pioneered and the company is now scrambling to return to.


This is the way forward for CCP. Return EVE to what made it great, the danger, the challenge, the thrill of beating frustration.


It's not that people like clutter, it's that more sellable products are in their vision increasing the chances they see something and say 'ooh that looks nice', customer satisfaction even shot up surely meaning more Walmart customers would recommend it. Besides though this is completely irrelevant. Before you say 'new coke', what that proves is that people enjoy the familiar. Now to eve, it's a small game, sure it's different, but is that always in a good way? An upside down staircase is different but not much help for getting upstairs.

Some of the posts here show just how serious people like Jenn aSide take this game. That's your own personal problem, its just a game miner chill. Many people surprisingly find laid back games fun, and that is exactly the reason any war dec groups operate in hs, concord protection, easy targets, etc. I'm going to stand by my belief that people don't enjoy being slapped in the face, but feel free to continue trying to convince me. You'll need to show that eve is open to changes because nothing is perfect as is.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#423 - 2017-03-31 14:21:27 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Completely destroyed emergent gameplay huh? Could you guys just not bring mor- oh yeah, you're organization is incompetant and pathetically small... never mind.


What organisation are you talking about, I am not currently involved in any AG activities, I am in 0.0 shooting and being shot at by PL and others, and the alliance I am in is a long long way from incompetent.

It was emergent gameplay Mr Pig which your guys could not handle, because it was small fast ships getting in and blapping, reminds me of something doesn't it, of course AG fails, but for that brief period before Endie did the business the Gankers failed big time and the shouting over comms was just so funny, god I wish I had recorded it...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Tasspool Harp
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#424 - 2017-03-31 14:23:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Don't be silly, people don't like clutter,


1.8 billion dollars disagrees with you.

From the article:

Quote:
This is the peril of listening to what your customers say instead of what they actually did. Turns out that while they enjoyed the increase in negative space inside the stores, what matters more to Walmart customers is a vast selection of cheap items.

This is the same strategy that Sam Walton pioneered and the company is now scrambling to return to.


This is the way forward for CCP. Return EVE to what made it great, the danger, the challenge, the thrill of beating frustration.


what , how about "a vast selection of cheap items" ?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#425 - 2017-03-31 14:40:30 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:


Some of the posts here show just how serious people like Jenn aSide take this game. That's your own personal problem, its just a game miner chill.


And yet you keep talking about it. "It's not important to me but I'm going to keep talking about it" is an example of a person lying to themselves. That's your personal problem.


Quote:

Many people surprisingly find laid back games fun


I'm sure they do. I enjoy a nice game of solitaire from time to time lol. What I don't do is complain to the makers of solitare that their game would be so much better if they modified it's basic core identity to be a multiplayer game with unicorns that crap diamonds lol.

This is basically what you do. You've come to a game that at it's core is ANTI-laid back and advocated a total change for your personal enjoyment, and then (in standard dishonest fashion) pretended that this personal desire is somehow "for the good of the game and new players".

I've been watching people do that on this forum for 10 years and I find it irritating. It's not devastating because it's only a forum and you have no power that would actually matter (CCPs disastrous path of safing up and dumbing down the game for the last 5 years didn't come from forum feed back, but more likely from a combination of stakeholder desire for more profit and internal misguided beliefs about what sells in the current mmo market).



Quote:

, and that is exactly the reason any war dec groups operate in hs, concord protection, easy targets, etc. I'm going to stand by my belief that people don't enjoy being slapped in the face, but feel free to continue trying to convince me. You'll need to show that eve is open to changes because nothing is perfect as is.


If you think I'm trying to convince you, then your thought process is more damaged than I imagined. I don't really care what you believe, and while my demonstrating to you why what you believe is wrong might (one day) help you, that's not the reason either.

I'm simply a member of this community that wants the record to be straight about what's happening with this game. It's a shame to see one of the only real adult games suffer from the do-gooder "save the children" attitudes modern people have. It's a shame to see people WANT CCP to continue to move this unique game into the kind of same mushy bullshit most other games are/have become.

EVE Online is one of the last video game refuges for people of my gaming generation, gamers that don't need or appreciate hand holding or being told we're "special" and thus deserving of 'protection' from harsh reality. And it's slowy being eroded into cheerful protectionist bullshit. Which again isn't the end of the world because it's just a video game, but still a damn shame.


Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#426 - 2017-03-31 14:43:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Don't be silly, people don't like clutter,


1.8 billion dollars disagrees with you.

From the article:

Quote:
This is the peril of listening to what your customers say instead of what they actually did. Turns out that while they enjoyed the increase in negative space inside the stores, what matters more to Walmart customers is a vast selection of cheap items.

This is the same strategy that Sam Walton pioneered and the company is now scrambling to return to.


This is the way forward for CCP. Return EVE to what made it great, the danger, the challenge, the thrill of beating frustration.


It's not that people like clutter, it's that more sellable products are in their vision increasing the chances they see something and say 'ooh that looks nice', customer satisfaction even shot up surely meaning more Walmart customers would recommend it. Besides though this is completely irrelevant. Before you say 'new coke', what that proves is that people enjoy the familiar. Now to eve, it's a small game, sure it's different, but is that always in a good way? An upside down staircase is different but not much help for getting upstairs.

Some of the posts here show just how serious people like Jenn aSide take this game. That's your own personal problem, its just a game miner chill. Many people surprisingly find laid back games fun, and that is exactly the reason any war dec groups operate in hs, concord protection, easy targets, etc. I'm going to stand by my belief that people don't enjoy being slapped in the face, but feel free to continue trying to convince me. You'll need to show that eve is open to changes because nothing is perfect as is.


If you don't like being slapped in the face, then slap back. EVE allows this. The power to do so is entirely within your hands. This is what we are trying to explain to you. This is what EVE is, a PLAYER DRIVEN GAME. You are a player. Get out there and drive it. The point of EVE is to make it what you want it to be, which is what drives the conflict because other players are trying to make it what they want it to be, and if what they want out of it conflicts with what you want out of it, then there is your PVP.

And no, concord protection is not the reason wardeccers operate out of highsec. The reason people wardec in highsec is because highsec is the only place where wardecs really matter. And there are many reasons to wardec in highsec, not the least of which is removing the illusion of safety from people that think they can find it in highsec. You claim you've played for seven years and then say something stupid like this and I have to call bullshit, I don't think you've played for more than seven minutes. If you legitimately think people wardec for 'safety' you are actually missing braincells. Declaring war is not risk free. As soon as someone assists the target, it can change the whole dynamic and really mess with a wardeccer's plans in unpredictable ways. The mere existence of the ability to assist is often overlooked by idiots like you and I'm starting to think on purpose. The fact is, the assist gives a defender all the advantages over an attacker by a longshot, because assists are free and unlimited.

I don't need to convince you that you'll enjoy being slapped in the face. I don't need to convince you of anything. The facts are there for you to see if you want to, and to ignore if you want to do that, but ignoring a tornado doesn't mean your house won't get swept away by it.

People take this game seriously because they know what it is and love what it is. You and others like you think you can change it to suit you because you don't know what it is, or ignore what it is. And then you dare to deride us and judge us because we defend what we love, as if we somehow shouldn't because your personal sense of moral superiority demands it. Well, **** you. Who even are you? Another weakling on the forums who talks big but loses the actual game itself even bigger. Otherwise, why would you be crying so hard on the forums about wardecs?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#427 - 2017-03-31 15:06:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:


Many people surprisingly find laid back games fun


I'm sure they do. I enjoy a nice game of solitaire from time to time lol. What I don't do is complain to the makers of solitare that their game would be so much better if they modified it's basic core identity to be a multiplayer game with unicorns that crap diamonds lol.


This. When I want a laid-back casual space game, I go play Elite. When I want story, I go play Mass Effect or Fallout. When I want gunporn, I go play Borderlands. When I want hardcore PVP, I resub to EVE and play that for a few months until it's out of my system. You don't change the game to suit your needs, Mieyli. You find a different game. If EVE doesn't do it for you, don't play it. If it brings you back despite all that, then there must be something to it that does that for you, and you're going to have to learn to adapt to what it is. EVE certainly needs to grow and adapt and change in any given number of ways, and it has done so throughout its history, but when it changes away from its core nature, that is bad, even if its for the sake of getting more subs, because EVE is something that nothing else is, and if it becomes more like every other game out there, then what is it but every other game out there? Might as well play one of those instead. For example: If you change EVE to cater to more casual gamers, Elite already does that better. Why subscribe to EVE if it loses what makes it unique?

This is a niche game for a niche crowd. A crowd that is thinning thanks no less to a younger generation of gamers that expect handholding and are used to getting what they demand. If the game dies, it's not because it's bad, but because the gamers that can handle such a unique experience got too thin to support it. And make no mistake, even if it changes to suit this new weak generation of gamers, it still dies. It becomes EVE Online in name only, and what it once was, that unique experience that made it into the New York Museum of Modern Art, is gone. I'm sure the devs would make a tonne of money if they decided to cater to mass appeal, but if the money was all they were interested in, and they really had no passion for the game, then why haven't they already done that? Even when they introduced a free to play option, they took their time fleshing out the system to do their darndest to keep the EVE Online experience as true to its original intended nature as possible, and they did a damn good job of it too. They didn't have to, but they did.

I don't believe the devs are as interested in just the money as you and so many that cry "but think of the children!" think they do. I think they have an actual passion for the game, and are trying hard to keep it in the niche it carved out for itself, quite successfully as well given that it's well over a decade old at this stage. I think you'll find that your footstomping in that regard is going to go as unheard as it has from others over the past fifteen years, as well. This is why I don't panic when people decry falling subscription numbers as a reason to go full mass appeal with this game, because I have yet to see the devs betray their passion for this game and all its history, its legacy, to financial spoils. I think many of the devs would agree with me that it would be better if this game were to simply end on its own merits than to make it into something it was never meant to be just for the sake of mass appeal.

That's why, if you want to play this game, you're simply going to have to HTFU and learn to adapt to what it is.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#428 - 2017-03-31 15:10:38 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Completely destroyed emergent gameplay huh? Could you guys just not bring mor- oh yeah, you're organization is incompetant and pathetically small... never mind.


What organisation are you talking about, I am not currently involved in any AG activities, I am in 0.0 shooting and being shot at by PL and others, and the alliance I am in is a long long way from incompetent.

It was emergent gameplay Mr Pig which your guys could not handle, because it was small fast ships getting in and blapping, reminds me of something doesn't it, of course AG fails, but for that brief period before Endie did the business the Gankers failed big time and the shouting over comms was just so funny, god I wish I had recorded it...


So instead of adapting to a balance change by bringing more firepower like normal people would do, you guys gave up and decided to instead cry about it on the forums forever more.

Little girls, the lot of you.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#429 - 2017-03-31 15:13:37 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
...of course AG fails...


Also, this I going in my sig.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#430 - 2017-03-31 15:34:38 UTC
The superiority complex is astounding, I'll just end by saying that eve is not just one thing, it is supposed to be whatever you make it. It could be bigger than it is but you lot are too paranoid to see that as anything other than a threat. That your precious game would be ruined. You're never going to see the end of these threads until the day eve closes down, and I'd put money that eve will become more and more casual friendly even if you don't want it. Better to steer the change than hopelessly fight it.

You go to your weird restaurant where the menu is upside down and in Chinese and the waiters spit in your face unless you wrestle them to the ground first just so you feel smart. I'll go somewhere that meets what I want, which before anyone asks for my stuff, will include a limited amount of eve, relaxing, because **** your combat, try and spoil my game I dare you.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#431 - 2017-03-31 15:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Mr Mieyli wrote:
The superiority complex is astounding, I'll just end by saying that eve is not just one thing, it is supposed to be whatever you make it. It could be bigger than it is but you lot are too paranoid to see that as anything other than a threat. That your precious game would be ruined. You're never going to see the end of these threads until the day eve closes down, and I'd put money that eve will become more and more casual friendly even if you don't want it. Better to steer the change than hopelessly fight it.

You go to your weird restaurant where the menu is upside down and in Chinese and the waiters spit in your face unless you wrestle them to the ground first just so you feel smart. I'll go somewhere that meets what I want, which before anyone asks for my stuff, will include a limited amount of eve, relaxing, because **** your combat, try and spoil my game I dare you.



In an earlier post in this thread I mentioned 3 ironies. The above quoted post is the 4th irony, because in his last sentence , Mr Mieyli actually for once sounded like an actual EVE player Twisted
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#432 - 2017-03-31 16:58:13 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
The superiority complex is astounding, I'll just end by saying that eve is not just one thing, it is supposed to be whatever you make it.

Whatever you try to make it. Success is not guaranteed. This seems to be a major sticking point for you.

Quote:
It could be bigger than it is but you lot are too paranoid to see that as anything other than a threat.

Actually, many people here would reactive positively towards helpful changes. Removing a whole cornerstone of the sandbox PvP experience is not such an idea.

Quote:
You're never going to see the end of these threads until the day eve closes down, and I'd put money that eve will become more and more casual friendly even if you don't want it. Better to steer the change than hopelessly fight it.

Why steer towards the game's death instead of away from it?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#433 - 2017-03-31 17:02:18 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Little girls, the lot of you.
If I were to chart all the salt filled posts of the last few years, I'm pretty sure CODE members would take most of the top ten slots.

Glass houses, Pig. Best move out of yours.

Mr Epeen Cool
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#434 - 2017-03-31 17:37:15 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
...my biggest regret during the brief time that AG was able to operate on an equal footing to the gankers...



That change just BROKE you guys, didn't it?

I can't even imagine what it's like to be so easily defeated and demoralized.

If I were you, I'd be trying to downplay this humiliation rather that bringing it up at every opportunity, reminding people just what a bunch of hopeless quitters you are.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#435 - 2017-03-31 19:22:43 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
...my biggest regret during the brief time that AG was able to operate on an equal footing to the gankers...



That change just BROKE you guys, didn't it?

I can't even imagine what it's like to be so easily defeated and demoralized.

If I were you, I'd be trying to downplay this humiliation rather that bringing it up at every opportunity, reminding people just what a bunch of hopeless quitters you are.


Believe what you want, I really don't care. The leaders of AG are still there and still operating and I was never a leader and was not even in the militia. So what a line member decided it was not worth bothering with, big deal, awesome victory mate.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#436 - 2017-03-31 20:02:03 UTC
So you're giving up at this too. Huge surprise.

Just concede that AG is fail and try to distance yourself from them, good strategy bro.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Zander Moreau
Poor Fellow-Soldiers of James 315 and of Hek.
CODE.
#437 - 2017-03-31 20:46:46 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Little girls, the lot of you.
If I were to chart all the salt filled posts of the last few years, I'm pretty sure CODE members would take most of the top ten slots.


'
Really? And so, I'm sure, you have forum threads and/or screenshots to back this claim up, yes? Otherwise it's another baseless claim.

"We will bring you love... and by love, I mean lasers."

Pope Maximillian Singularity VI, First of His Name
Gwenaelle de Ardevon
Ardevon Corporation
#438 - 2017-03-31 21:25:42 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Gwenaelle de Ardevon wrote:

THIS!

You log in,
you undock ............. you compete with other player.
Simple as that, what ever you do, you do PvP.


I tried asking this question to Remiel and the CODE players but not quite in this format but it was similar to this in terms of the value from the kills they have, I just got told I did not understand Eve or insulted, but let me try you.

Would you call doing a 100m sprint against a man with no legs a competition or something that makes you feel good about winning. Or is it that you got him to compete in a race he could never win and you could goad him for being so stupid as to get in a race he could not win.

I don't get Eve because I see no value in winning such a race? Is that correct.

And by the way I am not knocking them for doing such kills or insulting them, but more to say that it does not rock my boat or gives me very little sense of achievement.


Hey Dracvlad...
1) I would say you understand EVE probably much better than I do. ... Why ? Because you have probably tried more things than I.
I play "only" the industry part of the game. The economy is the reason i play.

2) No! A race against a man with no legs is not a challenge. I my eyes it's just a stupidity.
I think the bumping mechanic is flawed... bumping yes, why not? But, ships should be damaged by bumping.

3) No problem, personaly I see no value in such a race.
Ok i'm not agressiv, I never shot other pilots. Not one of all my chars has ever killed. This is my choice!
Why?
I have no FUN, flying around & shooting other players.
After few months in Null i did leave it...
Personaly i have much more fun in HS.
And no. i do not have problems with agressions, I accept it because it's part of the game.
Gankers, Wardeccers, Bumpers can not prevent me from doing my thing.
Most of my chars (27) are in self owned corps, 3 alphas are in NPC.

«An hour sitting with a pretty girl on a park bench passes like a minute, but a minute sitting on a hot stove seems like an hour». Albert Einstein - [11, S. 154]

More Quotes, Poetry & Prose on: https://gwenaelledeardevon.wordpress.com/
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#439 - 2017-03-31 21:32:36 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
So you're giving up at this too. Huge surprise.

Just concede that AG is fail and try to distance yourself from them, good strategy bro.


No, if I am in hisec and see a gank going down I will help defend it, which is what I was doing before. o7

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#440 - 2017-03-31 23:41:49 UTC
The retardation is strong in this thread. There are 8000 systems to PvP in. That includes high with wardecs. EvE is big enough for multiple play styles. The game needs carebear space and that is high, that's how it was designed. That's what CCP needs to rethink. You won't have PvP anywhere if EvE continues to slide in sub's.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)