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[March] Rorqual and Mining changes

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Coelomate Tian
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#841 - 2017-03-13 13:00:30 UTC
They won't be rip content. People will still use lots of rorqs, and lots of rorqs will die.

Never underestimate greed (rorq income will still be best in the game for the effort required) coupled with hubris (P.A.N.I.C. button still exists).

$10 says 6 months from now we're seeing similar rorqual usage/death rates, absent further major balance changes.
starmaser darkborn
Tyrant's
Short Bus Syndicate
#842 - 2017-03-13 14:01:51 UTC
I don't fly rorqs but I feel like the problems have other solutions. For example:

- Make EWAR not operable during PANIC

- Make a Cyno not usable during PANIC or you cant PANIC while using a cyno

- Raise the stenosis time multiplier to something obscene

Those would be probable solutions to the problems. Rorqs are capitals with little dps or combat ability (as far as I know), having the PANIC work while moving or transporting is a necessity in my opinion.

Thoughts?
Trevize Demerzel
#843 - 2017-03-13 14:21:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Trevize Demerzel
starmaser darkborn wrote:
I don't fly rorqs but I feel like the problems have other solutions. For example:

- Make EWAR not operable during PANIC

- Make a Cyno not usable during PANIC or you cant PANIC while using a cyno

- Raise the stenosis time multiplier to something obscene

Those would be probable solutions to the problems. Rorqs are capitals with little dps or combat ability (as far as I know), having the PANIC work while moving or transporting is a necessity in my opinion.

Thoughts?



They've really not done a thing to prevent the battle/tackle Rorq in belts.

ie:

Tackle Rorq jumps into belt and tackles a mining Rorq. Tackle rorq targets rock. Boom PANIC, safe. No change from before. CCP Dev does facepalm wondering why he didn't think of that..

-
Rich Nolen
Imperial Guardians
Tactical Narcotics Team
#844 - 2017-03-14 03:30:09 UTC
The changes to the excavator drones is really alarming. A 50% reduction in yield, with a reduced cycle time for an effective 25% yield loss. This has a sizeable negative impact on smaller corporations who can only afford to field a limited number of Rorquals. Also, the incredible investment per ship with the Hull and Fit is something that should result in an incredible return.

This is really a large Nerf (balance pass being the politically correct term) and the scariest part is that it pretty much takes the ship to the max reduction before it makes it irrelevant again, might as well leave them in the POS if nerfed any more. Sorry but the "the boosts are really a great part of it" does not make up for stripping the yield by this amount.

The Rorqual was finally made worth it to take out into the belts, and I think it was received positively. But this large of a yield hit sends the wrong message and the huge groups who are fielding hundreds of these ships will simply field more to compensate and the smaller corps and solo players will pay the price, with yet another Nerf.

This is how the player base is lost, senseless changes that enrage veteran players who invest a lot in broken promises made by CCP, IE the release of the Rorqual as a great mining ship.
Ghillie Troll Askold
Singularity Dynamics
#845 - 2017-03-14 10:52:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghillie Troll Askold
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We knew there would be inertia involved in player behavior that might cause the ship to remain underused if it ended up “just barely good enough”.

*makes the ship “just barely good enough”*
*quote edited to more realistically reflect the upcoming changes



I also wonder, with increased travel time, rock size, and rock separation, I'm actually curious at this point if the Rorqual will even be able to out-mine a single hulk.

Even if it was a situation where the only nerf was the cycle time and yeild changes, the Rorqual would still mine ~2 hulks worth of ore. In practicality it's likely to be closer to 1.25-1.75 Hulks. Given fuel costs, at that point, it might even be more profitable to field ONE SINGLE HULK.

So, in order to fly a Rorqual and use Excavator drones, I could either invest ~1b in skillbooks, several months of training time, and another ~8-9b in ship and fitting. That's about 9-10b, all things considered.

Alternatively, I could invest a month of training time into getting two characters into Hulks, pay less than 150m for all of the required skills, and then have two Hulks. PLEX cost inluded, 2.5b. That's two hulk characters and three months of PLEX for each of them for the same price as a Rorqual, not even counting the PLEX or money spent on injecting or training the Rorqual pilot.

Please explain how that sounds like balanced risk vs. reward.
Huydo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#846 - 2017-03-14 11:50:57 UTC
RIP now.

Rorqual contend will be missed.
JOHNNY Rolette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#847 - 2017-03-14 11:54:08 UTC  |  Edited by: JOHNNY Rolette
This thread like many others, everyone who like tthis want to blob and kill rorquals and are NOT industrial people. People who hate this update are rorqlual pilots and spend 9-11b isk for each one.

Conclusion of this are ccp are making pirates and blobs better and worse for industrial aspect, when few of them like to gate ganking in highsec with their alts at weekends and coffee breaks...

Is it so in the real world are the capitalists rules, and now its anarchists rule eve online to have revenge of the real world??

Without miners, there are now shipbuilders, without shipbuilders there are no fleets, without fleets there are no pirates and blobs... think about it...

Thanks again CCP for demolish a great game once more...
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#848 - 2017-03-14 12:28:34 UTC
JOHNNY Rolette wrote:
This thread like many others, everyone who like tthis want to blob and kill rorquals and are NOT industrial people. People who hate this update are rorqlual pilots and spend 9-11b isk for each one.

Conclusion of this are ccp are making pirates and blobs better and worse for industrial aspect, when few of them like to gate ganking in highsec with their alts at weekends and coffee breaks...

Is it so in the real world are the capitalists rules, and now its anarchists rule eve online to have revenge of the real world??

Without miners, there are now shipbuilders, without shipbuilders there are no fleets, without fleets there are no pirates and blobs... think about it...

Thanks again CCP for demolish a great game once more...


Or you could do it like this:
go back to mining with 30 hulks and 1 rorquals and the rorqual compresses as the hulks mine :3
The hulks sit on top of the rorqual and the rorqual compresses as it mines.
Not as good as before but it'll still be good.
Just because rorquals get nerfed a little doesn't mean that the EVE economy collapses because no one mines anymorre.
Manks Girl
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#849 - 2017-03-14 12:31:33 UTC
How is this a 25% nerf? I am mining a 50% less yield, excavators 15k away from me and extremely slow return?

This is going to have a huge impact to industrialists across EVE who finally had the ability to use their heavily invested skills with risk vs reward.

I can't see why we would field 13b isk ships to mine what seems as 100m per hour.

Madness, CCP this is one of the worst I've seen so far.
JOHNNY Rolette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#850 - 2017-03-14 12:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: JOHNNY Rolette
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
[quote=JOHNNY Rolette]

Or you could do it like this:
go back to mining with 30 hulks and 1 rorquals and the rorqual compresses as the hulks mine :3
The hulks sit on top of the rorqual and the rorqual compresses as it mines.
Not as good as before but it'll still be good.
Just because rorquals get nerfed a little doesn't mean that the EVE economy collapses because no one mines anymorre.



Probebly, but no need for rorql for compress, without any PANIC button, only for burst module then, but orca is good too. Back to hauler again. No need to build more rorquals and train my alt for it, nowadays....
Manks Girl
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#851 - 2017-03-14 12:38:03 UTC
JOHNNY Rolette wrote:
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
[quote=JOHNNY Rolette]

Or you could do it like this:
go back to mining with 30 hulks and 1 rorquals and the rorqual compresses as the hulks mine :3
The hulks sit on top of the rorqual and the rorqual compresses as it mines.
Not as good as before but it'll still be good.
Just because rorquals get nerfed a little doesn't mean that the EVE economy collapses because no one mines anymorre.



Probebly, but no need for rorql for compress, without any PANIC button, only for burst module then, but orca is good too. Back to hauler again. No need to build more rorquals and train my alt for it, nowadays....


It isn't a little, it's 50% and your excavators orbiting around roids so are 18k away from you moving at 500m/s.

This is broken.
clipper shore
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#852 - 2017-03-14 12:44:30 UTC
rip eve spend alll that and then the nerf it into the ground bact to playing some other game
Coelomate Tian
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#853 - 2017-03-14 13:33:05 UTC
Happy patch day everyone!

Can't wait for all the crying about Big Spod, especially all of the crying about Big Spod that fails to mention all of the non-gigantic rocks in the anom.
Cade Windstalker
#854 - 2017-03-14 14:21:59 UTC
Coelomate Tian wrote:
Happy patch day everyone!

Can't wait for all the crying about Big Spod, especially all of the crying about Big Spod that fails to mention all of the non-gigantic rocks in the anom.


There's always a flood of ranting from people who only seem to discover the forums when they're linked to from the patch notes.

Doesn't do much for the quality of feedback Ugh
Grognard Commissar
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#855 - 2017-03-14 16:35:26 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Coelomate Tian wrote:
Happy patch day everyone!

Can't wait for all the crying about Big Spod, especially all of the crying about Big Spod that fails to mention all of the non-gigantic rocks in the anom.


There's always a flood of ranting from people who only seem to discover the forums when they're linked to from the patch notes.

Doesn't do much for the quality of feedback Ugh

i wouldn't mind the changes to rock size as much, if they didn't also nerf the drone yield and cycle time (it's really a nerf, whatever fozzie says). my actual yield is maybe one hulk now. and that's with a sentient drone nav.
i get that they needed to be nerfed because *reasons*, but i think the changes combined are too much.
Grognard Commissar
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#856 - 2017-03-14 16:39:05 UTC
starmaser darkborn wrote:
I don't fly rorqs but I feel like the problems have other solutions. For example:

- Make EWAR not operable during PANIC

- Make a Cyno not usable during PANIC or you cant PANIC while using a cyno

- Raise the stenosis time multiplier to something obscene

Those would be probable solutions to the problems. Rorqs are capitals with little dps or combat ability (as far as I know), having the PANIC work while moving or transporting is a necessity in my opinion.

Thoughts?

people use cynos with panic to jump in help
Argyle Henderson
Assault Squadron Indigo
Apocalypse Now.
#857 - 2017-03-14 17:07:33 UTC
Ghillie Troll Askold wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We knew there would be inertia involved in player behavior that might cause the ship to remain underused if it ended up “just barely good enough”.

*makes the ship “just barely good enough”*
*quote edited to more realistically reflect the upcoming changes



I also wonder, with increased travel time, rock size, and rock separation, I'm actually curious at this point if the Rorqual will even be able to out-mine a single hulk.

Even if it was a situation where the only nerf was the cycle time and yeild changes, the Rorqual would still mine ~2 hulks worth of ore. In practicality it's likely to be closer to 1.25-1.75 Hulks. Given fuel costs, at that point, it might even be more profitable to field ONE SINGLE HULK.

So, in order to fly a Rorqual and use Excavator drones, I could either invest ~1b in skillbooks, several months of training time, and another ~8-9b in ship and fitting. That's about 9-10b, all things considered.

Alternatively, I could invest a month of training time into getting two characters into Hulks, pay less than 150m for all of the required skills, and then have two Hulks. PLEX cost inluded, 2.5b. That's two hulk characters and three months of PLEX for each of them for the same price as a Rorqual, not even counting the PLEX or money spent on injecting or training the Rorqual pilot.

Please explain how that sounds like balanced risk vs. reward.


^^^THIS^^^

It's clear that CCP's love of scumbag gankers and their PROFIT MOTIVE are all that matters here.
Ares Splinter
Faceless.
Dracarys.
#858 - 2017-03-14 17:32:18 UTC
btw an if you now Calulate the Cost of heavy water into the neff its alot more then 50% they stole from us..
krakinette
State War Academy
Caldari State
#859 - 2017-03-14 17:40:21 UTC
Nice patch

Known with a 10B rorqual you make 100 M per hour great mining ships of EVE LOL

Continu to make patch after time you make patch for nobody!!!!
Ares Splinter
Faceless.
Dracarys.
#860 - 2017-03-14 17:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Splinter
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Tribal Trogdor wrote:
Quote:
Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.
So...if you go in and jam a rorq before he panics, he cant panic? that sounds like a pretty bad fix to the problem here
I mean he can panic, just not PANIC Blink



Never in the 10 years played i have felt so much hate to the ider people in EVE its going to damm ruin the point of paying for the game


RORQ =250 mil per hour price 14 bil
vs Carrier 180-200 mil price 2 bil

WTF
RORQ 100 mil hour vs Carrier 180-200

WTF 14 rorq bil vs 2 bil carrier RISK REWARD IN MY AS CCP TRY TO SCAM US.

WEAKE the hell up before you start to lose player we already have more people say they are leaving the game becouse of this ..

Eter fire the ideer mann or use the damm brain sorry to said it this time CCP relly fail ..