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Is this game worth investing hundreds of hours into for me?

Author
TheFonz AYYYYY
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2017-02-26 22:39:51 UTC
Glad the forums use my amazing character as a picture lol

Before I invest too much time into this game, I want to know if it's even worth it for someone like me. I play Counter Strike and Dark Souls III mostly, and I love the Team Work and that amazing feeling of beating a tough challenge both those games give. Runescape is cool too but not as action packed as I'd like.

The only problem is those games are incredibly infuriating sometimes (besides Runescape) so I started looking for a more mellow mmo type game that isn't just "click enemy to attack: the game". this game looks really cool but the tutorial is really making this game feel like the type of game I'm not looking for.

Well, with that information, all I'm asking is if this is the game I'm looking for. This and Final Fantasy 14 were my top choices. I just want a mellow, non anger inducing game I can play with friends if I want to. If this isn't what I'm looking for, recommendations would be great.



AYYYYYYY, The Fonz
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2017-02-26 23:13:19 UTC
No

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.

Otago Dogwalker
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-02-26 23:16:42 UTC
Hi and welcome.

That isn't a question anyone other than you can answer.

The game caters for all..PvP (not mellow), mining (very mellow), space tourism, market trading, whatever you like. Oh, it's FREE to try, so you have nowt to lose eh?
Jump on in, you'll never leave anyway. Smile

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#4 - 2017-02-26 23:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
With reference to non anger inducing, that depends on you. Like CS, Eve is a PvP game; one with a full loot mechanic which means that when your ship explodes some of the contents also explode. The surviving contents go to whomever gets them first; the game doesn't give it back to you. Furthermore activities which are forbidden in other games, like scamming and extortion, are allowed here.

In Eve you will lose ships, people can, and will, kill you any place, any time and for any or no reason, this is allowed.

If you take it personally then Eve is not the game for you, you will end up angry and make yourself look silly.
If you regard your ships as expendable, as in they going to explode eventually, then yes Eve is quite possibly the game for you.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#5 - 2017-02-27 01:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
There is often baiting and trolling in local and sometimes even in the help channels when mods are not present.

But whether something is anger inducing is really a matter of personal emotional investment. You can't have the highs without the lows, so Eve is very much about enforcing the lows by making loss matter, so that success can be just as rewarding. You can be as mellow as you want doing mining, but if you spend several months earing enough isk to buy a ship, then CODE blows that ship up before you even complete your first haul, then you might feel an emotional response, especially if you felt a real sense of accomplishment about saving up the isk in the first place.

I've rage quit a number of times and then log in the next day or so. The number one rule of Eve is don't fly what you can't afford to lose. But this isn't just a money reference. If my ship gets blown up, and I'm spinning in station in my pod, without a ready re-ship and it looks like I'll have to assemble my ship by flying my corvette around to collect mods to assemble at station, in NULL through bubble camps and other such nonsense, then yea, sometimes I'll just quit for the day when I realize it will probably take a few hours to assemble a ship worth flying.

Personally, before I invest hundreds of hours in a game, I want to be assured the game will be around for me to invest hundreds of hours into. Eve is aging very well. So I can say with a relative amount of assurance that Eve will still be here a decade from now.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#6 - 2017-02-27 02:27:31 UTC  |  Edited by: MadMuppet
You have to ask?

No, seriously though, this game is a combination of happiness and pure abject rage.

I only play anymore for the laughs, and to spread my knowledge to other that are wanted to play this adventure to experience it (see signature).

If you want to experience getting your head bashed in, repeatedly, but are smart enough to learn from the experience and mellow enough to enjoy the lesson, the welcome to the sandbox. Open a Quafe and kick back to the mayhem that is about to confront you.

If you are the type to throw the controller across the room because you lost a whole 45 minutes of play... go elsewhere. This game will kick you in the @$$, chop off bits of your emotional anatomy, pure-a it in a blender, and then sell it on eBay for $500. There is no running back from the graveyard to recover your stuff.

Did you just spend three weeks building something, or working to buy something, and then lose it in 30 seconds? WELCOME TO THE CLUB! Want to cry about it on the forum? Welcome to another club, the club of war decs and bounties... Oh sure, you can cry about it and threaten to leave... but everybody will laugh at you and show you to the door... all the while CCP repeatedly giving you the EULA or non-moderation warnings... and everybody else laughs.

You still here?

You sure?

OK, so now a bit of reality: I work in IT. I often ask new hires if they play video games. Often they say yes. When I ask what games, they tell me.

Here lies my interest. A person that says yes... they often expound on the games they play.

Once in a while, I find an MMO player.

What MMOs?

Most say WoW, some say various, but I just nod and smile and try to carry on with the interivew...

But often, the hardcore guys say, "Wait, what do YOU play !?!?"

Pause. Smirk. I look them in the eyes and say, "Eve Online"

I wish I could have a camera. Half look at me like I'm a sadist, the other half look at me in fear.

I WAS THERE!

LOL!

-MadMuppet

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2017-02-27 03:11:08 UTC
For starters the tutorials are not at all indicative of how this game is.

As far as "investing" 100s of hours I think that is a silly question.

You will need to get a feel for this game and that can be hard to do as a brand new player without friends so I think I understand what you are getting at.

My recommendation would be to make friends and get involved in some group activities. This game is all about the company that you keep so to speak.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#8 - 2017-02-27 03:49:43 UTC
TheFonz AYYYYY wrote:
I love the Team Work and that amazing feeling of beating a tough challenge both those games give.

The only problem is those games are incredibly infuriating sometimes (besides Runescape) so I started looking for a more mellow mmo type game that isn't just "click enemy to attack: the game". this game looks really cool but the tutorial is really making this game feel like the type of game I'm not looking for.

I just want a mellow, non anger inducing game I can play with friends if I want to.

Eve gives an even more amazing feeling when it comes to beating tough challenges. however it can be anger inducing and not very mellow on the path to success, also future success isn't guaranteed.

what your personality is like and your personal threshold for "anger" or "mellow" will really be the determining factor. there are a lot of things that I think are pretty mellow, but are very anger inducing to others. There is also dramatic swings between slow and maybe even a little boring and super fast paced.

What specifically about the tutorial is making you think you won't like it?

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
#9 - 2017-02-27 05:47:21 UTC
ah DS3, remember the feeling when you died when having alot of souls, remember how it feels. now remember the feeling when you tried to collect those souls again, you died and lost those souls permanently... remember the anger and frustration.

if you're ok with that then welcome to EvE.

btw, final fanstasy xiv is easy. stay away from legacy servers, alot of whiners and self-entitled pricks.

Just Add Water

Hakawai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-02-27 07:40:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
Griefers fit right in to EVE.

More generally, EVE has some odd characteristics for a PvP game:

  • "Fair/balanced" PvP (both sides equal chance to win) is rare in EVE at any scale. This excludes a lot of PvPers from other games, especially modern multiplayer RTS games: the transition from "fair PvP as a game design objective" to "unbalanced PvP as a natural emergent property of the game" can be jarring.
  • Unusually slow start up due to the need for basic skills (in-game Skill Points). This can be dealt with by spending RL cash though
  • PvP consumes in-game resources, so you have to "pay" ISK to PvP. This has a much greater effect when you're starting up than later on. Again, it can be dealt with by spending RL cash
  • Small-scale PvP fighting is simpler than other games, because any one "tactical" ship will have relatively few things it can do. This isn't an issue with larger battles of course - it just means each side fields a mix of ship types
  • There's a lot less actual fighting than any other modern PvP game I've ever played, or even heard of. This is a side effect of the lack of fair fights. You can easily get into fights if you're sure to lose of course, but this is, unsurprisingly, not a popular style of play. (queue stupid comment about suicide ganking being an exception in 3, 2, 1 .... /lol)

On the plus side, much of the "territory" is "player-ownable space", so there are large-scale wars and battles between player organizations (Corps and Alliances) over territory. This is less common than EVE's press would suggest, but it's still a definite high point compared to most current MMOs.
Lizard Terelli
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2017-02-27 14:57:54 UTC
@teamwork
Heres some clips showcasing how people play and how they interact with each other. Do note that every ship/purple icon you see is a player.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5pezld/never_afk_test_alliance_vs_tethered_carrier/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5p41ll/are_you_in_panic_mode_yes_i_am_fucking_panicking/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4wet4s/test_alliance_carrier_down_to_test_alliance/
(yes, these are grown men)

Pandemic Horde VS KarmaFleet
https://youtu.be/xM39cK3b24Y

HORDE DRUNK FLEET
https://youtu.be/llyEyFzYqV8

If you wade down in the forums, you'll read some people saying "EvE ruined other MMOs for me" cause there's nothing like it.
I hope you seriously try our community out. And yeah, join other people cause of people things/reactions (as highlighted in the vids).
Blood Retributor
#12 - 2017-02-27 17:36:51 UTC
TheFonz AYYYYY wrote:

The only problem is those games are incredibly infuriating sometimes


Here is a time-saver tip for you: The very foundation of Eve Online is CONFLICT. Eve gameplay design is conflict-driven.

The moment you undock your ship someone might want to destroy it, for fun or profit. To undock (purchase/build, fit) that ship you will have to invest game time or real life money (unless you decide to fly only the initial/basic corvette).

If you manufacture or trade without ever undocking you can be scammed ( a legal feature of Eve gameplay) out of everything you own.

I have never played any other MMOs but judging by the information on these forums Rage-Quitting is a "thing" for a good number of Eve players, new and old.

If you can handle conflict without anger, then Eve is your game. Otherwise look elsewhere (I am referring to your question regarding the "non anger inducing game").

Fly safe (in EVE or elsewhere)!

One step at a time ...

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2017-02-27 18:51:49 UTC
EvE is more a "second life" simulation than a classic game. Few rules are set, more like RL physics shapes our reality, you are free to do what you want within that boundaries. You have to find your path and survive in a persistent and player-driven world. Things matter here as much as things can matter in a virtual world.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Ajem Hinken
WarFear Gaming
#14 - 2017-02-27 23:32:20 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:

I wish I could have a camera. Half look at me like I'm a sadist, the other half look at me in fear.

Aren't we all to some degree? Just the other day I was thinking about podding someone because they failed to suicide gank my exploration fit Heron.

*In Jita, without smartbombs xD

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6875494#post6875494 - Ship mounted explosives. Because explosions and Jita chaos.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2017-02-28 00:04:42 UTC
I have 4 annually subscribed accounts.

I recently joined a nulsec corporation after about 4 years in hisec, and though life is a bit harder, I found I was having a lot more fun, even when I was doing mundane things.

EvE is more about the people you associate with than spaceships.
Orakkus
Southern Cross Monopoly
Flying Dangerous
#16 - 2017-02-28 00:11:09 UTC
No, it is only worth a 1000 hours of your time...

Whereas once you reach that amount of time, you will quit in angst and frustration and you will happily give me all your stuffz.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2017-02-28 00:27:32 UTC
Hakawai wrote:

  • Unusually slow start up due to the need for basic skills (in-game Skill Points). This can be dealt with by spending RL cash though

  • I can only speak from my own experience and I assume that there are better gamers out there that "get the hang" of game faster than I do. That being said I think that overal lack of personal knowledge and experience of the player holds new players back far more than lack of skill points and I think that Suitonia's Eveiseasy youtube channel pretty much proves that.

    From my personal experience I can say that for my first year of playing this game certainly my lack of knowledge and experience was by far the single largest factor holding me back. And I started this game back when you used to have to spend the first 6 months training mostly learning skills. Even then I found that I gained new abilities in game at a rate far greater than I could keep up with.

    But the main reason that I want to contest this point is that I see new players using Skill Points as an excuse far too often. To get good at this game you need experience and to get experience you need to loose ships. The best thing that you can do to advance yourself in this game is just go out there and loose ships and learn from each encounter.

    If a new player were to sell a PLEX for isk and use that isk for ships he / she could buy well over 300 fully fit and PvP ready frigates for the isk he'd get from that one PLEX. Loosing those 300 frigates would help the new player far far more than if you used the PLEX to buy skill points.

    To the new players reading this if you are waiting for skill points to train or blaming losses on lack of skill points then IMHO I think that you are playing Eve wrong.

    Hakawai wrote:

  • PvP consumes in-game resources, so you have to "pay" ISK to PvP. This has a much greater effect when you're starting up than later on. Again, it can be dealt with by spending RL cash


  • While this is no doubt true there is no reason that new players should have to flip the bill for ship losses by themselves. Eve is a true MMO in that it intentionally incentivizes group efforts and punishes solo play.

    There are numerous ways for new players to get free ships or have the cost of the ships refunded through SRPs. I know I had people helping me out when I first started up. Again I say this from my own opinion but to me if you are trying to learn to play this game solo then you are playing Eve wrong.

    Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

    Vortexo VonBrenner
    Doomheim
    #18 - 2017-02-28 02:54:54 UTC
    If you let yourself get frustrated easily, then this is probably not a game you would enjoy. EvE rewards persistence EvE is more of a hobby than game anyway, really. As with any hobby, if you enjoy doing it then it is serving it's purpose and is worth doing.

    As for mellow...well...mostly no. There are players in EvE who do perhaps more mellow things like mine asteroids, do industry (building things), run missions or planetary interaction (harvesting resources from planets) and there are players in EvE who enjoy more intense things such as ship pvp in it's many forms or wormholes, etc.

    One of the best things about EvE Online is that it is single-shard. All the aforementioned players can interact with each other. All the EvE players in the world (except China, for real-world reasons) are in the same universe with each other.

    Try it out, you might really like it. If you don't, that's fine, not everyone does. Thanks for checking our hobby out. Just please if you do decide to move on, don't be one of those who gripes and complains loudly about it.

    Best luck!


    Hakawai
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #19 - 2017-02-28 08:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
    ergherhdfgh wrote:
    Hakawai wrote:

  • Unusually slow start up due to the need for basic skills (in-game Skill Points). This can be dealt with by spending RL cash though

  • [...]
    But the main reason that I want to contest this point is that I see new players using Skill Points as an excuse far too often. To get good at this game you need experience and to get experience you need to loose ships. The best thing that you can do to advance yourself in this game is just go out there and loose ships and learn from each encounter.

    I think the SP problem has been largely forgotten by the majority of experienced players, but that doesn't mean it's not there.
    It's more "fit" than combat efficiency, but the net effect is that low-SP T1/T1 ships are a lot weaker than high-SP T1/T2 ships built to the same design. And most new PvP gamers entering EVE know (better than most EVE players I think) that just a few extra percent in offense and defense makes a very big difference to the chance of winning against an otherwise similarly equipped opponent.

    The obvious "adaptive" solution is to be patient, but it's not a realistic requirement on new players in 2017.
    ergherhdfgh wrote:
    Hakawai wrote:

  • PvP consumes in-game resources, so you have to "pay" ISK to PvP. This has a much greater effect when you're starting up than later on. Again, it can be dealt with by spending RL cash

  • While this is no doubt true there is no reason that new players should have to flip the bill for ship losses by themselves. Eve is a true MMO in that it intentionally incentivizes group efforts and punishes solo play.

    There are numerous ways for new players to get free ships or have the cost of the ships refunded through SRPs. I know I had people helping me out when I first started up. Again I say this from my own opinion but to me if you are trying to learn to play this game solo then you are playing Eve wrong.

    Lots of things are possible for new players, including finding an honest and helpful Corp early on, but it's not likely. EVE doesn't actually incentivize group play at all. As with most of EVE, it's "all stick and no carrot".

    IMO the root cause of this the "Corp problem" is an avoidable part of a wider game design issue, but it's so unlikely that CCP will try to address it I don't think it's worth discussing.

    The most realistic solution to "pay to PvP" and the SP issue is to be patient, fly cheap ships, buy PLEXes as income substitutes, and use some of the time that patience buys you to find a decent Corp. Some people will do this, but most won't - the average gamer is RL-cash poor, impatient, and likes bling.
    ergherhdfgh
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #20 - 2017-03-01 03:36:51 UTC
    Hakawai wrote:

    I think the SP problem has been largely forgotten by the majority of experienced players, but that doesn't mean it's not there.
    It's more "fit" than combat efficiency, but the net effect is that low-SP T1/T1 ships are a lot weaker than high-SP T1/T2 ships built to the same design. And most new PvP gamers entering EVE know (better than most EVE players I think) that just a few extra percent in offense and defense makes a very big difference to the chance of winning against an otherwise similarly equipped opponent.

    The obvious "adaptive" solution is to be patient, but it's not a realistic requirement on new players in 2017.

    Granted I'm not the PvP expert here so I am posing this more as a question that a statement of fact. I do understand that fitting what you would like to fit early on can be tight but if you are smart with your fits you can get around that without having to wast a bunch of slots on fitting modules.

    That being said... I am told and have experienced Eve to be more of a rock, paper, scissors thing than a strait up slug fest. On top of that fair and even fights almost never happen in Eve. Add into that the success that Suitonia has shown again and again on alts with only a few hundred thousand skill points and I'd say that you are giving too much credit to skill points.

    Sure 5% difference might be a big deal in a game where you have roughly even characters as far as numbers and skill and power and "moves" goes. However way too often I've seen a 3 v 2 turn into an 8 v 3 which then someone lites a cyno and local suddenly gets a scroll bar. maybe in FW you might get some fairly even fights from time to time but it's extremely rare that I even hear of a close to fair fight in Eve much less see one. There is a saying in this game "if you find yourself involved in a fair fight something went horribly wrong".

    From my personal experience I can say that I thought much like yourself when I was new. Then after playing the game for a couple years I made an alt and started all over running pirate faction missions in null sec. I had a much much easier time on that low skill point alt at the end of it's first month than I did on my first character at the end of my first year.

    Having been lurking in the NC Q&A for several years now I can say I see two types of stories repeated from time to time. The first one is the character that thinks that they can buy their way to being good in this game and buy either skill points or bling or both and then get ass-pounded and come in here crying about how the game is not fair. Or the other one is about vets who bring IRL friends into the game and when the new player whines about skill points the two switch and the new player plays on the vet's character and vice versa and the vet still wins.

    I could go over this a million different ways but at the end of the day it still comes down to you need experience to be good at this game. Now you can sit around and wait for skill points and then go from being a player with no PvP experience on a character with low skill points to being a player with no PvP experience on a character with higher skill points but still not have a clue what you are doing.

    The best advice that I feel I can give a new player is that if you are looking to win as soon as possible then you will struggle with Eve. However if you are looking to learn as much as possible in as short of a time frame as possible then you will get good fast.
    No one ever gets great at anything by seeking out the easy path. People get good when the jump into situations where the odds are stacked against them and fight like they intend to win.

    To me the key is in not attaching emotional neediness to specific outcomes. You go into a situation and give it all that you have. Some of the best people in the world at a given thing get that way by being disappointed when they can't find someone better than them. They always seek out someone better to learn from and when they start having problems finding people better than themselves they almost get sad. That's the attitude that will get you far in Eve or anything competitive for that matter.

    TL;dr
    Keep seeking to loose ships to players better than yourself and with each fight it will get progressively harder to accomplish that.

    Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

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